256 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Morrigan can get pregnant by the Warden with or without the Dark Ritual, so Anora and Alistair having a child isn't outside the realm of possibility.

No, it's not impossible, but two of the last Wardens who fought the Blight getting a woman pregnant is statistically unlikely. (It depends on what the writers want, but in a consistent world I'd say there will be no heirs, no matter whose problem it is.)

[LobselVith8]

klarabella wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
Morrigan can get pregnant by the Warden with or without the Dark Ritual, so Anora and Alistair having a child isn't outside the realm of possibility.

No, it's not impossible, but two of the last Wardens who fought the Blight getting a woman pregnant is statistically unlikely. (It depends on what the writers want, but in a consistent world I'd say there will be no heirs, no matter whose problem it is.)

I agree that it's ultimately up to the writers, and they're certain to go whatever route they think has the most story potential, but I don't see why Alistair and the Warden being the last two Grey Wardens in Ferelden means that the possibility of both of them being parents is slim. It's only impossible for two Grey Wardens to have a child with each other, which isn't the case if Alistair is paired with Anora. Alistair also makes it clear that he's determined to have a child so that there's an heir to the throne, so it's clearly a goal for him. Considering his lack of a real family, it would be nice for him to finally get that after all the crap he's had to go through, but I suppose we won't find out either way until DA2, or possibly even DA3.

[revan11exile]

Heck the Dwarf Noble can have a kid as well (Male Dwarf Noble)and he can end up with two kids which is pretty damn cool

[Ryzaki]

DN gets the woman preganant *before* he becomes a Warden though does he not?



@LobselVith8: And I said unlikely not impossible. Add that to the fact that I doubt the two are going to be having frequent sex and yeah...pretty unlikely.

[TheRevanchist]

Ryzaki wrote...

DN gets the woman preganant *before* he becomes a Warden though does he not?

@LobselVith8: And I said unlikely not impossible. Add that to the fact that I doubt the two are going to be having frequent sex and yeah...pretty unlikely.

indeed I think Alistair will need to get some mistresses...Anora does not seem to like the idea of sex very much from my perspective.

[LobselVith8]

Ryzaki wrote...

DN gets the woman preganant *before* he becomes a Warden though does he not?

@LobselVith8: And I said unlikely not impossible. Add that to the fact that I doubt the two are going to be having frequent sex and yeah...pretty unlikely.

I'm not so sure it's unlikely, though. We hardly get any real insight into Anora's character because of how limited her exposure is towards the end of the game, so all we can really do is speculate on how a relationship would be with Anora. Generally speaking, besides the one line that Loghain gives in Awakening (which I think would likely be uncomfortable for any person to hear from their own parent), I don't see why people think Anora would hate the idea of sex with Alistair or the Cousland Warden.

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

DN gets the woman preganant *before* he becomes a Warden though does he not?

@LobselVith8: And I said unlikely not impossible. Add that to the fact that I doubt the two are going to be having frequent sex and yeah...pretty unlikely.

indeed I think Alistair will need to get some mistresses...Anora does not seem to like the idea of sex very much from my perspective.

If what she said about Cailan is true (regarding his infidelities) I can see why Anora might have felt some distance from her unfaithful husband (who the devs were planning on having betray his wife with a marriage to the Empress of Orlais, who was supposed to be in DA:O until they cut her out and inserted this story point in RtO in the form of letters). Considering that Alistair is different in significant ways from Cailan, I can see Alistair and Anora having a much better relationship than she did with Cailan.

[TheRevanchist]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

DN gets the woman preganant *before* he becomes a Warden though does he not?

@LobselVith8: And I said unlikely not impossible. Add that to the fact that I doubt the two are going to be having frequent sex and yeah...pretty unlikely.

I'm not so sure it's unlikely, though. We hardly get any real insight into Anora's character because of how limited her exposure is towards the end of the game, so all we can really do is speculate on how a relationship would be with Anora. Generally speaking, besides the one line that Loghain gives in Awakening (which I think would likely be uncomfortable for any person to hear from their own parent), I don't see why people think Anora would hate the idea of sex with Alistair or the Cousland Warden.

kylecouch wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

DN gets the woman preganant *before* he becomes a Warden though does he not?

