99 réponses à ce sujet

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

And yet again we go back to why Alinora would just give a
much-needed Mabari away. The Warden does not need help so
desperately that they need a dog to help them out. The
Mabari population, however, needs to keep its numbers up. If
Alinora are as smart as they'd like to think they are they'd
keep the dog and give the Orlesian Warden some golden
GLORIOUS armor as a gift instead. The Orlesians seem to
enjoy shiny things.

The whole premise behind this discussion is beyond silly.   
First off, we're talking about  Awakening,   a game that lets
you continue your Warden's story even if he made the ultimate
sacrifice...and DIED killing the Arch Demon.    Yet,   despite
this most epic of  illogical, unbelievable     in game   realities,
here we are, watching people tell us how   "unlikely" it would
be to have  the Ruler of Fereldan give the Commander of the
Gray Wardens a Mabari of his own at the start of  the game.

Nice fish you have there; red herring, isn't it?   

By the way,     Just so we're on the same page here,  We're
talking about the  same Ruler of Fereldan who decided to
give  an entire Arling to the wardens, yes?  Do you really
think  Anora values  one mabari more than an entire Arling ?

What about how the nobles in Amaranthine might react to the new Arl having a Mabari?

Incidently,  Both  Anora  and the Vigil's  Seneshal tell the
Warden commander, in no uncertain terms, that the situation
IS desperate, and that he DOES need all the help he can get,
so.....

This is after you get there, and can see this for yourself; it still doesn't explain why a Mabari has to be included.

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

And yet again we go back to why Alinora would just give a
much-needed Mabari away. The Warden does not need help so
desperately that they need a dog to help them out. The
Mabari population, however, needs to keep its numbers up. If
Alinora are as smart as they'd like to think they are they'd
keep the dog and give the Orlesian Warden some golden
GLORIOUS armor as a gift instead. The Orlesians seem to
enjoy shiny things.

The whole premise behind this discussion is beyond silly.   
First off, we're talking about  Awakening,   a game that lets
you continue your Warden's story even if he made the ultimate
sacrifice...and DIED killing the Arch Demon.    Yet,   despite
this most epic of  illogical, unbelievable     in game   realities,
here we are, watching people tell us how   "unlikely" it would
be to have  the Ruler of Fereldan give the Commander of the
Gray Wardens a Mabari of his own at the start of  the game.

Nice fish you have there; red herring, isn't it?   

How in the world, is that anything other than a pointedly DIRECT response to the passage I was quoting  AND previous posts from the same poster?

ladydesire wrote...

By the way,     Just so we're on the same page here,  We're
talking about the  same Ruler of Fereldan who decided to
give  an entire Arling to the wardens, yes?  Do you really
think  Anora values  one mabari more than an entire Arling ?

What about how the nobles in Amaranthine might react to the new Arl having a Mabari?

Who cares.    And why would you think they'd react anyway?   Do they react to Sir Pounce a lot?  Do they react to ANY of your companions?     Do they react to anything but  the warden himself?

ladydesire wrote...

Incidently,  Both  Anora  and the Vigil's  Seneshal tell the
Warden commander, in no uncertain terms, that the situation
IS desperate, and that he DOES need all the help he can get,
so.....

This is after you get there,   and can see this for yourself; it still doesn't explain why a Mabari has to be included.

Was anyone on this thread arguing that a Mabari HAS to be included?

Oh wait, what is that I'm smelling?    Is that  a burning straw man?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:03 .

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

By the way,     Just so we're on the same page here,
 We're
talking about the  same Ruler of Fereldan who decided to
give  an entire Arling to the wardens, yes?  Do you really
think  Anora values  one mabari more than an entire Arling ?

What about how the nobles in Amaranthine might react to the
new Arl having a Mabari?

Who cares.    And why would you think they'd react anyway?  
Do they react to Sir Pounce a lot?  Do they react to ANY of your
companions?     Do they react to anything but  the warden
himself?

Why do I think they would react? Because there are numerous occasions in Origins where NPCs react to him being in the party, and I don't see human nobles in Ferelden just shrugging their shoulders and ignoring foreigners, Elves and Dwarves having a Mabari during Awakening.

[Sabariel]

Yrkoon wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

And yet again we go back to why Alinora would just give a much-needed Mabari away. The Warden does not need help so desperately that they need a dog to help them out. The Mabari population, however, needs to keep its numbers up. If Alinora are as smart as they'd like to think they are they'd keep the dog and give the Orlesian Warden some golden GLORIOUS armor as a gift instead. The Orlesians seem to enjoy shiny things.

