2146 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Why make a reaper? Why not?

Because it's logistically impossible.

Something already made a fleet.

Huh?

We already make nukes. Is Cerberus going to make them now? No. They couldn't. But later? Why not.  I mean, if you can make a reapers that you can control, what's stopping you?

If a species whose sole purpose was to build a Reaper for 2 years, and didn't even get anywhere near the goal, how the hell is Cerberus going to accomplish that?  And the ENTIRE PLOT is to stop the Collectors from wiping out humanity?  This thinking is absolute idiocy.

Sure making one involves lots of people dying, but what if you can find other solutions? Besides, Cerberus is the type to sacrifice others for TIM future of humanity. He already says he's going to use that tech for the fight and beyond.

Speculation, goes against TIM's motives, and is still, logistically impossible.

Just think of it like Metal Gear. No matter how many times Solid Snakes destroys one, there will always be another, and they are becoming more deadly. And in the future, everyone has one, and they are everywhere.

Yes, but Metal Gears don't require MILLIONS OF LIVES in order to be constructed.

Your argument is absurd and after the fact toward the real threat: The Reapers.

[TMA LIVE]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Again it doesn't matter. Cerberus future bad deeds don't matter unless they result in a "Reapers win" scenario that could've been avoided by not giving the base the them. In that case, we'd have to weigh the risk of "Reapers win" by not having the tech from the base against the risk of "Reapers win" by Cerberus incompetence. Since the Reapers already have the advantage - meaning that "Reapers win" is the default if we don't get a tech advance from some source - I count the latter significantly less likely.

For what the future holds: once Reaper technology is known by anyone, it's known by all, eventually. You can't put the genie back into the bottle. I consider that scenario desirable. Reaper technology must be understood, not just used. Galactic civilization has stagnated because it was too lazy to try to understand the mass relays, and thus developed on the path the Reapers desired. We don't want that. But we also don't want to close off paths of technological development just because we're afraid of change.
 

Well, supposedly, EDI already downloaded data that might be able to give weak points to a Reaper, plus maybe some data on how to hack them, or prevent them from hacking your ships.

And whatever power you're giving to Cerberus, it's just Cerberus and maybe the Alliance (if you convince them to work together and use the tech). You're not equipping the Council fleet unless TIM gives the tech to everyone, and saves the best bits for himself and his vision of humanity. If that doesn't happen, then pretty much, you're just making one army stronger for the Reaper fight.

Yes. But one army stronger for the Reaper fight is better than no army stronger. Also, keeping the base leaves the possibility open that the knowledge will be more widely distributed, though Cerberus likely wants to keep it exclusive. 
The quoted paragraph about tech distribution, however, applied to an after-the-Reapers scenario. In the long run, you can't keep knowledge like that exclusive.

Again, but a lot of this is more based on "I believe we are all going to die, unless we get a tech upgrade." And I don't think Cerberus, who's now 50% screw up by the Turian attack, is manufacturing enough goods for everyone to use. I mean, how many secret reaper tech ships can you make in secret? Now tell me how much reaper tech stuff you can make in secret? How much money and time do you have for all this to happen? Now, when the big secret is revealed, how much time will it take for everyone to make and equip there own reaper tech?

We're already on a time limit. There isn't much time to make enough for everyone. Just one fleet at most, unless the writers want to bull**** it. 

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:04 .

[TMA LIVE]

smudboy wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Why make a reaper? Why not?

Because it's logistically impossible.

Something already made a fleet.

Huh?

We already make nukes. Is Cerberus going to make them now? No. They couldn't. But later? Why not.  I mean, if you can make a reapers that you can control, what's stopping you?

If a species whose sole purpose was to build a Reaper for 2 years, and didn't even get anywhere near the goal, how the hell is Cerberus going to accomplish that?  And the ENTIRE PLOT is to stop the Collectors from wiping out humanity?  This thinking is absolute idiocy.

Sure making one involves lots of people dying, but what if you can find other solutions? Besides, Cerberus is the type to sacrifice others for TIM future of humanity. He already says he's going to use that tech for the fight and beyond.

