305 réponses à ce sujet

[Kavadas]

sinosleep wrote...

Except that the dreadful hammerhead actually completely nailed most of the big issues with the mako. People complained about having to scale mountains in a dreadfully slow wheeled vehicle that had ridiculous reactions to the physics engine.

Do you realize you're complaining about the world design and not the Mako?

No one ever QQs about the Mako for worlds like Ilos, Noveria, Virmire, Luna, or Asteroid X57 which had sections built specifically for the Mako to travel along (or just friendly terrain).

And I'm not convinced the bulk of the Mako's handling criticism isn't coming from anyone but X-Box users with it's poorly designed controller; I never had any issues with the Mako, rugged terrain or not, using WASD on my PC.

Those controllers simply aren't capable of matching keyboards and mice...  so much so that Microsoft cancelled plans to allow PC users and X-Box users to play together after focus group testing confirmed that console players were getting destroyed by PC users.

Modifié par Kavadas, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:08 .

[Raygereio]

I'm late to the party, but whatever.

Bad planet design. Definitely. The Mako wasn't awful. It wasn’t perfect either - it had some wonky physics issues at time – but it got me where I needed to go.

Now the planet design. Oh, dear. The main quest planets were... average. Compared to the side quest planets, that it. They definitely were anywhere near being interesting, but at least they weren’t frustrating.
The side quest planets looked and played as if BioWare decided they needed at least some odd 30 hours of filler in ME1 and tasked an intern with providing said empty content. This intrepid fellow then grabbed the first fractal land generator google provided and churned all of the planets out in one morning. This problem was made worse by the fact that the side-quest interiors were all the frigging same.  

In short, there was nothing interesting and engaging about the exploration aspect. When you fully explored one planet, you pretty much saw it all. The only reason to continue to ‘explore’ (or just drive three times across the
terrain in a zig zag patern) was to finish the collections and even that was only worthwhile if you’re a completionist a desperately short of cash.
Frankly, the only interesting aspect about the exploration was the skies. And I’ll admit that whoever was in charge of making those did a hell of decent job.

Modifié par Raygereio, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[Whereto]

i would of loved a mako canon/ machine gun placed on top of the hammerhead along with the makos shield and armor. Then it wouldnt of been so bad, though the level design didnt help it in me1, i think if they make the mako hammerhead remix with good level deigns for me3.It will work

[Raizo]

Bad planet design.



The Mako wasn't perfect either but there wasn't anything there that I thought was seriously broken.

[lazuli]

Kavadas wrote...


And I'm not convinced the bulk of the Mako's handling criticism isn't coming from anyone but X-Box users with it's poorly designed controller; I never had any issues with the Mako, rugged terrain or not, using WASD on my PC.

I've played and beaten ME1 on both xbox and pc.  I prefer the Mako's handling on the xbox.  Turning on the pc is a chore.

Raizo wrote...

Bad planet design.

The Mako wasn't perfect either but there wasn't anything there that I thought was seriously broken.

Waiting an eternity for your shields to recharge is not good gameplay.  If I feel like I need to go make a sandwich while playing a game, the game is doing something wrong.

Modifié par lazuli, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:44 .

[habitat 67]

Oh the Mako...

what sucked:

Waiting for the shields to recharge!!!

Exploring countless planets only to find that vegetation must have just been an Earth thing.

Then, discovering there were only cows, monkey things and Thresher Maws on these other planets.

Aiming the rusty feeling cannon at closer ranges



what was awesome:

Jumping off cliffs and 360ing through the air and always landing on my feet

Looking at the planets in the sky.



(I haven't read the other responses yet)

[sinosleep]

Kavadas wrote...

Do you realize you're complaining about the world design and not the Mako?

No one ever QQs about the Mako for worlds like Ilos, Noveria, Virmire, Luna, or Asteroid X57 which had sections built specifically for the Mako to travel along (or just friendly terrain).

And I'm not convinced the bulk of the Mako's handling criticism isn't coming from anyone but X-Box users with it's poorly designed controller; I never had any issues with the Mako, rugged terrain or not, using WASD on my PC.

Those controllers simply aren't capable of matching keyboards and mice...  so much so that Microsoft cancelled plans to allow PC users and X-Box users to play together after focus group testing confirmed that console players were getting destroyed by PC users.

