1658 réponses à ce sujet

[John Epler]

Let's try to keep this away from JRPG vs. WRPG. Not really the place for it - and both styles of game have their specific idiosyncrasies. Suggesting that one or the other is better is entirely a matter of opinion, and not really on-topic.

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

A simple solution would be to show off the PC version in regular gameplay (not varrick's wet dream) with a full party. I share your concerns though.

A full party, pause-and-play, and a high tactical camera.

One of the problems with these videos, I think, is that they don't resemble at all the DAO we played because we played DAO very differently.

It's possible that any combat  video that doesn't feature pausing will look fast to me.  It's possible that any combat video that doesn't use a high camera at least some of the time will look chaotic to me.

There's a reason I use these features when I play, and those reasons are still there when I see gameplay videos.

I pull out the camera at the start of almost every battle as a sort of establishing shot.  It gives me a quick look at the terrain and the disposition of enemy forces, and from there I can make decisions.  I do often bring the camera back in for the actual fight because the lower camera (in DAO) had a much greater viewing distance (this is why I think the high camera should have been allowed to roam more).

I not only play very similar to this, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Those of us (like me) who think the game looks very different were playing at full tactical view on a PC pausing the combat more than letting it run.  The console DA:O players couldn't play that way if they wanted to - they didn't have the camera controls.  Those who played on the console, or played on the PC and never paused combat nor pulled up for a bird's eye view, will think things look remarkably similar I suppose.

Honestly, not for more than maybe a half dozen fights (out of 4 plays of DA:O) did I spend anytime in combat down on the ground, over the shoulder.

I think a good portion of the reaction of such is due to this.

[NKKKK]

lol u mad

[rexil]

Brockololly wrote...

Faz432 wrote...



As well as these large floating health bars.

Yeah...I don't recall those being in Origins except maybe if you had the Survival skill I think. And even then it was only if you moused over them? 

Well the health bars are just for the targeted ones, if you look at it in motion you will notice that. And for this picture, it's showing the health bars of the Darkspaws that will be hit, so it's like if all of them where targeted. 

[Annihilator27]

I like it, Still a work in progress for those that dont like it. My gripe is thats a alot of blood lol.

[Morroian]

David Gaider wrote...
That's where I stand, personally. I'm not one for combat, myself-- I don't like the idea of things getting hectic. If they did, I'd probably just turn my brain off and mash buttons until I got frustrated. The pacing of the combat feels the same in DA2, to me, and I'm fully able to follow what my companions are doing and give orders if I wish (which is what I usually do). PC users will have the auto-attack, as well, which will make it easier to give orders and leave to control someone else if they wish. But the individual's mileage will vary, like you said. I think maybe it's easy to confuse the speed of the animations with the pacing of the combat overall.

This post from David should be emphasized.

[John Epler]

annihilator27 wrote...

I like it, Still a work in progress for those that dont like it. My gripe is thats a alot of blood lol.

I can tell you that the amount of blood in the recorded footage is not indicative of the amount of blood in the game as a whole. What works for a narrated exaggeration doesn't necessarily work for the rest.

[Zenjamin]

I would just like to take this moment to say that both the mods here seem extreemly patient, intellegent, and in tune with their fans.





I have my concers with this game.

Mainly focusing around the conversation wheel and the voice acting.



But if everyone working on the project has the same spirit as the mods I have seen here, I am nor too worried.

[tool_bot]

filaminstrel wrote...

PARAGON87 wrote...

They're probably going to work it into the lore that this sword is made of a steel that makes it light as a feather, yet slices like a katana.

Well, Dragonbone is supposed to be unnaturally light and strong.

I would hope so considering it can fly as gracefully as it does.

[The Lyons]

Thought about it, and this still looks terrible. Though the "amount of blood" and ease of combat may change, the environment is still bland and low res, the character models are the same as (if not worse than) Origins, the lolspikes armor/animations look utterly we-todd-ed, and the camera looks much more oriented for an action game. I suppose we will probably be getting a grimdark Fable, without the novel setting.

[Faz432]

rexil wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Faz432 wrote...



As well as these large floating health bars.

Yeah...I don't recall those being in Origins except maybe if you had the Survival skill I think. And even then it was only if you moused over them? 

Well the health bars are just for the targeted ones, if you look at it in motion you will notice that. And for this picture, it's showing the health bars of the Darkspaws that will be hit, so it's like if all of them where targeted. 

They had health bars for targeted enemies in DA:O but they were alot smaller, darker and less intrusive, I had to look back at a gameplay video to confirm it did, shows how low key they were.

These are really bright and in your face which is just unnecessary, why do we need to know their health anyway? it's not like you're going to stop hitting them when they've only a bit of life left, when they're dead that's when you stop hitting them.

As the judge said to the cop

'why did you fire 10 bullets into the suspect'

the cop replies

'that's all I had in the magazine'

Modifié par Faz432, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:14 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Faz432 wrote...

rexil wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Faz432 wrote...



