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[Xilizhra]

The Grey Warden's already know where they are.

They just can reach them.



What makes you think you can get to them?

It'll be difficult. Becoming the queen of Ferelden is a start, but only that; I'll need an army at my back willing to launch a serious offensive against the darkspawn in their own lairs. Bhelen may well be helpful there, but either way, if I'm strong enough to reach just one of the gods' prisons, it may be strong enough to help find the other one.

[Giggles_Manically]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Grey Warden's already know where they are.
They just can reach them.

What makes you think you can get to them?

It'll be difficult. Becoming the queen of Ferelden is a start, but only that; I'll need an army at my back willing to launch a serious offensive against the darkspawn in their own lairs. Bhelen may well be helpful there, but either way, if I'm strong enough to reach just one of the gods' prisons, it may be strong enough to help find the other one.

So you are going to use an army of heretics out in the open and get away with it?
How can you do alone what the Warden's in all their power have not been able to?

[Xilizhra]

Not an army of heretics; I want Ferelden's own army behind me. The cultists are just needed to facilitate the training of my revised Grey Wardens, as I intend to remake the entire Ferelden order in my own image. Getting rid of Orlais' Wardens would be nice, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable future... hmmm...

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Whom did you side with?
I went for Kolgrim, for a few reasons: I'm pissing on someone's religion no matter what I do, I felt bad about intruding on a village and then annihilating it, and... well, I think dragons are cool. Also, my Warden is a blood mage whose hunger for knowledge is great indeed, and who drank Avernus' little concoction without hesitation. Of course, her girlfriend was pissed, but amusingly, the night after I defiled Andraste's ashes, Leliana and I spent the night together...

I sided with Kolgrim as well. Given that mages seemed to be treated as equals among the pro-Dragon Andraste group, and the Chantry was (in my POV as an elven mage) evil incarnate, I saw them as the lesser of two evils. Allowing the Chantry any further leverage of power in Thedas through the Urn was not going to happen.

[Giggles_Manically]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not an army of heretics; I want Ferelden's own army behind me. The cultists are just needed to facilitate the training of my revised Grey Wardens, as I intend to remake the entire Ferelden order in my own image. Getting rid of Orlais' Wardens would be nice, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable future... hmmm...

So whats to stop the Warden's from killing you while you try to do this?

Reaver is a useless spec anyway. 
The Warden's are far more powerful than some sick cult living in the mountains.
Also how do you plan on marching a small army against the Darkspawn, when even Ferelden and Orzamar combined still only manage to take back a few Thaigs?

The Warden is only in charge of the Warden's in Ferelden if you try and do something like that the First Warden would counter you, or the Chantry.

[Xilizhra]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not an army of heretics; I want Ferelden's own army behind me. The cultists are just needed to facilitate the training of my revised Grey Wardens, as I intend to remake the entire Ferelden order in my own image. Getting rid of Orlais' Wardens would be nice, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable future... hmmm...

So whats to stop the Warden's from killing you while you try to do this?

Reaver is a useless spec anyway. 
The Warden's are far more powerful than some sick cult living in the mountains.
Also how do you plan on marching a small army against the Darkspawn, when even Ferelden and Orzamar combined still only manage to take back a few Thaigs?

The Warden is only in charge of the Warden's in Ferelden if you try and do something like that the First Warden would counter you, or the Chantry.

Then clearly, my next goal is First Wardenhood.

[Giggles_Manically]

Xilizhra wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not an army of heretics; I want Ferelden's own army behind me. The cultists are just needed to facilitate the training of my revised Grey Wardens, as I intend to remake the entire Ferelden order in my own image. Getting rid of Orlais' Wardens would be nice, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable future... hmmm...

So whats to stop the Warden's from killing you while you try to do this?

Reaver is a useless spec anyway. 
The Warden's are far more powerful than some sick cult living in the mountains.
Also how do you plan on marching a small army against the Darkspawn, when even Ferelden and Orzamar combined still only manage to take back a few Thaigs?

The Warden is only in charge of the Warden's in Ferelden if you try and do something like that the First Warden would counter you, or the Chantry.

Then clearly, my next goal is First Wardenhood.

Than you have to give up being Queen, since the Anderfells is around the world.
You can try but I doubt you can just say "giime!" and get the First Warden spot.

From the things we learn about the Warden's up there, they are as much politicans as wardens. 
By the time you can do anything your Calling will be up.

[Xilizhra]

Purged for security's sake.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Xilizhra wrote...

Purged for security's sake.

This is starting to sound like a Princess Mary Sue Cous Cous fic.