Speculation, goes against TIM's motives, and is still, logistically impossible.

Just think of it like Metal Gear. No matter how many times Solid Snakes destroys one, there will always be another, and they are becoming more deadly. And in the future, everyone has one, and they are everywhere.

Yes, but Metal Gears don't require MILLIONS OF LIVES in order to be constructed.

Your argument is absurd and after the fact toward the real threat: The Reapers.

1) Because it's logistically impossible.

How? We're already bringing dead people back to life.

2) Huh?

Reapers are organic machines, right? Well, then something made them.

3) If a species whose sole purpose was to build a Reaper for 2 years, and didn't even get anywhere near the goal, how the hell is Cerberus going to accomplish that?  And the ENTIRE PLOT is to stop the Collectors from wiping out humanity?  This thinking is absolute idiocy.

I don't know, maybe because the Collectors were a bunch of ****** drones, with maybe only 300 of them, plus one ship. And you're not making reapers against humanity. you're making them "for" humanity. There's your new warships.

4) Speculation, goes against TIM's motives, and is still, logistically impossible.

TIM's motives are whatever the hell he wants to tell you. Just like how Liara's working for the Shadow Broker. Only NOW that is true.

5) Yes, but Metal Gears don't require MILLIONS OF LIVES in order to be constructed.

If they're not human, I think he'd give it a shot after the fact. Again, why not?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:13 .

[Mehow_pwn]

I kept the base.. and that was the one of the renegde choice I always do.... Just like sleeping with Morrigan



Reason for that is I think it will help in the fight agiesnt the reapers somehow... Maybe we would finally find out who that reaper talking to collecters is thanks to the base.



I also find it usefull for the benefit of humanatiy.... Just like TIM said

[TMA LIVE]

Getting the tech is always going to help against the reapers more then destroying it. I'll never argue with that. I'm just saying, after the fact, expect a future consequence.

[Zulu_DFA]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

tallinn wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OOC or not (I think it is not), Miranda's input on the C-Base choice is purely emotional. And all the C-Base choice is about "emotions vs. reason". So, yes, Base Destroyers are irrational. And they only prove it further by such statements as "emotions are rational".

No, it is not "emotions vs. reason" (I explained already that reason has no value without emotion) but "evaluation vs. facts". If one relies on facts only he ignores all the risks he is taking. Evaluation throws in all the stuff one is not sure of. Makes better decisions in general. Outside of chess games and math problems one never has complete informaiton on any issue that needs a decision. Then one has to go with best bet.

So the reasoning based on the usefulness of an intact base is valid only so far as you can trust TIM. The game does not offer to hand over the base to someone more trustworthy (which is a plot hole).

No it's not. If TIM gets the base and he can't be trusted, you can always take it away from him later - in fact, you can do that anyway now you have the Reaper IFF and can lead a fleet there at any time. If the base is useful and you destroy it, you can't un-destroy it later. As for how far you can trust TIM: do you think he'd work for the Reapers? I admit I'd thought that possible until I read Retribution, but he doesn't. That's all there is to it. All other considerations are contingent on the defeat of the Reapers and thus secondary.

As for emotion vs. reason: emotion lets you see Cerberus as the primary evil, because you can touch and feel it and see the consequences for single humans on your own. The thousands of deaths from the Collector attacks are more distant, and the Reapers are emotionally very far away, more like a natural disaster that you feel you can simply endure and move on. Cerberus evokes rage and prods you to action, the Reapers, if anything, fear, prodding you to run away and stick your head in the sand in denial. Only reason tells you there is no enduring it this time, only reason tells you that in the face of the Reaper threat, Cerberus' evil is insignificant (and won't that statement evoke a cascade of denial from people?). So, yes, emotion vs. reason is pretty much what this is about.

