I enjoyed the Mako segments a lot. Running over Armatures and seeing the hilarious ragdoll physics was the best. I didn't even mind the planet exploration segments, I only disliked them when they started getting repetitive - especially the interiors. If the Mako was used a little less for exploring and more for the intense story driven fights, like the Mako segments on Feros, Noveria, and Ilos, it would be a lot more enjoyable. There was something to that 'space exploration' theme as well, though, even if it did get old.
Was the Mako really that bad, or was it bad planet design?
Débuté par
Captain_Obvious_au
, sept. 27 2010 03:39
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#77
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 02:58
Travis Touchdown
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Definitely. That was my issue. Not the Mako itself, but driving up incredibly steep hills. And the fact that said hills almost always housed artifacts to scavenge.
The Mako itself was fun, and much funner than just running a scanner over a planet.
The Mako itself was fun, and much funner than just running a scanner over a planet.
#78
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:31
Rambie
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Captain_Obvious_au wrote... ... But I then start thinking, whilst driving along a more-or-less flat section 'hang on, the Mako is actually a lot of fun to drive. Maybe it's not the Mako that was the problem, but the planet design?'
For sure it was the planet terrian that was wrong. I love the Mako on flatter sections, Luna has some great flat areas.
I also like the Hammerhead too so I have no problem ith itbut would like to see more missions for ME2 and see it in ME3 as a mission system.
#79
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:34
jpgarcia87
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Oh yeah, the Mako was great. I had fun driving it around. The ridiculously steep cliffs and such were annoying, especially when there was something important tucked between them all. But I can't entirely blame the planet designs because the atmospheres themselves were beautiful. Nodacrux is my favorite; awesome-looking planet, and the location of the Prothean sphere makes it more mysterious. Antibaar was great as well. The blizzard mixed with that sky... wow.
#80
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:35
silentassassin264
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The planet design was god awful. The unc missions consisted of driving around to dots on a map for ages and when you got to the main base, shoot some enemies outside and then go into the same room you have been in on the last several unc missions and then leave. Unfortunately, the terrain until you got to that same room you have been to several times hates your guts and takes forever to traverse.
Mainly, if they had even just put ambushes or enemies just casually laying around the planet it would have kept things interesting but I tended to get that Legend of Zelda: WW feeling that I should be doing something better with my time as I held down the control stick waiting to climb over a mountain.
Mainly, if they had even just put ambushes or enemies just casually laying around the planet it would have kept things interesting but I tended to get that Legend of Zelda: WW feeling that I should be doing something better with my time as I held down the control stick waiting to climb over a mountain.
#81
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:44
Terror_K
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Definitely. The Mako's only real issues were it was slightly too bouncy and that the 360 versions camera-dependent controls sucked (but this was fixed in the PC one, so... yeah).
The Hammerhead on the other hand is just a terrible vehicle in almost every respect, and just seems to prove that BioWare completely missed the point. The Mako was a good, sensible and fitting vehicle that happened to generally be dropped on some bad locations and had to you performing mindless repetitive tasks. The Hammerhead is just a terrible vehicle.
The Hammerhead on the other hand is just a terrible vehicle in almost every respect, and just seems to prove that BioWare completely missed the point. The Mako was a good, sensible and fitting vehicle that happened to generally be dropped on some bad locations and had to you performing mindless repetitive tasks. The Hammerhead is just a terrible vehicle.
#82
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:57
Kavadas
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Bring Down the Sky really highlighted how terrific the Mako was when the terrain was modeled to sensibly accommodate it.
As others have mentioned, most of the difficult planet maps looked like random terrain generations straight out of Bryce but driving around on the asteroid X57 was an absolute breeze (and the outdoor segments of the mission were great!).
As others have mentioned, most of the difficult planet maps looked like random terrain generations straight out of Bryce but driving around on the asteroid X57 was an absolute breeze (and the outdoor segments of the mission were great!).
Modifié par Kavadas, 28 septembre 2010 - 03:58 .
#83
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 05:24
Aedan_Cousland
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Planet design.