@LobselVith8: And I said unlikely not impossible. Add that to the fact that I doubt the two are going to be having frequent sex and yeah...pretty unlikely.

indeed I think Alistair will need to get some mistresses...Anora does not seem to like the idea of sex very much from my perspective.

If what she said about Cailan is true (regarding his infidelities) I can see why Anora might have felt some distance from her unfaithful husband (who the devs were planning on having betray his wife with a marriage to the Empress of Orlais, who was supposed to be in DA:O until they cut her out and inserted this story point in RtO in the form of letters). Considering that Alistair is different in significant ways from Cailan, I can see Alistair and Anora having a much better relationship than she did with Cailan.

indeed except the fact she don't really seem to like him that much at all...remember when Alistair innocently tries to hold her hand? hes met with rejection. I would personaly like to think Anora eventually warms up to eaither Alistair or Cousland...because I thought Anora was the best looking woman in the game and I gots a serious fetish for strong women.  But you just don't see a lot of compelling evidence.

[Ryzaki]

@LobselVith8: Because she can't even hold his hand, thinks he's a fool and only married him so she could keep her throne.



She doesn't even smile at the man for god's sakes.

[Addai]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'm not so sure it's unlikely, though. We hardly get any real insight into Anora's character because of how limited her exposure is towards the end of the game, so all we can really do is speculate on how a relationship would be with Anora. Generally speaking, besides the one line that Loghain gives in Awakening (which I think would likely be uncomfortable for any person to hear from their own parent), I don't see why people think Anora would hate the idea of sex with Alistair or the Cousland Warden.

You get a bit more by talking to Loghain about her.  She had no friends and was imperious as a child- partly because of her status, not just her personality- but that combined with her overweening ambition gives an impression of her as being a pretty cold fish.  And, she won't remarry if sole ruler.  Just doesn't seem the type to be willing to be vulnerable to any man, let alone one with whom she has to share power, something she hates to do.

Considering that Alistair is different in significant ways from Cailan, I can see Alistair and Anora having a much better relationship than she did with Cailan.

OTOH Loghain says that Cailan was her only friend and she speaks of him fondly after his death.  She certainly doesn't start out on a friendship basis with Alistair, especially if Loghain is left alive.  Even the few backhanded compliments she manages towards Alistair are about how he reminds her of Cailan.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 janvier 2011 - 05:54 .

[LobselVith8]

kylecouch wrote...

indeed except the fact she don't really seem to like him that much at all...remember when Alistair innocently tries to hold her hand? hes met with rejection. I would personaly like to think Anora eventually warms up to eaither Alistair or Cousland...because I thought Anora was the best looking woman in the game and I gots a serious fetish for strong women.  But you just don't see a lot of compelling evidence.

Yeah, that whole one scene should really compel me to think that the next 30 years is going to be the same, because people never change, right? Alistair and Anora barely know each other then, and her father was murdered at his behest during the Landsmeet. When Loghain is spared, Alistair decided to become King while Anora rides off with the army. Given that Alistair has roughly 30 years to live and the epilogue mentions that they're amicably working together, I don't see why their relationship can't grow and change.

Ryzaki wrote...

@LobselVith8: Because she can't even hold his hand, thinks he's a fool and only married him so she could keep her throne.

She doesn't even smile at the man for god's sakes.

Again, one scene doesn't dictate how their relationship will develop over the next 30 years. A hardened Alistair will study governance, and will surprise Anora by siding with her judgement. Why assume that they won't have a good relationship, especially if Alistair proves to be a more competent leader and faithful husband than his brother ever was?

Addai67 wrote...

You get a bit more by talking to Loghain about her.  She had no friends and was imperious as a child- partly because of her status, not just her personality- but that combined with her overweening ambition gives an impression of her as being a pretty cold fish.  And, she won't remarry if sole ruler.  Just doesn't seem the type to be willing to be vulnerable to any man, let alone one with whom she has to share power, something she hates to do.