Very well said! I think you're correct in pointing out that some of the views around here that Cerberus is the primary evil is because its more person and you encountered them in various missions in ME1. I believe this represents a failure on BioWare's part to impress upon you just how much worse they are than Cerberus. The prothean beacon vision would have been a prime opportunity for show this in graphic detail but I guess BioWare didn't want to creep anyone out and detract from the experience.

I think sometimes, it is BioWare's intent to portray Cerberus as beyond evil, even by doing such ******-poor stuff as "Overlord" DLC (it's an IMHO, no need to get worked up here!). It's quite realistic that the tangible Cerberus' "evils" can be perceived as more threatenning than some abstract pure eternal evil of the Reapers.

Kinda gives a slight hope that the "pure" paragons are in for some biting in the arse in the end. Unless they switch on their brains. For a change.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:47 .

[Schattenkeil]

I seriously doubt I can say anything that hasn't said before, but since the thread is still here and doesn't seem to be going away any time soon I might as well put my oppinion into it as well.

It seems like a symbol of Cerberus' underestimation that the human reaper only awakes after you decide whether you wanna destroy or not destroy the base.

I destroyed the base because I considered the base itself dangerous. There evidently is a dead reaper inside of it - the whole thing is practically a reaper temple. Every second anyone spends there makes them subject to indoctrination. It holds vast reaper forces. Research might yield interesting results as to how to fight the reapers more effectively, but it seems a lot more likely that it will only result in re-establishing the base and changing the iff protocol, so that no one ever gets back there. The base may be an assset to humanity but it certainly is an asset to the reapers. Every attempt on such reaper technology has lead whoever was researching being succumbed to the reapers. Even remarkable and admirable people like Lady Benezia. The base a threat to us, but an asset to the enemy.

It's not like it was impossible to study reaper technology another way - he can always study the Citadel or mass relays or the keepers. That's not remotely as dangerous.

As for the idiologic comments that Shepard gives... I am not sure whether it helps honor the remembrance of all the people who came to a horrible end there to just destroy the base. However, I would certainly no exactly feel comfortable with this base in Cerberus hands, even if the reapers don't take it back. Miranda may not see a problem with it, but using the dead as shock troops in form of husks is wrong even if it works. I am not sure whether I really want him to know how this absorbing humans into giant battle monsters, the reapers, works. When I started out Mass Effect 2 I hated the Illusive Man, thought of him of a dangerous madman with dellusions of grandure. Eventually I realized that even he has limits and there are things Cerberus wouldn't do, only that those limits were far beyond mine. I changed my attitude from hating him to disagreeing with him about a lot of things.

I was a little surprised when really everyone in my crew agreed to what I had done, I thought Miranda would disagree... However the bestcomment best matching my own attitude was Samara's: He thinks he can control it, but he can't.

Modifié par Schattenkeil, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:18 .

[Ieldra]

TMA LIVE wrote...
Why make a reaper? Why not? Something already made a fleet. We already make nukes. Is Cerberus going to make them now? No. They couldn't. But later? Why not.  I mean, if you can make a reapers that you can control, what's stopping you? Sure making one involves lots of people dying, but what if you can find other solutions? What if you can make one without organic flesh? Besides, Cerberus is the type to sacrifice others for TIM's future of humanity. He already says he's going to use that tech for the fight and beyond.

Just think of it like Metal Gear. No matter how many times Solid Snakes destroys one, there will always be another, and they are becoming more deadly. And in the future, everyone has one, and they are everywhere.

If (a) you don't need to sacrifice humans to make a Reaper, and ( you can control the Reaper you make, then a Reaper is nothing more than a weapon. If everyone has one, the balance is maintained. Just like in the 99% of history where regional stability was maintained by a military balance.

If a Reaper is more than a weapon, then the question of whether it's desirable to build one is more philosophical. Considering you likely don't want´the cycle to continue or re-start, it's desirable that none is ever built. But you won't be able to control that absolutely. Just like you won't be able to control the kind of genetic engineering untertaken by a species on its own members. That's as it should be. Deal with that problem once it becomes one. Now, defeating the attacking Reaper fleet is what matters. In WWII, building and using nuclear bombs was considered necessary to win at an acceptable cost in allied lives. Would the world be better without them? No idea, really, since I don't know what would've taken their place, but they'd have been developed anyway at some time, and we've adapted to their existence and haven't destroyed our planet yet. We'll adapt to Reaper technology as well.