I had the game originally for x-box, but later purchased it on PC, the mako was garbage on both. What some of you don't seem to be understanding is that you can't completely seperate one from the other. In a properly designed game, the vehicle should be designed for use on the levels in which it is used. You can't claim that the planet design is entirely responsible and you can't claim that the make controls are entirely responsible, the two work in concert. The levels need to be designed with the vehicle in mind and the vehicle needs to be designed with the levels in mind or NEITHER has been properly designed. It's never a case of one or the other.

Especially when physics is LARGELY responsible for why the mako sucked. Why are those physics such a pain in the ass? Cause the mako has wheels. Is that a planet design issue or a mako issue? Is the way physics affect the mako a planet design issue or a mako issue? 

Modifié par sinosleep, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[Raizo]

lazuli wrote...

Kavadas wrote...


And I'm not convinced the bulk of the Mako's handling criticism isn't coming from anyone but X-Box users with it's poorly designed controller; I never had any issues with the Mako, rugged terrain or not, using WASD on my PC.

I've played and beaten ME1 on both xbox and pc.  I prefer the Mako's handling on the xbox.  Turning on the pc is a chore.

Raizo wrote...

Bad planet design.

The Mako wasn't perfect either but there wasn't anything there that I thought was seriously broken.

Waiting an eternity for your shields to recharge is not good gameplay.  If I feel like I need to go make a sandwich while playing a game, the game is doing something wrong.

At least the Mako had shields and a health bar ( sort of ) which is more than I can say about the stupid f******g Hammerhead. I can't even tell that the Hammerhead has taken damage untill it starts smoking and by then it only takes 1 hit before it gets destroyed. For future reference Bioware, I would like a little bit more warning as to when my vehicle has taken too much damage, at least then I know when to retreat and hide until shields are restored/health is replenished.

[Kavadas]

sinosleep wrote...

Stuff.

Ask yourself this single question:

If the Mako was only deployed on the likes of Noveria, Ilos, Virmire, Luna, and Asteroid X57 would people have complained about it?

The short answer is "no" and that, by itself, tells you everything there is to know about the Mako.

Modifié par Kavadas, 29 septembre 2010 - 04:24 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

sinosleep wrote...

LMFAO, ok. When does any of what you say have any affect whatsoever on any of the levels on which the fail-head is deployed? If you're going to seriously argue that the "race" against the cold was anything other than obscenely easy (you hold turbo and drive in a straight light, the horror) I'll go on ahead and bow out of this thread cause there's no sense talking to you.

I want the frozen world he got with his download, because the one I got is not straight lines and turbo...

[Spazmodian]

lazuli wrote...


Waiting an eternity for your shields to recharge is not good gameplay.  If I feel like I need to go make a sandwich while playing a game, the game is doing something wrong.

I didn't wait for the shields to recharge once, so I honestly don't understand this complaint.

[kstarler]

Kavadas wrote...

Ask yourself this single question:

If the Mako was only deployed on the likes of Noveria, Ilos, Virmire, Luna, and Asteroid X57 would people have complained about it?

The short answer is "no" and that, by itself, tells you everything there is to know about the Mako.

Actually, I've read complaints about Ilos and Asteroid X57 and their Mako sections. Virmire and Noveria complaints seem to focus more on falling off the world, which is more a player issue, since you kind of have to be a bit silly or intentionally try to do it. But I know that on Ilos some of the tight turns were a pain, as well as some physics centered on the path overgrowth. And Asteroid X57 can be as tedious as some of the planets when it comes to finding all of the secondary/tertiary finds.
That said, I think it would be nice to see some Mako-designed levels and Hammerhead-designed levels in ME3, because both could be fun if the worlds were designed specifically for them.

[kstarler]

Spazmodian wrote...

I didn't wait for the shields to recharge once, so I honestly don't understand this complaint.

I can think of one place where I would wait for shields to recharge; Ilos, right before running the gauntlet into the relay.

Modifié par kstarler, 29 septembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Schneidend]

Loved the Mako, but only the main five planets had any kind of particularly interesting driving sequences. Every side-planet was largely the same thing. A large, bumpy, monochromatic mass.

[sinosleep]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I want the frozen world he got with his download, because the one I got is not straight lines and turbo...