True, you get more depth about Loghain and Anora from talking to the respective characters. However, that doesn't mean that Alistair and Anora won't have a good relationship. If Loghain can change his stance on the GWs after the Landsmeet, why can't Anora change her opinion of Alistair if he proves himself to be a worthwhile, capable leader and faithful husband? If Anora's previously arranged marriage and its infidelities made her that much more determined not to get into another faithless marriage with someone who could undermine her authority, I can see why she wouldn't want to re-marry, but if she's paired with someone who will respect her, both as a person and as a leader of the nation, why wouldn't that be the beginning of her changing her views on Alistair? I'm not saying it's absolute, only that it's possible.

Addai67 wrote...

OTOH Loghain says that Cailan was her only friend and she speaks of him fondly after his death.  She certainly doesn't start out on a friendship basis with Alistair, especially if Loghain is left alive.  Even the few backhanded compliments she manages towards Alistair are about how he reminds her of Cailan.

I agree that they don't start off as friends, but that can change over time. The epilogue does admit that a hardened Alistair surprises her by agreeing with her decisions, and that doesn't seem to change, even if Loghain is spared from death at the Landsmeet.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:15 .

[Addai]

Anything is possible. All we can do is speculate based on the information we're given. I think Alistair and Anora can come to a working relationship, albeit one probably still difficult. I don't see them becoming close. Too different, start too far apart, and Anora just isn't the cuddly type.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

Anything is possible. All we can do is speculate based on the information we're given. I think Alistair and Anora can come to a working relationship, albeit one probably still difficult. I don't see them becoming close. Too different, start too far apart, and Anora just isn't the cuddly type.

That's true, it's all we can do. I mainly voice the possibility because it seemed to me that Anora was used to dealing with Cailan, who lived with privledge and indulged, while Alistair really didn't have anything and hasn't indulged himself because he wants to care about the person he's with. Anora is correct about an unhardened Alistair, but a hardened Alistair will surprise her. The fact that he'll actually study governance, give a damn about the nation, and trust his wife's judgement makes me optimistic about the relationship. Regardless of how it turns out, it does seem to be one of the better outcomes for Ferelden in general (and does put the Warden in the position of being the new Loghain to Alistair's Maric). Do you have any opinion on how a living Loghain might impact their relationship?

[EnforcerGREG]

Well in the words of morrigan "change is coming to the world" based what we know from info in DA2 the world is on the brink of war. Who knows hardened Alistair and Anora ruling together could become close as Ferelden is about to enter another period of turmoil. I like to think that in this case the threat of world war would unite them.

also 3 guesses what Alistair, if given the choice would call his first born son

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 05 janvier 2011 - 07:55 .

[LobselVith8]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

Well in the words of morrigan "change is coming to the world" based what we know from info in DA2 the world is on the brink of war. Who knows hardened Alistair and Anora ruling together could become close as Ferelden is about to enter another period of turmoil. I like to think that in this case the threat of world war would unite them.

also 3 guesses what Alistair, if given the choice would call his first born son

Will he inherit his namesake's beard?

[EnforcerGREG]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...

Well in the words of morrigan "change is coming to the world" based what we know from info in DA2 the world is on the brink of war. Who knows hardened Alistair and Anora ruling together could become close as Ferelden is about to enter another period of turmoil. I like to think that in this case the threat of world war would unite them.

also 3 guesses what Alistair, if given the choice would call his first born son

Will he inherit his namesake's beard?

I think everyones agreed that default male hawke is the spiritual succsessor to that legacy but anythings possible

[Thiefy]

if you have her rule alone, she still does not marry and/or have any kids, so from a metagame standpoint, even if she is fertile, she is unwilling.

anyway 30 is not that old to have kids.

[EnforcerGREG]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

if you have her rule alone, she still does not marry and/or have any kids, so from a metagame standpoint, even if she is fertile, she is unwilling.

anyway 30 is not that old to have kids.

Not nowadays with Modern medicine but it's cutting it kinda close in medieval times but seeing as this is a fantasy universe I wouldn't let my point disuade you. After all their could be magic that helps with fertility.

like.....Blood magic

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 05 janvier 2011 - 09:51 .

[TheRevanchist]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Anything is possible. All we can do is speculate based on the information we're given. I think Alistair and Anora can come to a working relationship, albeit one probably still difficult. I don't see them becoming close. Too different, start too far apart, and Anora just isn't the cuddly type.