[TMA LIVE]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
Why make a reaper? Why not? Something already made a fleet. We already make nukes. Is Cerberus going to make them now? No. They couldn't. But later? Why not.  I mean, if you can make a reapers that you can control, what's stopping you? Sure making one involves lots of people dying, but what if you can find other solutions? What if you can make one without organic flesh? Besides, Cerberus is the type to sacrifice others for TIM's future of humanity. He already says he's going to use that tech for the fight and beyond.

Just think of it like Metal Gear. No matter how many times Solid Snakes destroys one, there will always be another, and they are becoming more deadly. And in the future, everyone has one, and they are everywhere.

If (a) you don't need to sacrifice humans to make a Reaper, and ( you can control the Reaper you make, then a Reaper is nothing more than a weapon. If everyone has one, the balance is maintained. Just like in the 99% of history where regional stability was maintained by a military balance.

If a Reaper is more than a weapon, then the question of whether it's desirable to build one is more philosophical. Considering you likely don't want´the cycle to continue or re-start, it's desirable that none is ever built. But you won't be able to control that absolutely. Just like you won't be able to control the kind of genetic engineering untertaken by a species on its own members. That's as it should be. Deal with that problem once it becomes one. Now, defeating the attacking Reaper fleet is what matters. In WWII, building and using nuclear bombs was considered necessary to win at an acceptable cost in allied lives. Would the world be better without them? No idea, really, since I don't know what would've taken their place, but they'd have been developed anyway at some time, and we've adapted to their existence and haven't destroyed our planet yet. We'll adapt to Reaper technology as well.

You're right that you won't be able to completely control that. After all, (if what some people think is true based off the image in Kasumi's greybox), the Alliance is already doing something that involves a Reaper, and possibly building one based of the pieces of Sov. But if I can try, I'd rather try and not make a future where Cerberus has Reapers, and uses them to take over other alien species.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .

[smudboy]

[quote]TMA LIVE wrote...

1) Because it's logistically impossible.

How? We're already bringing dead people back to life.
[/quote]
Irrelevant.  It takes millions of people to build a Reaper.

[quote]
2) Huh?

Reapers are organic machines, right? Well, then something made them.
[/quote]
So?

[quote]
3) If a species whose sole purpose was to build a Reaper for 2 years, and didn't even get anywhere near the goal, how the hell is Cerberus going to accomplish that?  And the ENTIRE PLOT is to stop the Collectors from wiping out humanity?  This thinking is absolute idiocy.

I don't know, maybe because the Collectors were a bunch of ****** drones, with maybe only 300 of them, plus one ship. And you're not making reapers against humanity. you're making them "for" humanity. There's your new warships.
[/quote]
Still logistically impossible.

Still against what TIM has been trying to do THE ENTIRE GAME: TO STOP COLONY ABDUCTIONS.

Your line of reasoning is completely absurd.
[quote]
4) Speculation, goes against TIM's motives, and is still, logistically impossible.

TIM's motives are whatever the hell he wants to tell you. Just like how Liara's working for the Shadow Broker. Only NOW that is true.
[/quote]
TIM made his motives extremely clear the first few minutes of the damn game.  In fact, the entire game is TIM telling Shepard what to do.  Because HUMAN COLONIES ARE DISAPPEARING.

There is absolutely no reason for TIM to turn around and do the exact plan the Bad Guys are doing.  It's not going to happen.  It's insane. It would not only make ME 2 a complete joke, but a farce. Maybe a lesson in being the Uber Retard.  TIM's way too intelligent to do something as asinine as this.

[quote]
5) Yes, but Metal Gears don't require MILLIONS OF LIVES in order to be constructed.