The whole premise behind this discussion is beyond silly.    First off, we're talking about  Awakening,   a game that lets you continue your Warden's story even if he made the ultimate sacrifice...and DIED killing the Arch Demon.    Yet,   despite this most epic of  illogical, unbelievable     in game  realities, here we are, watching people tell us how   "unlikely" it would be to have  the Ruler of Fereldan give the Commander of the Gray Wardens a Mabari of his own at the start of  the game.   

By the way,     Just so we're on the same page here,  We're talking about the  same Ruler of Fereldan who decided to give an entire Arling to the wardens, yes?  Do you really think  Anora values  one mabari more than an entire Arling?


Incidently,  Both  Anora  and the Vigil's  Seneshal tell the Warden commander, in no uncertain terms, that the situation IS desperate, and that he DOES need all the help he can get, so.....

It's not that the dog is valued more than land. It's that the dog is needed more elsewhere and a smart leader would recognize that.

-Mabari pups are needed
-Orlesians do not have the same reverance for Mabari
-There is no guarantee that the Mabari would imprint to the Orlesian Warden

That's three strikes against a Mabari being a good welcome gift for an Orlesian Warden. A good leader would think of something more suited to someone from a foreign land.

As for the situation being desperate, it isn't. They say it will be difficult, but it's nothing like in Origins where you had to make an army out of nothing. Right off the bat you have three Wardens: Nathaniel, Anders, and Oghren which is already more than you had in Origins. And not even five minutes after Varel and Alinora tell me how difficult things will be I'm sending men to all points of the compass so obviously I already have a lot of them at my command. Awakening does not require you to build an army like Origins did because you already have an army at your disposal. You're required to keep your army happy, but that isn't difficult at all.

Modifié par Sabariel, 04 octobre 2010 - 10:04 .

[Yrkoon]

Sabariel wrote...


It's not that the dog is valued more than land. It's that the dog is needed more elsewhere and a smart leader would recognize that.

Is it?    At the time of Awakening,  are there surface-based Darkspawn  incursions  going on elsewhere in Fereldan?  Is there a Nobility/peasant uprising occuring elsewhere?   Is  a Foreign country invading?

Sabariel wrote...

-Mabari pups are needed
-Orlesians do not have the same reverance for Mabari
-There is no guarantee that the Mabari would imprint to the Orlesian Warden

That's three strikes against a Mabari being a good welcome gift for an Orlesian Warden. A good leader would think of something more suited to someone from a foreign land.

Well, I don't call that 3 strikes.  Your first point has no in-game backing at all, your second point  asks us to assume a  specific warden Opinion, thereby  killing   any  role-play option for a player  (who's to say MY Orlesian Warden doesn't want a Dog?).  Your third point has some merit, but of course,  even Origins allowed a Dwarf who's only been on the Surface a few days to succeed in an imprinting process with a Mabari.   But   for some reason not yet explained to me, it is  out of the realms of believability for the same process to occur in Awakening....

Sabariel wrote...
As for the situation being desperate, it isn't. They say it will be difficult, but it's nothing like in Origins where you had to make an army out of nothing. Right off the bat you have three Wardens: Nathaniel, Anders, and Oghren which is already more than you had in Origins. And not even five minutes after Varel and Alinora tell me how difficult things will be I'm sending men to all points of the compass so obviously I already have a lot of them at my command. Awakening does not require you to build an army like Origins did because you already have an army at your disposal. You're required to keep your army happy, but that isn't difficult at all.

"The fate of Fereldan lies in your hands"  <-----Anora's exact words.   (translation: the fate of the country *I* rule is in your hands, warden)

You don't see this as  important enough for a leader to part with  1 (one) mabari ?  Really?   I think you're  kindo Over-valuing  Mabaris.    Dog isn't the only Mabari in  Fereldan with the ability to Breed anyway

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 octobre 2010 - 12:20 .

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
What about how the nobles in Amaranthine might react to the
new Arl having a Mabari?

Who cares.    And why would you think they'd react anyway?  
Do they react to Sir Pounce a lot?  Do they react to ANY of your
companions?     Do they react to anything but  the warden
himself?

Why do I think they would react? Because there are numerous occasions in Origins where NPCs react to him being in the party, and I don't see human nobles in Ferelden just shrugging their shoulders and ignoring foreigners, Elves and Dwarves having a Mabari during Awakening.

