48 réponses à ce sujet

[John Epler]

tool_bot, NKKK, knock it off.

[John Epler]

rexil wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I guess, you'll just have to pause more often when things don't go your way ?

I already compulsively pause every two seconds.  In every battle.

At this speed I'll need to pause every half second.

Just buy a crappy PC and the lag will do the job for you.

I refer to that as 'hang-time', and pretend that the world is holding its breath in awe of my prowess on the battlefield.

[David Gaider]

The Director wrote...
Will it lead to stringable attack combos, seamless group "gang-up" attacks, and, of course, more animated variety in attacks and a visually distinct difference in attacks, [like how Upset Balance and Dirty Fighting were the same motion]?

If by "attack combos" you mean initiating an attack by keying in different button entries, then no. There is animated variety, mainly because the animation attacks now key differently according to the relation between the attacker and the target-- so if the target is to your left or a little more distant (but still within closing range) the attack will still initiate with a smoother animation rather than requiring you to move up and get synced first.

There's a thread on the front page called "Bioware, is combat the focus" which has some great posts by Mike if you're interested in how the combat actually breaks down and how it's different from Origins (as well as how it's the same).

filaminstrel wrote...
It looks faster, but I found it fairly
easy to follow watching their character portraits and seeing familiar
attacks being used, and the pace at which they were used. Feels pretty
much like Origins. YMMV of course.

That's where I stand, personally. I'm not one for combat, myself-- I don't like the idea of things getting hectic. If they did, I'd probably just turn my brain off and mash buttons until I got frustrated. The pacing of the combat feels the same in DA2, to me, and I'm fully able to follow what my companions are doing and give orders if I wish (which is what I usually do). PC users will have the auto-attack, as well, which will make it easier to give orders and leave to control someone else if they wish. But the individual's mileage will vary, like you said. I think maybe it's easy to confuse the speed of the animations with the pacing of the combat overall.

Modifié par David Gaider, 29 septembre 2010 - 12:02 .

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Do you think you'll be able to polish up the "skating" look of the closing attacks? Like I said I have no quams at all with combat feeling more responsive, yet at the same time I would prolly hate the game if combat turned into some combination of DA + Ninja Gaiden. I suppose there's a fine line there somewhere.

I know that they're playing with the timing of the attacks a lot (that's Seb's job, I believe). I can't really comment on the individual animations, myself-- nor on the Ninja Gaiden comparison, as I've never played it-- but I imagine the allowed range of the closing attack is bound to go through changes between now and release.

[David Gaider]

Dr. wonderful wrote...
Well Bioware...You guys are on some SEVERE Damage control...

Meh. I've seen threads full of outrage that drove it to 300 pages overnight. This isn't one of those. That said, there's a lot of Really Concerned People-- so some of us will come here on our own time and see what we can do to hold some hands and make soothing noises. Because that's the kind of people we are.

That and Now I want to play it MOAR.

Careful, champ. There's still months and months until release.

[John Epler]

Brockololly wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Kerilus wrote...

How many times must it be stressed that the silly animation such as the jump and the comic like arc effects are not the exaggerated parts and will be in the game? And that is the true worry of some of us?

And the speed.  Don't forget the speed.

As I said before, I'll have to play the game to know whether it works, but I worry about the ability to keep track of four characters at once if combat really moves that quickly.

Thats exactly my concern.

If the game is moving that fast, with four characters pretty much zipping all over the place and doing their attack s instantly and practically chaining together combos, it would seem to sort of negate your ability to "think like a General." Or you'll literally be pausing every 0.5ms to try and coordinate combat.

But this is why I want to see some of the "real" gameplay- it seems problematic now with the one hit kill trash mob Chalkspawn, but assuming real enemies take more than one hit to kill, even if the animations are speeding along, hopefully enemies lasting more than one second makes pause and play and autoattack slightly more logical.

And I can certainly understand your concern! I myself am absolutely terrible at those heavily actiony games - I never even managed to beat the first boss in Devil May Cry 4, nor could I make it past the standard ninjas in Ninja Gaiden. The thing is, DA2 still feels like DA:O. It's a little faster, certainly, but when I got to play it recently, it felt like a more responsive DA:O with a few things tweaked.

Is everyone going to love it? No, of course not - the nature of any endeavour of this sort is that you'll have people who are happy with it and people who are unhappy with it. However, I would in no way compare it to DMC or similar.

Take that as you will - I'm a developer and undoubtedly biased! But I think a lot of your concerns, while valid, will be allayed.

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
A simple solution would be to show off the PC version in regular gameplay (not varrick's wet dream) with a full party. I share your concerns though.

I agree. That said, we can't just spit one out because of a leaked video. Whatever we put out still has to be something that does the trick without being slapped together-- no point in that, either.

