112 réponses à ce sujet

[yummysoap]

Sexism and over-the-top sexualisation are two different things. I'm not too upset about sexualisation, and I don't think ME2 was the one that brough it to the table (Benezia, anyone?)



Despite that, I would have been much more impressed if characters like Miranda were dressed in less ridiculous clothes, only so that when you take them off during the romance scene it doesn't feel like you're seeing something that was in plain sight throughout the entire game.

[Commander Kurt]

Zan Mura wrote...
You do know these forums are quite heavily moderated? Slapping a sign on your forehead saying "I'm a troll and wish to be punished" is not only a bad idea with regards to your community image, it receives the attention of the mods quickly enough. Some people are just too touchy, of course. But goading them just because you know you can is hardly the way to go either.

Hmm.. I am ready to edit my post, but I am not sure about how I am breaking the rules.

Sarcasm I am sure I have seen before, but maybe I was too harsh. Thank you so much for the heads-up!

[Onyx Jaguar]

I would suggest to make your post more over the top



for freedom

[Clover Rider]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would suggest to make your post more over the top

for freedom

And for money:bandit:.

[Rockworm503]

lol its not like Mass Effect was the first ones to do it.

They just do it better than most.

[Commander Kurt]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would suggest to make your post more over the top

for freedom

I suspect you may be what my mother used to call a bad influence..

[Zan Mura]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I would suggest to make your post more over the top

for freedom

I suspect you may be what my mother used to call a bad influence..

Haha. Nah, it's all good. Maybe I just underestimated the people here. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

I prefer the approach from ME1, where the characters all wore armor in combat. If Miranda wants to wear her gettup on the Normandy, that's fine, but really, put on some damn armor if people are going to be shooting at you.

[Naltair]

Matriarch Benezia.

[Lord_Caledore]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I prefer the approach from ME1, where the characters all wore armor in combat. If Miranda wants to wear her gettup on the Normandy, that's fine, but really, put on some damn armor if people are going to be shooting at you.

Likewise. Some of the getups in ME2 are just ridiculous. Miranda and Samara, I'm looking at you. It's hard to take Justicars seriously if they're wearing an outfit like Samara's.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Naltair wrote...

Matriarch Benezia.

Can I ask you to be more detailed / specific?   I don't want to respond to something you weren't trying to say. 

[Naltair]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Matriarch Benezia.

Can I ask you to be more detailed / specific?   I don't want to respond to something you weren't trying to say. 

Dat cleavage?

[Killjoy Cutter]

1) Benezia's dress was otherwise pretty "modest".



2) She wasn't expecting to be a direct combatant, was she? What with the company-sized compliment of Geth and the squad of Asari commandos, standing between her and any danger.

[Naltair]

The game has always had sex in it and sexy people, I don't consider this a huge deal.

[narthwastaken]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

1) Benezia's dress was otherwise pretty "modest".

2) She wasn't expecting to be a direct combatant, was she? What with the company-sized compliment of Geth and the squad of Asari commandos, standing between her and any danger.

Yeah however the first time we see benezia there's about 5 seconds focused on her boobs before we see her face.

I did wonder about the lack of armour by half the squad. Kinetic barriers are supposed to have come forward a long way but perhaps shepherd gets things done because he wears combat armour into battle rather. When his barriers fail he should take a lot less damage.

Anyway, I'm not sure agree entirely with the accusations about Samara's armour. It did seems completely at odds with the character she is and her appearance is part of the way they convey the character, however it did look it might actually absorb more than a fraction of the impact of a shot in a few places. 

As far as sexualisation goes, it is a bit rampant, it was there before though. I've seen posts stating Ashley's butt was implemented to make the elevator scenes more fun. 

I would feel more solid if my squad wore a bit more armour. I can imagine certain characters wouldn't want much of it, like thane. But I imagine he'd wear something more like a ninja getup than a long coat when on the job. I guess if I think about it that way then, the characters who seem most lacking in armour relative to their combat role and style are Miranda and Jacob. Grunt, Zaeed and Garrus wear armour. Thane need to move fast and be agile, jack has raw power and doesn't care, samara might want a bit more protection and less cleavage for combat but she has some armour, Mordin wears light armour at all times.

Fortunately as you get to know each character you learn there's more to them, they have issues, insecurities and vulnerabilities and they aren't just eye candy. Well nearly, I'm not sure about Jacob. Guess him being the one sane person on the ship is his *thing*

[Killjoy Cutter]

Naltair wrote...