As well as these large floating health bars.

Yeah...I don't recall those being in Origins except maybe if you had the Survival skill I think. And even then it was only if you moused over them? 

Well the health bars are just for the targeted ones, if you look at it in motion you will notice that. And for this picture, it's showing the health bars of the Darkspaws that will be hit, so it's like if all of them where targeted. 

They had health bars for targeted enemies in DA:O but they were alot smaller, darker and less intrusive, I had to look back at a gameplay video to confirm it did, shows how low key they were.

These are really bright and in your face which is just unnecessary, why do we need to know their health anyway? it's not like you're going to stop hitting them when they've only a bit of life left, when they're dead that's when you stop hitting them.

As the judge said to the cop

'why did you fire 10 bullets into the suspect'

the cop replies

'that's all I had in the magazine'

The difference being the health bars only show up when you had the cursor over a target and were smaller and less intrusive. Unless its different on the 360/PS3 in the first place. I'm only going by the PC version as its the version I have experience with.

[Gvaz]

Faz432 wrote...

Really like the detail going into the armor design shown here, clasps, buckles, straps, pouches all a real improvement from DA:O for me.

Not for me. I liked the realistic fantasy armor. Now it just seems "barbaric" and homegrown instead of some super rare armor you found in a chest under a castle.

And yeah, other than yourself health bars are really unnessessary, I'm going to attack a creature until it stops moving or does it's "blarg i am ded" animation. That's when it's dead.

Modifié par GvazElite, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[Silentmode]

Xbox player personally and it looked like a smoother better looking version of dao from where I stand. I rarely pause while playing (unless I'm playing on Nightmare where its almost required to get anywhere), not because I don't like to be tactical, because I like the added difficulty to try and make real time descisions. So I really liked what I saw though I can see why it could put pc players off. I also don't mind the speed and animations, it wouldnt be the first time something is exaggerated in a video game.



All of this however is a backdrop to the story at the end of the day for me. If the story and characters are great and the combat is a bust I would still call it a great game.

[Nyaore]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The difference being the health bars only show up when you had the cursor over a target and were smaller and less intrusive. Unless its different on the 360/PS3 in the first place. I'm only going by the PC version as its the version I have experience with.

360 Gameplay: (Relevent part starts as 0:40)

So it's sort of similar to how things were working in the unofficial demo from what I can remember off the top of my head. Still, even the 360 health bars weren't nearly as big as the ones in the demo.

Modifié par Nyaore, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:21 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I'm actually currently playing as a 2H Warrior and I don't find it clunky or whatever label those who want a fast paced action game, and are justifying the extreme changes want to call it. There's so few CRPG's and RPG's in general that aren't over glorified button mashers at this point with very little tactical sense involved at all, if thats what people want so bad, go play those games,

Strawman, I don't want a button masher either.

How so? Can you name me a list of current crpg's that currently don't follow the diablo/torchlight/Oblivon model rather than the BG/BG2/DA model? I would imagine the list would be pretty small including The Witcher whose combat is also a click fest.

Lets face it, the classic trappings of a BG type of CRPG are few and far between these days unfortunately.

[Dhanik]

Aww, the stupid video was already removed...



/rage

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Nyaore wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The difference being the health bars only show up when you had the cursor over a target and were smaller and less intrusive. Unless its different on the 360/PS3 in the first place. I'm only going by the PC version as its the version I have experience with.

360 Gameplay: (Relevent part starts as 0:40)

So it's sort of similar to how things were working in the unofficial demo from what I can remember off the top of my head. Still, even the 360 health bars weren't nearly as big as the ones in the demo.

Ugh, kinda feel bad for the console players then. You're right though the health bars were smaller.

[rexil]

Faz432 wrote...

rexil wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Faz432 wrote...



As well as these large floating health bars.

Yeah...I don't recall those being in Origins except maybe if you had the Survival skill I think. And even then it was only if you moused over them? 

Well the health bars are just for the targeted ones, if you look at it in motion you will notice that. And for this picture, it's showing the health bars of the Darkspaws that will be hit, so it's like if all of them where targeted. 

They had health bars for targeted enemies in DA:O but they were alot smaller, darker and less intrusive, I had to look back at a gameplay video to confirm it did, shows how low key they were.

These are really bright and in your face which is just unnecessary, why do we need to know their health anyway? it's not like you're going to stop hitting them when they've only a bit of life left, when they're dead that's when you stop hitting them.

As the judge said to the cop

'why did you fire 10 bullets into the suspect'

the cop replies

'that's all I had in the magazine'

I guess the consoles need to have some things bigger to be displayed properly on a TV screen.
And why you need to know they health? To time an attack, an ability to kill them in the right time, it's useful, for me at least.