[John Epler]

Let's bring this back towards DA2, folks - much as I love talking about new releases, this is the DA2 forum and we have to stay tangentially related to that topic.

[David Gaider]

Fexelea wrote...
So... where are the "Jrpgs suck because of unrealistic, giant swords" folk at now? Eating their hats?

Probably still back in those DAO threads where they complained about the same thing.

[John Epler]

Let's try to keep this away from JRPG vs. WRPG. Not really the place for it - and both styles of game have their specific idiosyncrasies. Suggesting that one or the other is better is entirely a matter of opinion, and not really on-topic.

[John Epler]

annihilator27 wrote...

I like it, Still a work in progress for those that dont like it. My gripe is thats a alot of blood lol.

I can tell you that the amount of blood in the recorded footage is not indicative of the amount of blood in the game as a whole. What works for a narrated exaggeration doesn't necessarily work for the rest.

[John Epler]

I imagine that once people see the combat versus an actual enemy that poses a threat (where you need to pause and issue orders in a manner not unlike DA:O), it will quell a number of fears. Because Merin, you're correct - I know that my DA:O playthrough was about 40% real time, 60% pausing and setting up orders. And since there's none of that in the video, it does look like an entirely different game. When I felt like just rushing through the game and set the difficulty to the easiest - well, my experience looked a lot like this demo. But with more shuffling.

[John Epler]

arosjoa wrote...

If this helps or not I say it isnt bad that bioware wants to make the game more "active" but still moving the sword that way a la DMC will be a LOT lazy of bioware if they plan to leave it that way.
Would be awesome if movements where more "real" and fluid, or I am the only one who had tried any kind of sword combat? (me have done fencing and sword play, had a cool childhood).

They could have combos (check Ninja Gaiden, but dont copy, freaking lot of work). If they need more time to actually do things right I support stalling launch date (now dont kill me, its better that way) because the way it looks right now will make the combat freaking boring (DAO wasnt the best thing in the world but in PC when it getted very challenging was very very cool).

END OF POST

Not trying to be a jerk (so I apologize if I sound like one!) but you realize you're basing how much fun the combat will be on two minutes of video? I can understand why people make assumptions about the speed and visual style of the game based on the video (you can look at it and say 'hey, that's what the animations kind of look like!) but I feel like assuming the game will be either A) easy or  boring is a little bit of a stretch at this point.

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion! But I would argue (and as always, I speak with a little bit of bias) that the game feels like DA:O, just with some of what I'd consider to be optimization. Not everyone will agree, undoubtedly, but as much as we'd like to, we can't please everyone. If we could, we'd be rich beyond the dreams of mortals.

[Seb Hanlon]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I agree. The character status thingys are way too intrusive. They should be moved over more to the left, there's plenty of blank screen there.

I'll jump in here just to point out that the character portrait GUI you're seeing is specific to the consoles; as we've said many times before, PC has a different GUI. One of the things we have to take in to account on consoles is a "safe zone" around the edge of the picture where we can't display anything important because it might get cut off, depending on different people's televisions and configuration and such.

[Seb Hanlon]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

I agree. The character status thingys are way too intrusive. They should be moved over more to the left, there's plenty of blank screen there.

I'll jump in here just to point out that the character portrait GUI you're seeing is specific to the consoles; as we've said many times before, PC has a different GUI. One of the things we have to take in to account on consoles is a "safe zone" around the edge of the picture where we can't display anything important because it might get cut off, depending on different people's televisions and configuration and such.

But I'm a console user.  Why am I constantly being told I'm going to get a poor man's version of the game?

If you can't move then I'd recommend moving them back to where they were in Origins because generally things don't happen in top corners of the screen, whereas these will surely intrude upon combat.

I could tell you that we're working hard at making sure that DA2 will look, feel, and play awesome on the consoles, with lots of targeted improvements over DAO to make the interface really feel at home on a console controller. If I told you that, though, the PC gamers in the thread might accuse me (and BW, by extension) of dumbing the game down for the consoles and pandering to 8-year-olds. Everything is ruined forever!

I could tell the PC users that we're being careful to keep the things that made DA2 PC great, and spending the time to make the PC interface take advantage of the mouse, keyboard, and play style of that platform. If I said that, though, you might accuse me (and BW, by extension) of delivering a poor man's DA2 to our Xbox and PS3 audience. Everything is ruined forever!

So, instead, I'll tell you (and everyone else) that we're working on all platforms, side by side, to deliver the best experience for every platform. This leaked, not endorsed by Bioware, pre-release, out of context footage is not necessarily representative of the final game. Don't panic.

[Seb Hanlon]

shinobi602 wrote...

Ok, can someone clear this up for me. Can we play DA2 in real time? I mean can like an action RPG, where we manually control the combat instead of pause the game, choose attack, and watch our character do all the work?