I can think of No examples (aside from the specific Human noble origin story where an actual Dog QUEST is given to you by your parents) where a NOBLE  (your claim) reacts  negatively to  your dog.

[Sabariel]

Yrkoon wrote...
Well, I don't call that 3 strikes.  Your first point has no in-game backing at all, your second point  asks us to assume a  specific warden Opinion, thereby  killing   any  role-play option for a player  (who's to say MY Orlesian Warden doesn't want a Dog?).  Your third point has some merit, but of course,  Even Origins allowed a Dwarf who's only been on the Surface a few days to succeed in an imprinting process with a Mabari, for for some reason, it is  out of the realms of believability for the same process to occur in Awakening....

As for the situation being desperate, it isn't. They say it will be difficult, but it's nothing like in Origins where you had to make an army out of nothing. Right off the bat you have three Wardens: Nathaniel, Anders, and Oghren which is already more than you had in Origins. And not even five minutes after Varel and Alinora tell me how difficult things will be I'm sending men to all points of the compass so obviously I already have a lot of them at my command. Awakening does not require you to build an army like Origins did because you already have an army at your disposal. You're required to keep your army happy, but that isn't difficult at all.

We learn in Witch Hunt the whereabouts of Dog. He was making more puppies because puppies were needed badly. That's good enough "backing" for me.

Orlesians do not hold the same reverance for Mabari that Fereldans do. Perhaps they could come to see the value of a Mabari, but as it stands the Mabari is not part of their culture. They would not see a Mabari as a gift.

Dog imprints on a non-HN noble because you save his life. No one just gives him to you and he just automatically loves you. You save him from death.

Again, a smart leader would find a gift more suited to an Orlesian.

"The fate of Fereldan lies in your hands"  <-----Anora's
exact words.   (translation: the fate of the country *I* rule is in your
hands, warden)

You don't see this as  important enough for a
leader to part with One  (1) mabari ?  Really?   I think you're  kindo
Over-valuing  Mabaris.    Dog isn't the only Mabari in  Fereldan with
the ability to Breed anyway

A melodramatic line. There was no sense of desperation in Awakening at all. You have Wardens and an army at your disposal.

Dog is described as "a promising member of the breed" and who knows how many males are actually left?  His value as a breeder far exceeds his value as a fighter at that point in time.

Modifié par Sabariel, 05 octobre 2010 - 12:26 .

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...
What about how the nobles in Amaranthine might react to the
new Arl having a Mabari?

Who cares.    And why would you think they'd react anyway?  
Do they react to Sir Pounce a lot?  Do they react to ANY of your
companions?     Do they react to anything but  the warden
himself?

Why do I think they would react? Because there are numerous
occasions in Origins where NPCs react to him being in the
party, and I don't see human nobles in Ferelden just shrugging
their shoulders and ignoring foreigners, Elves and Dwarves
having a Mabari during Awakening.

I can think of No examples (aside from the specific Human
noble origin story where an actual Dog QUEST is given to you
by your parents) where a NOBLE  (your claim) reacts 
negatively to  your dog.

There are more important things for them (the human nobles) to be concerned about; namely the approaching Blight and who is going to lead the armies against it. In Amaranthine, you (the PC) are the focus of the attention of certain nobles who would have yet another reason to dislike you if you had a Mabari, especially if you were an Orlesian.

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Why do I think they would react? Because there are numerous
occasions in Origins where NPCs react to him being in the
party, and I don't see human nobles in Ferelden just shrugging
their shoulders and ignoring foreigners, Elves and Dwarves
having a Mabari during Awakening.

I can think of No examples (aside from the specific Human
noble origin story where an actual Dog QUEST is given to you
by your parents) where a NOBLE  (your claim) reacts 
negatively to  your dog.

There are more important things for them (the human nobles) to be concerned about; namely the approaching Blight and who is going to lead the armies against it. In Amaranthine,

So much for your claim then.

ladydesire wrote...
 you (the PC) are the focus of the attention of certain nobles who would have yet another reason to dislike you if you had a Mabari, especially if you were an Orlesian.

^ are Mabaris a negative  symbol among nobles in Fereldan?   Nope.    You  are  making a  completely nonsensical argument.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:28 .

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Why do I think they would react? Because there are numerous
occasions in Origins where NPCs react to him being in the
party, and I don't see human nobles in Ferelden just shrugging
their shoulders and ignoring foreigners, Elves and Dwarves
having a Mabari during Awakening.