5 minutes in. You are in a valley surrounded by high walls. There are no branching paths. Is there some curvature? Sure. Does it matter? Considering you are on rails due to being completely walled inabsolutely not. For all intents and purposes you are running in a straight line with giant red lights making it painfully obvious where you need to go. If you are having anything remotely resembling problems on that mission I don't know what to tell you.

Modifié par sinosleep, 29 septembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[mrmike_1949]

sinosleep wrote...

I'm not talking about the lore, I'm talking about the game play. On the levels on which you have access to the hammer head, the control and environment are not the road blocks they were in the original game. When I see a spot on the map and I want to get to it it's a seamless experience. Hold the turbo down, make a few easy jumps, and presto I'm there. None of the ridiculous mid air 180s at all of 10 mph like with the mako. No falling down mountains cause you didn't hit a jaggy part of it just right. No absurd reactions to the gravity and physics.

You must be playing a different game than me - the HH can NOT "go anywhere", it has pre-designed "tracks" laid out for it! Try putting the HH on some of the tougher mountains of the ME1 worlds, and it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the HH to make it up those slopes, it can NOT drive up steep slopes.

The HH is a mini arcade game, while the Mako was integrated into the game play. Yes, lots of the terrain sucked big time, terrain design was the big problem for the Mako, but in the Mako, you could : EXIT the vehicle anywhere, SAVE a game anytime, DRIVE anywhere (even if it was extremely difflecult, it wasn't impossible like the HH), SEE the enemies on radar, SURVIVE being hit during a battle!!!!!!!! None of which you can do in theHH

[mrmike_1949]

Kavadas wrote...

Bring Down the Sky really highlighted how terrific the Mako was when the terrain was modeled to sensibly accommodate it.

As others have mentioned, most of the difficult planet maps looked like random terrain generations straight out of Bryce but driving around on the asteroid X57 was an absolute breeze (and the outdoor segments of the mission were great!).

Yes!

[mrmike_1949]

jojon2se wrote...

The problem with assigning more realistic physics parameters is that real life is kind of tedious - the extra mass and reduced elasticity would make the Mako handle much better, but feel more sluggish, like you're driving a tractor, which, realistically, is not far from the truth, but doesn't make for the most exciting gameplay possible.
I never understood why people say planet scanning "replaced" the Mako - you had no direct use for elements prospected in ME1, the way you do in ME2 and that whole easter egg hunt was an optional for the obsessive collectors and completionists, who wanted to max out their XP. I suppose it does serve as a replacement time sink - the filler material used to inflate gameplay time; e.g. overuse of the Mako in generic side quests in ME1 (which is more the problem than either the handling or the terrain) and planet scanning in ME2, along with endless other minigame repetitions in both.
I'm going to say something I guess many will disagree with, here: I'd rather pay as much for a much shorter game, with a tight story, than suffer all the chores added to artificially make it longer.

In ME1. you have that choice - you do NOT need to drive around looking for caches of minerals or whatever.

In ME2. you are stuck with Planet Scanning - you must do a certain amount or you can NOT research enough tech advances to survive. The HH missions are both DLC, so are obviously optional, but if you want a "complete" game, w all the DLC, then HH was required

[wizardryforever]

mrmike_1949 wrote...

*snip*

Everything you listed is only a flaw because the Hammerhead was added into the game after release.  The Hammerhead could climb slopes, provided said slope was relatively smooth (the Mako is not better in this) but Bioware realized that climbing slopes is one of the main reasons people hated the Mako in ME1, so they took it out.  As for not being able to get out, save, or see stats while in the Hammerhead, it's only because the Hammerhead is DLC, not part of the main game.  I guarantee that if they implement the Hammerhead in ME3 (I hope they do), those issues will be fixed.  Those issues have nothing to do with the vehicle itself, but how the game functions while the characters are inside it.

Not being able to take a hit is only a flaw if you don't know how to strafe in combat.  It is ridiculously easy to simply avoid incoming fire in the Hammerhead, meaning low armor means nothing.  The only place I had trouble avoiding fire was the end of the Geth mission, with two Collosi, a Prime, and a Destroyer all shooting at once.  I doubt the Mako would have fared much better in that situation, especially since retreat is quite difficult in the Mako.

[mrmike_1949]

lazuli wrote...

Kavadas wrote...