That's true, it's all we can do. I mainly voice the possibility because it seemed to me that Anora was used to dealing with Cailan, who lived with privledge and indulged, while Alistair really didn't have anything and hasn't indulged himself because he wants to care about the person he's with. Anora is correct about an unhardened Alistair, but a hardened Alistair will surprise her. The fact that he'll actually study governance, give a damn about the nation, and trust his wife's judgement makes me optimistic about the relationship. Regardless of how it turns out, it does seem to be one of the better outcomes for Ferelden in general (and does put the Warden in the position of being the new Loghain to Alistair's Maric). Do you have any opinion on how a living Loghain might impact their relationship?

You could be right, it's immpossible to say really. I would say Anora's ability to bear a child will drop significantly after about halfway through DA2 though. While they may indeed get closer, and I hope they do because call me crazy...but I think the Theirin blood is important to Ferelden. I would very much like it to continue if possible. That line is an important symbol to Ferelden's identity. Besides that if a hardend Alistair and Anora have an heir...can you imagine how much of a bad ass ruler that kid would be? Would probably be the greatest monarch to ever live, rivleing Genghis Khan or Elizebeth or anyone else you can think of.

[Addai]

LobselVith8 wrote...
That's true, it's all we can do. I mainly voice the possibility because it seemed to me that Anora was used to dealing with Cailan, who lived with privledge and indulged, while Alistair really didn't have anything and hasn't indulged himself because he wants to care about the person he's with. Anora is correct about an unhardened Alistair, but a hardened Alistair will surprise her. The fact that he'll actually study governance, give a damn about the nation, and trust his wife's judgement makes me optimistic about the relationship. Regardless of how it turns out, it does seem to be one of the better outcomes for Ferelden in general (and does put the Warden in the position of being the new Loghain to Alistair's Maric). Do you have any opinion on how a living Loghain might impact their relationship?

Anora grew up privileged, too, which is probably why she feels so damn entitled.  But it's true that Alistair is less glorious than his brother, and more likely to defer even when hardened, though he makes a point of saying (if hardened and Loghain is spared) that Anora is not always going to get her way.  He also cares about things that she doesn't- namely the common people- which can be an advantage for their co-rulership but will probably mean tension for them personally.

Loghain goes to Montsimmard if he's spared and doesn't sac himself, so he's out of the picture, but Alistair is far more bitter in that case.  He mentions having a wife who'll remind him of Loghain and of what he sees as the Warden's betrayal every day.  Meanwhile, Anora reveres Loghain.  So this is bound to always be a source of tension.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 janvier 2011 - 10:18 .

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

Anora grew up privileged, too, which is probably why she feels so damn entitled.  But it's true that Alistair is less glorious than his brother, and more likely to defer even when hardened, though he makes a point of saying (if hardened and Loghain is spared) that Anora is not always going to get her way.  He also cares about things that she doesn't- namely the common people- which can be an advantage for their co-rulership but will probably mean tension for them personally.

That's pretty evident in what happens to the Denerim alienage.

Addai67 wrote...

Loghain goes to Montsimmard if he's spared and doesn't sac himself, so he's out of the picture, but Alistair is far more bitter in that case.  He mentions having a wife who'll remind him of Loghain and of what he sees as the Warden's betrayal every day.  Meanwhile, Anora reveres Loghain.  So this is bound to always be a source of tension.

But he does spend six months in Ferelden before then, and since the epilogue slide doesn't change in spite of this (unless the Warden becomes Chancellor), it seems like Alistair is able to work with Anora for the better of Ferelden. I do agree that it'd likely be a source of friction between the two, but I'd imagine that killing him would also result with that same tension, since Alistair demands his death at the Landsmeet (and it's likely why she withdrew her hand from him if he's killed).

[ziloe]

Sandtigress wrote...


Now, as far as Cailan cheating on Anora...we only have Anora's word on it, and at that particular moment when she reveals this she's trying to get on your good side so that you will back her in the Landsmeet. It might be true...or she might just be saying it for her own purposes.

It's shown to be true in one of the DLC through a particular letter.