I can think of No examples (aside from the specific Human
noble origin story where an actual Dog QUEST is given to you
by your parents) where a NOBLE  (your claim) reacts 
negatively to  your dog.

There are more important things for them (the human nobles)
to be concerned about; namely the approaching Blight and
who is going to lead the armies against it. In Amaranthine,

So much for your claim then.

So you're denying that any NPC reacts negatively to Dog's presence, simply because human nobles are more preoccupied with the Blight?

ladydesire wrote...
 you (the PC) are the focus of the attention of certain nobles
who would have yet another reason to dislike you if you had a
Mabari, especially if you were an Orlesian.

^ are Mabaris a negative  symbol among nobles in Fereldan?  
Nope.    You  are  making a  completely nonsensical argument.

So you don't believe that human nobles see it as a grievous insult if an unwanted new leader was being forced on them and that leader had a Mabari? You truly think they wouldn't have some kind of comment about that?

[Blastback]

Sabariel wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

And what if your faithful Mabari hound wants a break from your Warden?

But my Warden is nice and fun and dog friendly!  Just like me!

Even the best of friends need a breather at some point

My dog and I never needed a break from each other.  But then, my dog was a Labrador Retriver, so she was just a big love sponge. 

I love Dog.  My favorite part of Witch Hunt was when Morrigan played with him.

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

So much for your claim then.

So you're denying that any NPC reacts negatively to Dog's presence, simply because human nobles are more preoccupied with the Blight?

<gag>


Before you dishonestly, and shamelessly,  changed your argument, you were talking about NOBLEMAN reactions to dog.  To which there are NONE in Origins save for your mother''s if you're a human noble.

ladydesire wrote...

^ are Mabaris a negative  symbol among nobles in Fereldan?  
Nope.    You  are  making a  completely nonsensical argument.

So you don't believe that human nobles see it as a grievous insult if an unwanted new leader was being forced on them and that leader had a Mabari? You truly think they wouldn't have some kind of comment about that?

Hmm.  Nope.  In Fereldan, a Mabari is not a Negative  symbol at all.  The King has whole kennels of them.  There's really no way  to argue around this.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 octobre 2010 - 01:43 .

[Gaius Octavian]

Yrkoon is the only one bringing any logic to this debate. To the rest of you, the "I like bull**** forum" is that way --->

[Sabariel]

This is why I don't have a head for debates. After a while, I get bored of hashing over the same topic. So I'm going to say that you (Yrkoon) think it likely and I think it unlikely and leave it at that; call it a day... or forever

[ladydesire]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

Yrkoon is the only one bringing any logic to this debate. To the rest of you, the "I like bull**** forum" is that way --->

I don't agree with him, but then, neither of our opinions mean anything since Dog isn't in Awakening and the Orlesian Warden does end up with a Mabari in Witch Hunt. If Yrkoon will agree to disagree with me, I'll consider this debate closed.

[Yrkoon]

Sabariel wrote...


We learn in Witch Hunt the whereabouts of Dog. He was making more puppies because puppies were needed badly. That's good enough "backing" for me.

Right.  Do you really want to cite Witch Hunt for your argument?

What happens when you import an Orlesian Warden into Witch Hunt?    That's right.    You  get your  own Mabari.   Instantly.     No  nationality questions asked.  No imprinting involved.  Nothing.  You just get one.

Point:  you can't just pick and choose what's "likely" and what isn't.   The Dragon age franchise breaks its own rules all the time.  The only thing that's certain is that   anything is likely.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 octobre 2010 - 02:00 .

[ladydesire]

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

Aaah, and now we see arguing for argument sake.

So tell us, does all this mean that the Orlesian warden ISN'T instantly given an Mabari at the start of Witch Hunt?

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

Aaah, and now we see arguing for argument sake.

So tell us, does all this mean that the Orlesian warden ISN'T instantly given an Mabari at the start of Witch Hunt?

The Orlesian Warden (and any imported character that does not yet have Dog) only "instantly gets" the Mabari from a gameplay point of view; any of the things that we disagree on affecting whether or not the Orlesian Warden would get Dog for Awakening are irrelevent by the time Witch Hunt starts, as the codex will indicate.

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

Aaah, and now we see arguing for argument sake.

So tell us, does all this mean that the Orlesian warden ISN'T instantly given an Mabari at the start of Witch Hunt?