Or will it be exactly like DA1? Because that's the only reason why I didn't buy DA1 =/

In DA2, the combat is definitely more responsive, and especially on the Xbox 360 and PS3, you'll be able to take direct control of any party member, move them around the battlefield, and have their attacks and special abilities respond quickly and naturally to your button presses. Mike Laidlaw calls this "fighting like a Spartan". Standing around and watching your character do all the work is not recommended, as it often turns into watching your character get pummelled if you (the player) aren't participating in the fight.

On all platforms, you can still exert tactical control over your entire party by pausing the game, checking the status of your party, surveying the battlefield, targeting enemies, issuing orders, and then resuming the action at the touch of a button. Mike calls this "thinking like a general". You can do this as often or as infrequently as you like. The higher the difficulty level you want to play at, the more you'll likely want to take advantage of this style of gameplay, but it's up to you.

edit: rephrased to clarify that you can't take control of "any character", just the ones in your party

Modifié par Seb Hanlon, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:34 .

[Mike Laidlaw]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So if a BioWare person says "Yes, DA2 plays like a hack n slash!"  a contingent of people will go frothing at the mouth nerd rage, calling an Exalted March on Edmonton.

They haven't said anything yet and there's already enough rage that you'd think this would be an MMORPG forum.

I'll brave the rage. I would ask that people please read the whole post. It won't be long, I promise:

Yes, you can play DA:2 like a hack and slash game. Briefly.

And then Varric stops making stuff up about you, and you will have to play for real. At the beginning it won't be that hard, so you could elect to hack, or slash, but you won't be as good at it, so you might want to use an ability or two. And then later, you're going to be facing some tougher stuff, so you might want to buy and equip new armor. And eventually, that armor might not be quite tough enough so you might want to not only get some new armor, but craft some runes that you can use to enchant that armor to make it better.

So, yes. You can play DA:2 like a hack and slash game, right up until you no longer can. When is that point? Really depends on your difficulty level.

But it's still going to play faster, and it's going to feature people rolling and leaping and it's going to make noises that are very much like you are hacking and slashing, because that is what you will be doing. With a mix of brains, tactics and style. I very much think that even people who are bound and determined to hate it will start to see that there's more going on here than God of War.

And dare I say, there's even more going on in God of War than you're prepared to admit. Red orbs aren't that far off from experience points, after all.

Commenceth the rage if you must! But discussion is encouraged instead.

[Mike Laidlaw]

2papercuts wrote...

a better question is it a button masher?
and is the pausing is like ME2 or DAO

No, it is not a button masher. The pausing is exactly like DA:O.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Edit: Beaten by Laidlaw again! *angry stare*

*cackles in abject glee*

Still, Dave, I appreciate you jumping in!

[Mike Laidlaw]

The Lyons wrote...
Um, okay? So, what you are saying is that DA 2 isn't a hack and slash because you have to change armor and use abilities? Well, all my fears are assuaged, gentlemen. 

No disrespect meant, of course. But I don't think that word means what you think it means.

RPG is something of a continuum, isn't it? I mean, is DAO a hack and slash? Is Fable? Is Gothic? Is Oblivion? I dunno! Because I don't have a hard and fast definition.

To me, having inventory and abilities, rather than move chains is, in fact, what sets an RPG apart from a brawler. For you, it is clearly something different. Perhaps if you told me what that one thing that would set the two apart is, I could actually calm your unsteadied nerves.

I'm like laudanum.

[Mary Kirby]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It could be Tetris with morality questions (don't ask me how that's possible) and I'd still argue to the death that it's an RPG.

Oh, that's an easy one. That I tetromino you've been waiting for that will clear four rows at once? It won't appear until you agree to kill a kitten. Doing so will immediately cause all your J and S shaped blocks to revolt, and you will have to send in squares to put down the rebellion.

[David Gaider]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
I'm like laudanum.

WARNING: MIKE CAN INDUCE EUPHORIA, CONSTIPATION AND MAY CAUSE DEPENDENCY. HE IS NOT TO BE SNORTED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

It could be Tetris with morality questions (don't ask me how that's possible) and I'd still argue to the death that it's an RPG.

Oh, that's an easy one. That I tetromino you've been waiting for that will clear four rows at once? It won't appear until you agree to kill a kitten. Doing so will immediately cause all your J and S shaped blocks to revolt, and you will have to send in squares to put down the rebellion.

Luckily, there's already a pantheon for that campaign setting.

[Mike Laidlaw]

The Lyons wrote...

No nerves, here. Just thought the explanation given was a bit off kilter. [By the way, what constitutes a RPG to me is the engaging story and the ability for flexibility and influence with/on its course. But that is me.]

Oh, well, then you are all kinds of good.