The problem wasn't the Mako, it was some of the horrible maps you were given to operate the Mako on. The terrain should have been much more flat, or at least with clear paths over or around mountains and other obstacles. Some of the planets were also very similar, so there wasn't enough variety in maps. Unfortunately too many people came on the forums bashing the Mako rather than the maps, so in the sequel we didnt't get any land rover and an ultra lame mining minigame was put in as a poor substitute. Hopefully in ME3 a rover of some sort will return, but just with more interesting and less challenging terrain to navigate.
The problem wasn't the Mako, it was some of the horrible maps you were given to operate the Mako on. The terrain should have been much more flat, or at least with clear paths over or around mountains and other obstacles. Some of the planets were also very similar, so there wasn't enough variety in maps. Unfortunately too many people came on the forums bashing the Mako rather than the maps, so in the sequel we didnt't get any land rover and an ultra lame mining minigame was put in as a poor substitute. Hopefully in ME3 a rover of some sort will return, but just with more interesting and less challenging terrain to navigate.
#84
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 05:38
Yakko77
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GodWood wrote...
I've always thought this.
Yes the mako wasn't perfect but it wasn't the issue, those stupid planet designs were.
This.
The Mako was a fine vehicle and fun to drive (even if I usually left it to fight to get more xp) but driving so much to get to A to B was tedious. That said, as much as I liked the Mako, the Hammer(Feather)head is a superior vehicle by far. Just don't try to fight in it like you would the Mako. As I've said before, the Mako is like a American F4F Wildcat and the Hammerhead is a Japanese A6M Zero/Zeke fighter from WWII. Both have their strengths. Use them to their strenghts and you should come out victorious.
#85
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 09:51
eldav
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I hate it when people says that alll the planets looks same, when in fact it was geologicaly alive.
It was so life like and filled an scifi nerds wet dream to visit and explore planets.
I do however understand that people hated the terrain (with a good reason) but here is where Bioware
always get it wrong by thinking that we hated everything about the planet exploration.
And then trying to fix it with a hovercraft with no planet exploration its just sad.
Do you remember in ME people complaining about garrus low rez face ?, and bioware responded with a fix......for the in menu face.
We should just ber in mind how simple bioware is when complaining here, who knows if you complain about the ammo then maybe they fix it by leaving out ammo the next game.
It was so life like and filled an scifi nerds wet dream to visit and explore planets.
I do however understand that people hated the terrain (with a good reason) but here is where Bioware
always get it wrong by thinking that we hated everything about the planet exploration.
And then trying to fix it with a hovercraft with no planet exploration its just sad.
Do you remember in ME people complaining about garrus low rez face ?, and bioware responded with a fix......for the in menu face.
We should just ber in mind how simple bioware is when complaining here, who knows if you complain about the ammo then maybe they fix it by leaving out ammo the next game.
#86
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 10:03
Moondoggie
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It's generally the effect of these things for everyone to hate it when it's out then love it years later. I remember when the first game came out and everyone whined forever about the Mako and planet exploration and whatever else. And now we have a second game without all that everyone is singing the praises of the Mako and planet exploration. Sure the Hammerhead isn't all that great either but i was glad to see the back of the damn Mako. Controls were a total pain in the ass and it had a habit of flipping over after catching any slight bump in the ground. Plus planet exploration wasn't really anything special. Just looooong drives through nothingness. If they bring back the Mako then people will just complain about it again. The nature of gamers is never to be happy and always complain about the new game while universally praising the one before it.
#87
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 11:00
Terror_K
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It's also funny how many complaints ME1 has received only since ME2 has come out.
Like the elevators, The Mako was a victim of being a buzzword commonly associated with a problem ME1 had that unfortunately was removed because BioWare either missed the point of the issue at hand and treated the word most commonly associated with the problem as the problem, or merely decided to get rid of anything and everything even remotely associated with the problem entirely.
This is particularly evident when you look at what they tried to replace it with (in this case planet scanning combined with the dreadful Hammerhead) and see how spectacularly they failed and the point was missed. Overlord gave me small hope with its main hub world that perhaps more epic and interesting worlds could make a return in ME1, but the continued use and implementation of The Hammerhead doesn't give me much hope where that's concerned.
Like the elevators, The Mako was a victim of being a buzzword commonly associated with a problem ME1 had that unfortunately was removed because BioWare either missed the point of the issue at hand and treated the word most commonly associated with the problem as the problem, or merely decided to get rid of anything and everything even remotely associated with the problem entirely.