The Orlesian Warden (and any imported character that does not yet have Dog) only "instantly gets" the Mabari from a gameplay point of view; any of the things that we disagree on affecting whether or not the Orlesian Warden would get Dog for Awakening are irrelevent by the time Witch Hunt starts, as the codex will indicate.

Wow, you have a knack for   stating the utterly meaningless and totally missing  the point every time.

  I'll ask AGAIN:

True or false:  Despite the unlikeliness of gaining a Mabari companion without  an  imprinting process, and Despite the unlikeliness of an Orlesian  being given a Mabari as a companion,  an Orlesian  warden still gets one at the start of Witch Hunt.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 octobre 2010 - 03:34 .

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

Aaah, and now we see arguing for argument sake.

So tell us, does all this mean that the Orlesian warden ISN'T instantly given an Mabari at the start of Witch Hunt?

The Orlesian Warden (and any imported character that does not yet have Dog) only "instantly gets" the Mabari from a gameplay point of view; any of the things that we disagree on affecting whether or not the Orlesian Warden would get Dog for Awakening are irrelevent by the time Witch Hunt starts, as the codex will indicate.

Wow, you have a knack for   stating the utterly meaningless and totally missing  the point every time.

  I'll ask AGAIN:

True or false:  Despite the unlikeliness of gaining a Mabari companion without  an  imprinting process, and Despite the unlikeliness of an Orlesian  being given a Mabari as a companion,  an Orlesian  warden still gets one at the start of Witch Hunt.

Don't you think that the Orlesian Warden's sucess in defending the Arling and dealing with the Darkspawn would be enough reason to offer the opportunity to imprint one, dispite any intial reluctance to do so?

[Yrkoon]

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

ladydesire wrote...

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

Aaah, and now we see arguing for argument sake.

So tell us, does all this mean that the Orlesian warden ISN'T instantly given an Mabari at the start of Witch Hunt?

The Orlesian Warden (and any imported character that does not yet have Dog) only "instantly gets" the Mabari from a gameplay point of view; any of the things that we disagree on affecting whether or not the Orlesian Warden would get Dog for Awakening are irrelevent by the time Witch Hunt starts, as the codex will indicate.

Wow, you have a knack for   stating the utterly meaningless and totally missing  the point every time.

  I'll ask AGAIN:

True or false:  Despite the unlikeliness of gaining a Mabari companion without  an  imprinting process, and Despite the unlikeliness of an Orlesian  being given a Mabari as a companion,  an Orlesian  warden still gets one at the start of Witch Hunt.

Don't you think that the Orlesian Warden's sucess in defending the Arling and dealing with the Darkspawn would be enough reason to offer the opportunity to imprint one, dispite any intial reluctance to do so?

What in the world are you talking about?

There's no imprinting process done in Witch Hunt.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Yrkoon]

  By the way...

ladydesire wrote...

The way the Orlesian Warden dialog is written indicates that Sabariel is right; one option gives the impression that the Orlesian had been uncertain about how useful the dog would be. I haven't explored the other options yet, but it looks like most roleplaying options are covered without downplaying the reason given for the Mabari not being available in Awakening. But then, it appears that you don't care about little things like that.

::: shakes head  ::::

This is such errant BS.   Typical of just about all your  posts on this thread.   The Orlesian warden dialogue doesn't suggest any such thing.  There are like 4 options

1)  Do you smell Morrigan's scent?  (Dog respons with a sad whimper)
2) the wardens are right, you're  quite useful!  (Dog responds with  Happy Bark)
3) Who's a cute little puppy!  Yes you are!  (Happy bark)
4)  You'll help me find the witch, won't you buddy?  (Happy bark)



 <gag> 

Stop wasting my time.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 octobre 2010 - 04:25 .

[ladydesire]

Yrkoon wrote...

What in the world are you talking about?

There's no imprinting process done in Witch Hunt.

Is there any imprinting done in the Human Noble Origin? I don't recall it, so why is it so hard to believe that any giving of the Mabari and imprinting happens before the Orlesian Warden reaches Flemeth's Hut? In fact, according to the codex for the Orlesian Warden, the Mabari is a gift from Teryn Fergus Cousland of HIghever.

[Turran]

The thing is, I love the Dog but I never actually use them because of various reasons, but they look awesome.

I wished it was in Awakening aswell! But then I got thinking and I thought this: "Well, yes it would be nice, but I am now Warden Commander? I am sure I just left the Dog at the keep while I went for a visit to Amaranthine" ...I guess you didn't have to take them everywhere?