And I'm not convinced the bulk of the Mako's handling criticism isn't coming from anyone but X-Box users with it's poorly designed controller; I never had any issues with the Mako, rugged terrain or not, using WASD on my PC.

I've played and beaten ME1 on both xbox and pc.  I prefer the Mako's handling on the xbox.  Turning on the pc is a chore.

Raizo wrote...

Bad planet design.

The Mako wasn't perfect either but there wasn't anything there that I thought was seriously broken.

Waiting an eternity for your shields to recharge is not good gameplay.  If I feel like I need to go make a sandwich while playing a game, the game is doing something wrong.

It's still faster than reloading after the HH bites the dust because ti doesn't have shields!!!!!

[sinosleep]

mrmike_1949 wrote...

You must be playing a different game than me - the HH can NOT "go anywhere", it has pre-designed "tracks" laid out for it! Try putting the HH on some of the tougher mountains of the ME1 worlds, and it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the HH to make it up those slopes, it can NOT drive up steep slopes.

The HH is a mini arcade game, while the Mako was integrated into the game play. Yes, lots of the terrain sucked big time, terrain design was the big problem for the Mako, but in the Mako, you could : EXIT the vehicle anywhere, SAVE a game anytime, DRIVE anywhere (even if it was extremely difflecult, it wasn't impossible like the HH), SEE the enemies on radar, SURVIVE being hit during a battle!!!!!!!! None of which you can do in theHH

Another person making another silly comparison. Whether or not the hammer head could perform well in ME 1 levels has no bearing on this conversation whatsoever because IT DOESN'T HAVE TO. The HH can go anywhere in the game that it's required to go with no problems precisely because as you said it has pre-designed "tracks" laid out for it! That's good game design, making a vehicle that has a hard time travelling on the planets on which it's meant to travel is BAD game design. The mako regularly had a hard time travelling on the levels it was supposedly designed to travel on, that's bad game design.

As for exiting any where, it serves no purpose in ME 2 so it's irrelevant. Getting bonus XP out of the vehicle is no longer a gameplay feature so waht would be the point? Can't drive any where? You can drive to exactly where you need to go, which is all it needs to do. There is no resource that is harder to grab than any other due to it being a pain in the ass to simply get from point a to point b, it's seamless. Seeing enemies on the radar doesn't much matter when they are out in the open on maps that everyone agrees are smaller.

Modifié par sinosleep, 29 septembre 2010 - 11:21 .

[DRSH]

Mako wasn't boring. The planet textures were nice, but the same old enemy base over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over &.... you get the idea. That's what killed it for everyone.

[enayasoul]

i didn't like the mako because of the controls... mine was all over the place bouncing around like crazy.... hard to handle. had no problem with scanning resource for planets. That was fun for a little bit... I do like the idea with the shadow broker... getting resources that way too.

[mrmike_1949]

wizardryforever wrote...

mrmike_1949 wrote...

*snip*

1)Everything you listed is only a flaw because the Hammerhead was added into the game after release.  2)The Hammerhead could climb slopes, provided said slope was relatively smooth (the Mako is not better in this) but 3)Bioware realized that climbing slopes is one of the main reasons people hated the Mako in ME1, so they took it out.  As for not being able to get out, save, or see stats while in the Hammerhead, it's only because the Hammerhead is DLC, not part of the main game.  4)I guarantee that if they implement the Hammerhead in ME3 (I hope they do), those issues will be fixed.  Those issues have nothing to do with the vehicle itself, but how the game functions while the characters are inside it.

5)Not being able to take a hit is only a flaw if you don't know how to strafe in combat.  It is ridiculously easy to simply avoid incoming fire in the Hammerhead, meaning low armor means nothing.  The only place I had trouble avoiding fire was the end of the Geth mission, with two Collosi, a Prime, and a Destroyer all shooting at once.  I doubt the Mako would have fared much better in that situation, 6)especially since retreat is quite difficult in the Mako.

1) Is that known fact or opinion? My opinion is that the HH was kept OUT of the main game because it was not ready for prime time!
2) Wrong, just plain wrong. The mako can climb slopes that leave the HH sliding backwards down the slope!
3) Yeah, but they overreacted
4) Bet money?
5) Counting on NEVER getting hit is not a smart way to play any game
6) just drive backwards! easy to retreat; when I was shooting Primes with the Mako that was my technique: forward, shoot, retreat behind corner while Primes blast went past