If they're not human, I think he'd give it a shot after the fact. Again, why not?[/quote]
[/quote]
Because the base builds a Human Reaper.  That's all the evidence we have of it building as such.  He's here to STOP THE REAPERS, not go on some COMPLETELY BATSH+T INSANE mass racial genocide so he can build some (insert species here) Reaper.

1) It's logistically impossible.
2) Doing so would draw attention to the Council and he'd be stopped.
3) Shepard wouldn't stand for it.
4) It's f*cking retarded.
5) It goes against the plot of ME2.
6) It goes against TIM's motives.
7) Goal 1) Stop Reapers, 2) Beyond.

You got your priorities and your "intelligent brain" mixed up.

[Inverness Moon]

Smudboy, entertaining and always, but correct in this case.

I think that some people are forgetting that reapers aren't built in the interests of having powerful ships (though that is important for their survival), they're built the way they are because of the reapers' strange idea of evolution, ascension, or whatever.

Unless liquefying all those people somehow makes reapers magical, you could build a ship of the same size with the same offenses and defenses without sacrificing millions of lives if you knew how to build a reaper.

TIM knows this and should know that secretly distributing advanced offensive and defensive technology to the Alliance would be the best course of action.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:56 .

[Phaedon]

smudboy wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Oh we're playing what if.

Shepard gets in the SR2. Shepard goes to the Galactic Core through the Omega-4 relay. Shepard brings Joker and EDI along with them. They both destroy all defenses either via superior tactics, firepower or cyberwarfare means. They fire up the Thanix Cannon, and point it at the rather large cylindrical object called the Collector Base.

Problem solved.

Btw, the Thanix Cannon would barely scratch the base. It's actually fires something similar MA projectiles that do the same damage as a cruiser cannon (Medium/Heavy MA projectiles ?).

And you know this how?  The base is defenseless.  It would go the way of the rest of the debris in the system.  The Collector Cruiser had shields and it took a direct hit from the Thanix and went all kablooie.

Sources: Codex, Mass Effect 1:

Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.

The Normandy (a frigate) took out the Collector cruiser in 2 shots. The geth cruisers took out the turian cruisers in 1-2 shots (0:25, 0:35 of ).
The Citadel's structure was not critically damaged during the battle.

Modifié par Phaedon, 16 octobre 2010 - 07:59 .

[TMA LIVE]

smudboy wrote...
(snip)

1) Irrelevant.  It takes millions of people to build a Reaper.

So? You're saying Cerberus won't do it later with aliens? Everything he does is secret, and to help make humanity more powerful.  

2) So?
If one species did it, why not another. Apparently one race was retarded enough to do it (aka, make ships that are made with lots of organic goo). And don't you call Cerberus idiots in your vids?

3) Still against what TIM has been trying to do THE ENTIRE GAME: TO STOP COLONY ABDUCTIONS.

Yes. Stop them so they won't kill him. No ****. But after that's over, then what? You think he's going to be interested in retiring, destroy the data, and making love to some Krogans? Or do you think he's going to keep using that Reaper tech against anything that isn't human?

4)Because the base builds a Human Reaper.  That's all the evidence we have of it building as such.  He's here to STOP THE REAPERS, not go on some COMPLETELY BATSH+T INSANE mass racial genocide so he can build some (insert species here) Reaper

You don't know what he'll learn from studying that. We don't even know why they were making a human reaper, and why it needed human goo. For all we know, he might find a way around it if you give him 10 years.

----

1) It's logistically impossible.
2) Doing so would draw attention to the Council and he'd be stopped.
3) Shepard wouldn't stand for it.
4) It's f*cking retarded.
5) It goes against the plot of ME2.
6) It goes against TIM's motives.
7) Goal 1) Stop Reapers, 2) Beyond.

---

Most of that is has no substance. 1) Anything is possible in any bull**** fiction. 2) The Council did nothing about human's getting attacked right? Plus Saren possibly attacking them? Plus needing more evidence about the Reapers? 3) Shepard's an idiot and one man, and sometimes a tool. 4) The plot is already retarded, and you're arguing this? 6) What plot? Stop bad guys, and give Cerberus power or no power? How is this against that? 6) TIM's motives is to stay alive and advance humanity. How is this against that?  7) Goal stop Reapers and advance humanity.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 16 octobre 2010 - 08:02 .