[errant_knight]

Kerilus wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

So...you guys know this is the bit that's supposed to look exaggerated, right? I mean, I think this is one of the most hideous things I've ever seen, stylistically, but I'm still not going to jump all over the lack of realism. Do I hope that the teller of the tale is color blind and has terrible taste in armor? Sure! But we really can't judge the combat. We can't even judge the effectiveness of this section as a storytelling device. I think making the demo out of a section of the game that doesn't reflect real gameplay was a bizarre decision, but I suppose it emphasises the main points of the marketing department--and I'm really not understanding their approach to advertising this game at all.

It seems the ridiculous moves, including the jump, the jump! will be in high level gameplay.
Only how easily killed the darkspawn are , the power of the PC, and the amount of gore are exaggerated.

That probably means that if it's in there as is, it isn't a passive ability, so one could not use ones that they find particularly...um, out of place. Not saying I found what I saw ideal, at all, but I'd have to see it in footage that was designed to be kind of silly before I can really come to an opinion, although I'm a tad dubious. I understand your difficulty with that particular animation entirely, It reminded me of one of those arena combat games. I would find using it completely immersion breaking, if it stands as is. It wouldn't be hard to make a separate set of animations that are similar, but less exaggerated, for real combat, though. And there's no combat move that one is actually forced to use other than basic stuff, assuming that we still have the choice of activating abilities.

Modifié par errant_knight, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:29 .

[errant_knight]

Morroian wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
That's where I stand, personally. I'm not one for combat, myself-- I don't like the idea of things getting hectic. If they did, I'd probably just turn my brain off and mash buttons until I got frustrated. The pacing of the combat feels the same in DA2, to me, and I'm fully able to follow what my companions are doing and give orders if I wish (which is what I usually do). PC users will have the auto-attack, as well, which will make it easier to give orders and leave to control someone else if they wish. But the individual's mileage will vary, like you said. I think maybe it's easy to confuse the speed of the animations with the pacing of the combat overall.

This post from David should be emphasized.

I find this extremely encouraging. I'd prefer if the animations didn't look super-human, but I can probably suck it up if combat speed is essentially the same.

[Gvaz]

Nyaore wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The difference being the health bars only show up when you had the cursor over a target and were smaller and less intrusive. Unless its different on the 360/PS3 in the first place. I'm only going by the PC version as its the version I have experience with.

360 Gameplay: (Relevent part starts as 0:40)

So it's sort of similar to how things were working in the unofficial demo from what I can remember off the top of my head. Still, even the 360 health bars weren't nearly as big as the ones in the demo.

That looks exactly like the PC combat except with worse controls. Also I lol'd a bit at the comments saying Jade Empire was good and KOTOR was bad. I'm afraid it's the other way around gents.

Modifié par GvazElite, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[Kileyan]

PARAGON87 wrote...

They're probably going to work it into the lore that this sword is made of a steel that makes it light as a feather, yet slices like a katana.

Well this is a low magic world, not a zero magic combat realism sim.

We already have magical versions of armor that give much more protection than regular armors. The named magic armors are not 2 feet thick steel, they are magic.

Why is it so hard to believe that magic infused swords with such properties, especially very old swords. Maybe there was a time where fighting dragons and huge beasts was very common. Did you fight them with a roman gladius that barely penetrated their fatty layer, or did you make some huge swords to cleave huge things?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting huge anime swords or whatnot, but this sword in the vid is hardly a cartoony sword, its just kinda big:)

[MerinTB]

filaminstrel wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Those of us (like me) who think the game looks very different were playing at full tactical view on a PC pausing the combat more than letting it run.  The console DA:O players couldn't play that way if they wanted to - they didn't have the camera controls.  Those who played on the console, or played on the PC and never paused combat nor pulled up for a bird's eye view, will think things look remarkably similar I suppose.

Honestly, not for more than maybe a half dozen fights (out of 4 plays of DA:O) did I spend anytime in combat down on the ground, over the shoulder.

I think a good portion of the reaction of such is due to this.

I played on the PC, paused frequently, always pulled up for a bird's eye view, and still think things look fairly similar. They look like it would look if I could record my game and play it back without all of the pausing. (although I would be issuing more orders and not just letting Bethany do her thing-- well, maybe not here, since this is a demonstration of lawnmowing mooks, not tactical play)

I PLAYED from full above camera all that I could.  I'm not a FP nor even a TP player for games (one reason Bethesda games aren't favs of mine, as much as I do enjoy Fallout 3 for what it is.)

It looks nothing like how I played.  My combat was very slow and methodical, and the characters were all way down...

here, outside of cutscenes, this is how my game looked...



compare that to this



Ok... and my combat looked like that still screen most of the time, while DA2's combat we've seen looks like how the video runs.  Slow and methodical vs. fast paced.

The video doesn't use pause and play much at all, and it's the console version... so OF COURSE it looks very different to me.  I didn't experience DA:O that way AT ALL.

Modifié par MerinTB, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:31 .