[Dhanik]

I like how the first few posts in the thread made the OP looks completely dumb.



Bravo, guys, bravo.

[Obadiah]

I've only had to make the choice 4 times, but every time I get past the Guardian I simply cannot go through with tainting the ashes. The experience with the Guardian and the spirits is too... uh... spiritual (even though that ghost you meet is just a fake spirit). Besides, beating that High Dragon is just fun.

I wonder what the experience would be like if Kolgrim's and the Guardian's delivery were switched. What if Kolgrim had the Guardian's voice and spoke with an otherwordly echo of "second chances" with choir music behind him, and the Guardian had that creepy music in the background and an angry "YOU MUST OBEY ME BEFORE I LOSE MY PATIENCE!" tone that seemed to be always yelling? Someone should mod that.

Modifié par Obadiah, 29 septembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[Xilizhra]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Purged for security's sake.

This is starting to sound like a Princess Mary Sue Cous Cous fic.

I'm trying to avoid it, believe me.

[Siduri]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Purged for security's sake.

This is starting to sound like a Princess Mary Sue Cous Cous fic.

I love it. Rock on Xilizhra with your bad self.

Before I found these forums I had no idea how many different ways there are to go through this game. Even the ones I think are crazy delight me, just as a little illustration of how varied the human mind can be.

[Costin_Razvan]

I would do it every time if not for Wynne. But since Wynne either dies/leaves I do kill Kolgrim, though I do not agree with killing a person over a holy relic. I am certain many religious folks would disagree with me here, but it is my belief that God would rather have us not kill our fellow man over a relic and since I know the Maker is based on God, well go figure.

[Wulfram]

TJPags wrote...

Is there a way to make it into the ruined temple withOUT killing your way through the village?

I mean, I have no problem doing that - I hate cults - I'm just wondering . . .

If you go straight to meet Father Eirik, rather than going into the house with the altar, that cuts down deaths quite a lot.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

saruman85 wrote...



Wow. That's...a lot of backstory to create for one Warden You don't happen to write fanfic do you?

I'm terrible at actually writing anything down. However, I'm running a tabletop Dragon Age RPG campaign for a friend of mine, and this Warden appears in it.

She has a master plan going that involves turning the Grey Wardens into her own specialized religious order, focused on finding the last two Old Gods and breaking them free of their prisons. Afterwards, she hopes to repeat the Tevinter feat of invading the Black City and casting down the false Maker; she hopes that her new magisters will have purer hearts.

It's entirely possible that the story of the Tevinters entering the Black City is ficticious. Even Alistair doubts the truth of the story.

Xilizhra wrote...



Not an army of heretics; I want Ferelden's own army behind me. The cultists are just needed to facilitate the training of my revised Grey Wardens, as I intend to remake the entire Ferelden order in my own image. Getting rid of Orlais' Wardens would be nice, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable future... hmmm...

Realistically, Orlais is a very powerful nation. The fact that the Chantry resides there means that plenty of Maker-worshipping folks across Thedas will come to their call if they declare an Exalted March, like the Dales. As for establishing their own reign, I think commandering control of Ferelden from the Arls, Banns, and Teyrn would be difficult, if not next to impossible. It might be easier to establish a new nation in the Uncharted Territories below the Kocari Wilds.

Xilizhra wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...



Not an army of heretics; I want Ferelden's own army behind me. The cultists are just needed to facilitate the training of my revised Grey Wardens, as I intend to remake the entire Ferelden order in my own image. Getting rid of Orlais' Wardens would be nice, but I can't see it happening in the forseeable future... hmmm...

So whats to stop the Warden's from killing you while you try to do this?



Reaver is a useless spec anyway.

The Warden's are far more powerful than some sick cult living in the mountains.

Also how do you plan on marching a small army against the Darkspawn, when even Ferelden and Orzamar combined still only manage to take back a few Thaigs?



The Warden is only in charge of the Warden's in Ferelden if you try and do something like that the First Warden would counter you, or the Chantry.

Then clearly, my next goal is First Wardenhood.

The Anderfels is quite some distance away, and we know relatively little about the First Warden and the power structure of the Wardens there, besides their power meaning more than the rule of its King and over a thousand Wardens residing there. It's also a desolate wasteland because of the Blights. Becoming the leader of one of the Free Marches might be more realistic for the Hero of Ferelden, considering that Alistair admits there are Wardens there.

[Giggles_Manically]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I would do it every time if not for Wynne. But since Wynne either dies/leaves I do kill Kolgrim, though I do not agree with killing a person over a holy relic. I am certain many religious folks would disagree with me here, but it is my belief that God would rather have us not kill our fellow man over a relic and since I know the Maker is based on God, well go figure.