This is particularly evident when you look at what they tried to replace it with (in this case planet scanning combined with the dreadful Hammerhead) and see how spectacularly they failed and the point was missed. Overlord gave me small hope with its main hub world that perhaps more epic and interesting worlds could make a return in ME1, but the continued use and implementation of The Hammerhead doesn't give me much hope where that's concerned.
Modifié par Terror_K, 28 septembre 2010 - 11:01 .
#88
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 11:35
Blastback
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I honestly liked the Mako itself. I just got annoyed with how much time the game forced us to use it. It wasn't as much fun as ground combat.
#89
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 12:07
SentinelBorg
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Fractal generated planets were the problem. The Mako worked well on story-line planets and Bring down the Sky. The Hammerhead plain sucks.
#90
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 12:55
eldav
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ME1 was techknicaly impresive, i always fail to understand why people didnt see that the elevator rides was loading the are ahead of you.
And ME2 loooooong loading times makes it hillarious. (fix with affiniti)
And ME2 loooooong loading times makes it hillarious. (fix with affiniti)
#91
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 01:14
Urazz
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I dunno, maneuverability on the mako was a real pain in the butt to handle but it could take hits quite well and dish out damage too so that it felt like a tank. The hammerhead has excellent maneuverability but had paper thin armor so it was easy to destroy, which wouldn't be a problem but basically you couldn't avoid enemy fire with that maneuverability. It also felt like it did crap for damage.Aprudena Gist wrote...
The mako is still a better vehicle then this new pos despite all its failings. I dont understand why its so hard to make a vehicle that isn't crap.
I personally, hope they combine the durability and guns of the mako onto the hammerhead so we could move around easily while having decent durability and weapons.
#92
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 02:22
Aedan_Cousland
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Moondoggie wrote...
It's generally the effect of these things for everyone to hate it when it's out then love it years later. I remember when the first game came out and everyone whined forever about the Mako and planet exploration and whatever else. And now we have a second game without all that everyone is singing the praises of the Mako and planet exploration. Sure the Hammerhead isn't all that great either but i was glad to see the back of the damn Mako. Controls were a total pain in the ass and it had a habit of flipping over after catching any slight bump in the ground. Plus planet exploration wasn't really anything special. Just looooong drives through nothingness. If they bring back the Mako then people will just complain about it again. The nature of gamers is never to be happy and always complain about the new game while universally praising the one before it.
That is true to a certain extent but there was always people that argued that the problem wasnt' the Mako itself, just the terrain you were given to operate it on. Unfortunately the loudest and most obnoxious complainers overreacted and bashed anything to do with the Mako, and unfortunately Bioware heard them. So instead of a fixed Mako we got no Mako at all in ME2 and an excrutiatingly borning mining minigame. It's akin to walking into a doctor's office with a broken thumb and getting your arm amputated as treatment.
Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 28 septembre 2010 - 02:23 .
#93
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 02:37
Mixtos
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I thought that both were issues. The Mako's controls could have used refinement, as you would often bounce around a planet and take far too long to get from point A to point B, where as the planets had far too many bumps and mountains that compounded the handling issues.
Ideally, the Mako should have been a bit more 'grounded', the planets should have been flatter and also should have had a greater variety and amount of things to discover.
EDIT: Come to think of it, if the planets were designed to better suit the Mako, I doubt there would have been that much of an issue with the Mako in the first place, so I'm pinning this one on the planet design.
Ideally, the Mako should have been a bit more 'grounded', the planets should have been flatter and also should have had a greater variety and amount of things to discover.
EDIT: Come to think of it, if the planets were designed to better suit the Mako, I doubt there would have been that much of an issue with the Mako in the first place, so I'm pinning this one on the planet design.
Modifié par Mixtos, 28 septembre 2010 - 03:03 .
#94
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:31
Joshua nash
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planet design was pretty much the problem as i see it, granted not all planets were bad some where actually quite nice to tool around on, but those were very,very few in number
#95
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:31
jojon2se
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The problem with assigning more realistic physics parameters is that real life is kind of tedious - the extra mass and reduced elasticity would make the Mako handle much better, but feel more sluggish, like you're driving a tractor, which, realistically, is not far from the truth, but doesn't make for the most exciting gameplay possible. 