[Inverness Moon]

TMA LIVE wrote...

So? You're saying Cerberus won't do it later with aliens? Everything he does is secret, and to help make humanity more powerful.

No he won't. First, it is completely unnecessary. Second, he doesn't have the manpower. Third, it would bring too much attention to himself. Fourth, Shepard would know what was going on in an instant.

If one species did it, why not another. Apparently one race was retarded enough to do it (aka, make ships that are made with lots of organic goo). And don't you call Cerberus idiots in your vids?

You have no idea how the reapers were made or whether their creation was intention or not.

Yes. Stop them so they won't kill him. No ****. But after that's over, then what? You think he's going to be interested in retiring, destroy the data, and making love to some Krogans? Or do you think he's going to keep using that Reaper tech against anything that isn't human?

Whatever he is going to do its not going to be something as illogical as building a reaper.

You don't know what he'll learn from studying that. We don't even know why they were making a human reaper, and why it needed human goo. For all we know, he might find a way around it if you give him 10 years.

We already have a general idea of why it needed human goo. And it isn't to power its offenses and defenses.

Don't even feel like responding to the rest.

[Schattenkeil]

Oh, just another remark. What I think will happen to restore the status quo in Mass Effect 3 is, I think, that the Omega-4 relay will indeed shut down and the base will be cut off with anyone on it. To let this decision have a minmal impact on the game but not change the game as a whole you get some more resources, but have to face more enemies in the end, because the reapers took the collector base back and transformed anyone on it into husks or indoctrinated them.

This way the decision still has some effect but the status quo necessary for a game is restored.

Modifié par Schattenkeil, 16 octobre 2010 - 08:25 .

[chris025657]

TMA LIVE wrote...

-snip-

TIM building a Reaper is impractical and counterproductive for a number a reasons.

No matter which species is used to build a Reaper, you would still require millions of them. Any attempt to collect those millions required would cause that species to react with force. This just isn't practical or productive.

Even if TIM somehow accumulates the millions required to build a reaper, then what? The Collector base builds fully sentient Reapers. There would be no way to control it. Add to that there is always the threat of indoctrination, which after the derelict reaper incident, Cerberus is much more aware of. 

If we grant that TIM is somehow able to overcome these problems, he would still only have one Reaper. Having one Reaper fight against the vast Reaper fleet created from countless extinction cycles just isn't a viable strategy.

[smudboy]

[quote]TMA LIVE wrote...

1) Irrelevant.  It takes millions of people to build a Reaper.

So? You're saying Cerberus won't do it later with aliens? Everything he does is secret, and to help make humanity more powerful.  
[/quote]
1) It builds Human Reapers.  Human.  Human.
2) "Why yes, old boy.  We'll just secretly steal millions of people from, oh I don't know, pick a species!  We'll then play 'will it blend?'  And before you know it, we'll have our own Reaper.  No one will see it coming!  Nevermind this'll be after we somehow stop the entire Reaper fleet from destroying us, but by golly, I have a dream."

[quote]
2) So?
If one species did it, why not another. Apparently one race was retarded enough to do it (aka, make ships that are made with lots of organic goo). And don't you call Cerberus idiots in your vids?
[/quote]
If one species, that's been genetically and cybernetically re-engineered AS SLAVES that spent 2 years and not even getting 5% complete while collecting people in a dreadnought, that has been quickly picking up human colonies in the 10s of thousands in the Terminus system?

You're seriously comparing the operations of the Collectors to Cerberus.  Seriously?

Ah?

My brain.  It is hurting.  Hurting!

[quote]
3) Still against what TIM has been trying to do THE ENTIRE GAME: TO STOP COLONY ABDUCTIONS.