Also, no reason he couldn't be impotent or some other such thing, considering he's compensating by wanting to have a huge battle and be a great big hero. ;P

[Addai]

@ziloe, the DLC/ Word of God shows that Cailan intended to divorce Anora, but I doubt that's what she had in mind when she said that he "had his women." I figure it's probably a combination of general low fertility among Fereldans, and neither Cailan or Anora being very motivated in that department, at least with each other.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 janvier 2011 - 11:48 .

[Thiefy]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

if you have her rule alone, she still does not marry and/or have any kids, so from a metagame standpoint, even if she is fertile, she is unwilling.

anyway 30 is not that old to have kids.

Not nowadays with Modern medicine but it's cutting it kinda close in medieval times but seeing as this is a fantasy universe I wouldn't let my point disuade you. After all their could be magic that helps with fertility.

like.....Blood magic

let's see....my dad was born in 1929 and my mom was born in 1948. I was born in 1986. Figure the math on THAT one

oh and considering that was in the 80's no viagra, used - i'm an all natural baby. no pills, no machines, no inducing, notta.

same goes for my (half) sister, she gave birth to my nephew at age 38 or 39, all natural.

it was just more common in medevil times to breed young since generally speaking, younger people recover from injuries and sickness (or in the case of women, the trials of pregnancy) faster and easier than older people.

in anycase, for a 30 year old, anora looks incredibly healthy and beautiful - you know, given the time setting

[EnforcerGREG]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

if you have her rule alone, she still does not marry and/or have any kids, so from a metagame standpoint, even if she is fertile, she is unwilling.

anyway 30 is not that old to have kids.

Not nowadays with Modern medicine but it's cutting it kinda close in medieval times but seeing as this is a fantasy universe I wouldn't let my point disuade you. After all their could be magic that helps with fertility.

like.....Blood magic

let's see....my dad was born in 1929 and my mom was born in 1948. I was born in 1986. Figure the math on THAT one

oh and considering that was in the 80's no viagra, used - i'm an all natural baby. no pills, no machines, no inducing, notta.

same goes for my (half) sister, she gave birth to my nephew at age 38 or 39, all natural.

it was just more common in medevil times to breed young since generally speaking, younger people recover from injuries and sickness (or in the case of women, the trials of pregnancy) faster and easier than older people.

in anycase, for a 30 year old, anora looks incredibly healthy and beautiful - you know, given the time setting

well I was born in 1992 my mum was 33 since were sharing .

What I generally mean is that the latter you leave having children the more chance of complications.... or twins, if me and my sister are anything to go by.
 
I don't consider 1929 to be before modern medicine I think the real advances started after first world war. So 1918.

[Thiefy]

EnforcerGREG wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

EnforcerGREG wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

if you have her rule alone, she still does not marry and/or have any kids, so from a metagame standpoint, even if she is fertile, she is unwilling.

anyway 30 is not that old to have kids.

Not nowadays with Modern medicine but it's cutting it kinda close in medieval times but seeing as this is a fantasy universe I wouldn't let my point disuade you. After all their could be magic that helps with fertility.

like.....Blood magic

let's see....my dad was born in 1929 and my mom was born in 1948. I was born in 1986. Figure the math on THAT one

oh and considering that was in the 80's no viagra, used - i'm an all natural baby. no pills, no machines, no inducing, notta.

same goes for my (half) sister, she gave birth to my nephew at age 38 or 39, all natural.

it was just more common in medevil times to breed young since generally speaking, younger people recover from injuries and sickness (or in the case of women, the trials of pregnancy) faster and easier than older people.

in anycase, for a 30 year old, anora looks incredibly healthy and beautiful - you know, given the time setting

well I was born in 1992 my mum was 33 since were sharing .

What I generally mean is that the latter you leave having children the more chance of complications.... or twins, if me and my sister are anything to go by.
 
I don't consider 1929 to be before modern medicine I think the real advances started after first world war. So 1918.

that's not what i was implying with my father's birth year, i was saying that, with my own family as a good example, 30 really isn't that old to be reproducing since i'm a product of the "late season" couples, so to speak, and sister being almost tens years older and still giving birth. no doubt there are more complications; which is why i said it was more common for giving birth younger - it's less likely to happen and should it arise, a younger female would more often than not be "stronger" and more capable of bouncing back from a complicated delivery.