This.

To bad many people in the past seem to think that they can interpert exactly what God wants them to do.

[saruman85]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
To bad many people in the past seem to think that they can interpert exactly what God wants them to do.

I like how Ian McKellen puts it in The Da Vinci Code:

"As long as there has been one God there has been killing in His name."

But we're getting off-topic. Sorry!

[KnightofPhoenix]

saruman85 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
To bad many people in the past seem to think that they can interpert exactly what God wants them to do.

I like how Ian McKellen puts it in The Da Vinci Code:

"As long as there has been one God there has been killing in His name."

Ahistorical attempt to put blame on monotheistic religions. Politheism had people kill in the name of their gods like mostly any other religion.

As for killing people over a relic. Eh, you already slaughtered several dozen disciples.
But this whole quest bugs me and I find it annoying. Eamon is not worth all this trouble. 

[FutileSine]

@Xilizhra Interesting idea! I like it! Especially because my interpretation of Thedas theology is similar in some ways to what you've presented, different in others, but that is a discussion for another time...



*Anyways* just wondering, but have you thought of a reason why Kolgrim/the High dragon wants the Ashes destroyed? Complete spoiler for the FF I am writing (who really reads those things anyways?) but I am thinking that the dragon wants the Ashes destroyed because the lyrium in the temple (that apparently Oghren senses is there?) is tied to the ashes. Desecrate the ashes...and thats a whole lot of lyrium that can now be used for anything!

[FutileSine]

KnightofPhoenix wrote... 

As for killing people over a relic. Eh, you already slaughtered several dozen disciples.
But this whole quest bugs me and I find it annoying. Eamon is not worth all this trouble. 

Shameless plug time!!  My most recent chapter totally touched on this subject.  

Seriously, the Urn has been lost for centuries...would it really be a smart idea for the Wardens to give up their precious time *While a Blight is going on* to pursue a relic that I'm sure Kings and emperors had spent whole treasuries to find?  In order to rescue a guy who doesn't really need to be saved, especially when he has a brother who can easily step into the Arl's shoes?  Ugh.  

So basically, I totally agree.  The whole quest should NOT be necessary and is just an excuse to make the game longer.  

[KnightofPhoenix]

FutileSine wrote...
Shameless plug time!!  My most recent chapter totally touched on this subject.  

Seriously, the Urn has been lost for centuries...would it really be a smart idea for the Wardens to give up their precious time *While a Blight is going on* to pursue a relic that I'm sure Kings and emperors had spent whole treasuries to find?  In order to rescue a guy who doesn't really need to be saved, especially when he has a brother who can easily step into the Arl's shoes?  Ugh.  

So basically, I totally agree.  The whole quest should NOT be necessary and is just an excuse to make the game longer.  

Except no one, not even the Chantry itself and its zealous Templars, believe it exists in the first place and dimiss it as a myth. Which makes the whole quest even more ridiculous, especially when playing a non-Andrastrian who has 0 reason to believe in the myth.

So yea, it's a complete waste of time, all because the idiot Teagan doesn't want to replace his brother.

[saruman85]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Ahistorical attempt to put blame on monotheistic religions.

An attempt by whom? Dan Brown? But no you're absolutely right about polytheistic religions too. Heck people have killed for a lot less than gods.

But this whole quest bugs me and I find it annoying. Eamon is not worth all this trouble.

Hear hear. In the end Teagan could've done everything he did anyway, and with a lot less "ALISTAIR WILL BE KING DAMMIT!" and no effort on your part to win over female banns like Alfstanna

[FutileSine]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...



Except no one, not even the Chantry itself and its zealous Templars, believe it exists in the first place and dimiss it as a myth. .  

  I totally can't remember this being in game...what a pity!  Probably because I hate the quest so much I just click through everything way too fast.... Could you (or someone else) direct me to where they said this?  I tried to see if another forum post had it, but apparently my forum search skills aren't up to par....

[Addai]

FutileSine wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...



Except no one, not even the Chantry itself and its zealous Templars, believe it exists in the first place and dimiss it as a myth. .  

  I totally can't remember this being in game...what a pity!  Probably because I hate the quest so much I just click through everything way too fast.... Could you (or someone else) direct me to where they said this?  I tried to see if another forum post had it, but apparently my forum search skills aren't up to par....

For example Brother Genitivi says, if you return with the Ashes, "maybe the Chantry will stop saying my research is blasphemy now."  Something like that.