Yes. Stop them so they won't kill him. No ****. But after that's over, then what? You think he's going to be interested in retiring, destroy the data, and making love to some Krogans? Or do you think he's going to keep using that Reaper tech against anything that isn't human?
[/quote]
1) If the Reapers are stopped somehow, then TIM might (which is the entire overarching plot)
2) be able to build a Reaper of some sort, somehow. (oh yeah, which is logistically impossible.)

There's no indication that TIM's going to do anything to any species.  Human dominance can mean almost anything.  Between TIM and Kelly, it looks like lots of interspecies sex.

[quote]
4)Because the base builds a Human Reaper.  That's all the evidence we have of it building as such.  He's here to STOP THE REAPERS, not go on some COMPLETELY BATSH+T INSANE mass racial genocide so he can build some (insert species here) Reaper

You don't know what he'll learn from studying that. We don't even know why they were making a human reaper, and why it needed human goo. For all we know, he might find a way around it if you give him 10 years.
[/quote]
Yeah and he could make a really good espresso maker, too, on a GALACTIC SCALE!

Provided it helps stop the Reapers, I don't care what he does with it.  You're comparing the ego and his supposed, technological goals of some bastard to Alien Machine Gods who will DESTROY EVERYTHING, because they 1) Might find technology that , 2) Might help them build a Reaper that, 3) Might not use the normal Reaper building methods, 4) If the actual mysterious, enigmatic and God like Alien Machine gods are somehow stopped, 5) Have enough time to do so.

In case you haven't noticed, Cerberus isn't very good with Big Projects.  There's a greater chance of the thing blowing up in his face before they're able to create their own Machine God o TIM.


[quote]
----

1) It's logistically impossible.
2) Doing so would draw attention to the Council and he'd be stopped.
3) Shepard wouldn't stand for it.
4) It's f*cking retarded.
5) It goes against the plot of ME2.
6) It goes against TIM's motives.
7) Goal 1) Stop Reapers, 2) Beyond.

---

Most of that is has no substance. 1) Anything is possible in any bull**** fiction. 2) The Council did nothing about human's getting attacked right? Plus Saren possibly attacking them? Plus needing more evidence about the Reapers? 3) Shepard's an idiot and one man, and sometimes a tool. 4) The plot is already retarded, and you're arguing this? 6) What plot? Stop bad guys, and give Cerberus power or no power? How is this against that? 6) TIM's motives is to stay alive and advance humanity. How is this against that?  7) Goal stop Reapers and advance humanity.[/quote]
[/quote]
1) Wee!  ME is bullsh+t fiction!  WWEEE HOOOOOO F*CKING HOOOOOOOOO!
2) And where is Cerberus, aka, The Collectors v2.0, going to get all these bodies?  Definitely not the Terminus Systems.  They'll be hitting Goddamned Home Planets, like the Collectors WOULD HAVE DONE (which is also batsh+t insane because it's impossible), as the narrative tells us.  Which means the Council/Alliance would get involved.  Which means they'd crush every Cerberus vessel it comes across.  Which it has been doing anyway.  Aside from the SR2, because of bullsh+t fiction (oh hell.)
3) Can't argue with you there.  Although considering Shepard's warnings to TIM at the end, we know Shepard's intentions should TIM do something bad.
4) So you're arguing more retardation?  Oh great.  Everything's in Psycho-Land, therefore, just keep it going?  Oh, yes, this line of reasoning DEFINITELY WENT THROUGH MY HEAD as soon as I saw Mr. Skeleton.  Why, since everything's in Country of Retarded Men, why not just go the extra mile?  TIM'S GOING TO BUILD A REAPER, WOO!
5) WTF HAPPENED TO FIVE? (Oh right, retard land!)
6) Plot? I don't know.  I don't think there is one, but there tried to be.  It committed suicide.  What's wrong with  giving Cerberus, aka not the Reapers, more power? They're the only ones doing anything.  They brought Shepard back.  They got Shepard a new ship, a crew.  They stopped the Collectors.  Why wouldn't we trust TIM not to become a completely other person and start doing completely insane bullsh+t?
6) Because advancing humanity most definitely does not involve getting in a war with the Council, which they seem to already be on.  Capturing people of any species in the MILLIONS would attract attention.  Cerberus is not an army, it's a small group that would never see this insanely retarded pipe dream get passed any hope of completion.  It's asinine to the max.  It's like someone is telling me how awesome it would be if you got your head chopped off.  It's frightening.
7) Yes.  Guess which one has to happen FIRST?  Speculate on THAT FIRST, then go into Retardo/Bizarro/your brain later, before I have to start cutting to keep me from thinking I'm dreaming.