I never understood why people say planet scanning "replaced" the Mako - you had no direct use for elements prospected in ME1, the way you do in ME2 and that whole easter egg hunt was an optional for the obsessive collectors and completionists, who wanted to max out their XP. I suppose it does serve as a replacement time sink - the filler material used to inflate gameplay time; e.g. overuse of the Mako in generic side quests in ME1 (which is more the problem than either the handling or the terrain) and planet scanning in ME2, along with endless other minigame repetitions in both.
I'm going to say something I guess many will disagree with, here: I'd rather pay as much for a much shorter game, with a tight story, than suffer all the chores added to artificially make it longer.
I never understood why people say planet scanning "replaced" the Mako - you had no direct use for elements prospected in ME1, the way you do in ME2 and that whole easter egg hunt was an optional for the obsessive collectors and completionists, who wanted to max out their XP. I suppose it does serve as a replacement time sink - the filler material used to inflate gameplay time; e.g. overuse of the Mako in generic side quests in ME1 (which is more the problem than either the handling or the terrain) and planet scanning in ME2, along with endless other minigame repetitions in both.
I'm going to say something I guess many will disagree with, here: I'd rather pay as much for a much shorter game, with a tight story, than suffer all the chores added to artificially make it longer.
#96
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:46
Vendetta11
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Great thread topic.
And I agree with those who feel the planet designs were the issue, NOT the controls of the Mako. I never really had any problems controlling the Mako itself, but I cannot speak for those who played ME1 on a console rather than a PC (I much prefer a keyboard/mouse over a controller any day of the week).
The planet scanning in ME2 was tedious and on the borning side. I hope the devs scrap it in favor of something like the Mako and/or Hammerhead.
And I agree with those who feel the planet designs were the issue, NOT the controls of the Mako. I never really had any problems controlling the Mako itself, but I cannot speak for those who played ME1 on a console rather than a PC (I much prefer a keyboard/mouse over a controller any day of the week).
The planet scanning in ME2 was tedious and on the borning side. I hope the devs scrap it in favor of something like the Mako and/or Hammerhead.
#97
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:52
RinpocheSchnozberry
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Mako in a tightly controlled area... Mako "on rails" was tolerable, bordering on fun.
Wandering all of the place doing nothing and discovers 250 credits....... Sucked.
Bouncing all over a jagged terrain...... Sucked.
No more Mako. No more at all, please. If we're going to use vehicles, it should be like in Lair of the Shadow Broker. Short, fun, lots of stuff going on around us. NOT randomly wandering, falling asleep for next to no pay off.
Wandering all of the place doing nothing and discovers 250 credits....... Sucked.
Bouncing all over a jagged terrain...... Sucked.
No more Mako. No more at all, please. If we're going to use vehicles, it should be like in Lair of the Shadow Broker. Short, fun, lots of stuff going on around us. NOT randomly wandering, falling asleep for next to no pay off.
#98
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:55
ciaweth
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I was gonna post, but you said everything already. This.RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Mako in a tightly controlled area... Mako "on rails" was tolerable, bordering on fun.
Wandering all of the place doing nothing and discovers 250 credits....... Sucked.
Bouncing all over a jagged terrain...... Sucked.
No more Mako. No more at all, please. If we're going to use vehicles, it should be like in Lair of the Shadow Broker. Short, fun, lots of stuff going on around us. NOT randomly wandering, falling asleep for next to no pay off.
#99
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 03:56
Ygolnac
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Ok, the mako was a pain to drive, but i liked the fact the planets were that barren, it gave me a sense of exploration and reality. I adore ME2, but miss that idea of outer planets exploration that hit so hard on my fantasy. I hope ME3 will feature ME1 planet exploration concept, maybe in a more playable and fun way.
What Hammerhead does in Overlord DLC is a good example, although i guess that giving us 15/20 planets to explore in that way in such detail would resoult in 25gigsize/200$ game!
What Hammerhead does in Overlord DLC is a good example, although i guess that giving us 15/20 planets to explore in that way in such detail would resoult in 25gigsize/200$ game!
#100
Posté 28 septembre 2010 - 04:00
JamieCOTC
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Mako was a freaking tank. It was great. Had guns, had a cannon, had shields. Unfortunately, tanks just don't maneuver over jagged mountainous terrain all that well. Mako + Overlord style planets = WIN!