I'm going to go read some of the Bible now to keep me sane.

[Phaedon]

smudboy, regardless of what you think of the opinion of the person that you are replying to, you don't have the right to insult them in any way. Could we please have a constructive debate? Thanks.

[TMA LIVE]

Inverness Moon wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

So? You're saying Cerberus won't do it later with aliens? Everything he does is secret, and to help make humanity more powerful.

No he won't. First, it is completely unnecessary. Second, he doesn't have the manpower. Third, it would bring too much attention to himself. Fourth, Shepard would know what was going on in an instant.

If one species did it, why not another. Apparently one race was retarded enough to do it (aka, make ships that are made with lots of organic goo). And don't you call Cerberus idiots in your vids?

You have no idea how the reapers were made or whether their creation was intention or not.

Yes. Stop them so they won't kill him. No ****. But after that's over, then what? You think he's going to be interested in retiring, destroy the data, and making love to some Krogans? Or do you think he's going to keep using that Reaper tech against anything that isn't human?

Whatever he is going to do its not going to be something as illogical as building a reaper.

You don't know what he'll learn from studying that. We don't even know why they were making a human reaper, and why it needed human goo. For all we know, he might find a way around it if you give him 10 years.

We already have a general idea of why it needed human goo. And it isn't to power its offenses and defenses.

Don't even feel like responding to the rest.

Man, I hate typing on this piece of **** computer. Makes writing to a bunch a quotes a pain. (thus, why I'm doing it this way).

1) No he won't. First, it is completely unnecessary. Second, he doesn't have the manpower. Third, it would bring too much attention to himself. Fourth, Shepard would know what was going on in an instant.

TMALIVE: If the Collectors did it for YEARS, and were never stopped, how is Cerberus different?

2) You have no idea how the reapers were made or whether their creation was intention or not.

TMALIVE: Unless TIM starts studying. We know they can be made, and that base knows how to make them.

3) Whatever he is going to do its not going to be something as illogical as building a reaper.

TMALIVE: Again, how is it illogical if someone else already did it, and a bunch of drones have been doing it since after the dawn of man?

4) We already have a general idea of why it needed human goo. And it isn't to power its offenses and defenses.

TMALIVE: Ok, then why is the Reaper being made with goo? All we know is that "any Reaper is built to resemble the race used to create it" and that they're not just machines, but also organic (something like the Transformers I guess, except more goo and less metal?).

[smudboy]

Phaedon wrote...

smudboy, regardless of what you think of the opinion of the person that you are replying to, you don't have the right to insult them in any way. Could we please have a constructive debate? Thanks.

Ever gone to the psych ward of your local hospital?

[Pacifien]

This thread is being closed for due to some posters inability to maintain a civil discussion. If you want to start it up again, remember to keep it civil.

Modifié par Pacifien, 16 octobre 2010 - 09:00 .

[TMA LIVE]

[quote]smudboy wrote...

1) It builds Human Reapers.  Human.  Human.
2) "Why yes, old boy.  We'll just secretly steal millions of people from, oh I don't know, pick a species!  We'll then play 'will it blend?'  And before you know it, we'll have our own Reaper.  No one will see it coming!  Nevermind this'll be after we somehow stop the entire Reaper fleet from destroying us, but by golly, I have a dream."

[quote]

Smug, do you honestly believe the Collector's built a base "just" to make one human reaper? Really? You believe that?