The game has always had sex in it and sexy people, I don't consider this a huge deal.

It only becomes a big deal to me when it starts to strain credibility, and seems to take over the game. 

Compare Ashley and Liara with Miranda, Jack, and Samara. 

[Naltair]

They are totally different characters though. Miranda is well I just think she is playing to her strength she uses her beauty to keep people off balance. Jack is just an extremist and does not care about what others think, or at least she wants people to think that. Samara, and Asari by extension, probably don't have the same kinds of modesty that humanity has. She has her cleavage hanging out but she does not seem to really play to the sexy type, she just is.



She does not use her body unless you call attention to it.



The same could be said for Thane and Jacob, both are sexualized men.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Naltair wrote...

The game has always had sex in it and sexy people, I don't consider this a huge deal.

Game?  How about world!    

[Phaedon]

Zaxares wrote...

I don't believe ME2 is a sexist game. It has sexual overtones, certainly, but you'll find those everywhere in real life too. There is nothing wrong with seeing men or women as sexual beings; it's only when you ONLY see them as sexual beings that there's a problem.

This, Bioware isn't sexist people ! Sexism as a word is used too much these days... Yes, some ME2 characters were oversexualized, but not only female ! That's the point of the thread.

[HazelrahFiver]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
It only becomes a big deal to me when it starts to strain credibility, and seems to take over the game. 

Compare Ashley and Liara with Miranda, Jack, and Samara.

The arguments that can be made are:
That their lack of armor is acceptable due to their kinetic barriers.  It would make sense, in a way, that someone who has more of a natural shield would not wear actual, physical armor.  It becomes an advantage, perhaps a risky one, to abandon traditional armor in order to improve mobility and lessen strain on the body, therefore lessening the strain a biotic might have mentally.  I could imagine not being able to concentrate as well when blasting out a shockwave if I felt fifty pounts heavier than normal.
There's also the issue of personality and combat-style.  We've seen Samara and Jack at least perform quite acrobatically and wearing additional armor would only hinder that fighting style.  Jack is as grumpy and rebellious as a person can get.  I can picture her fighting like a rabid hamster if someone demanded or even suggested she put on armor.  She also seems like the type to wear revealing, self-demeaning outfits (I am taking this from personal experience.  I have friends on Facebook that have pictures with so little clothing that I would never need to see them naked, if I wanted to.)  Samara is wearing her traditional Justicar outfit, and tradition and rules seem to be everything to the Justicar.  While Miranda doesn't have any nifty excuses like the other two, her outfit could very well be laced with thin armor.  Present technology is already getting bulletproof armor down to a chainmail thin layer.

P.S. I do realize that all three of their outfits were still created by the human mind, and likely with some sexuality in mind.  None of them have to wear what they do because of reality, so a Justicar's outfit could have been much less revealing if the Bioware folks had wanted it to be.  Lol, oh well.

[achwas]

narthwastaken wrote...

.... Well nearly, I'm not sure about Jacob. Guess him being the one sane person on the ship is his *thing*

He is WHAT ? If sane = naive, you may be right. although personally I would call him witless, if not outright dumb.

Oh, and since I am fortunately living in Europe- where not every accidentally bared breast is the trigger for a tsunami of moral outrage from XYZ-minority" - I don't find Mass Effect 2 especially "oversexed". Besides feeling very sorry  for Miranda's poorly chosen outift.  And I never really took Samara along for anything, anyway ....and Jack... oh well, Jack is wrapped up pretty well in her outrage and fury, right ?

What disturbed me far more was Jack waltzing around in hard vaccuum (e.g. collector ship and base ) with her straps, naked skin and very little besides^^

Modifié par achwas, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[Heavensrun]

GodWood wrote...

brfritos wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I think it looks stupid and makes the game look immature and childish.
So yes it is a bad thing.

Well, they are about to do sex, what do you expect?

You misunderstand.
If its during a sex scene I couldn't care if the scene played out like a porno, my problem is the fact that characters are now dressed like DC comics heroes when they're on the battle field, which looks absolutely ridiculous and serves no purpose other then fanservice.

Not true.  It says something about each of their personalities.  Miranda dresses sexy.  On purpose.  This is a clue into her mindset.  people gripe about the heels, but I've seen cowboy boots that are about as tough to walk in than her boots would be, and nobody goes around saying cowboys are oversexualized.  ;p

Jack walks around basically naked, because she's all about mobility and offense, and relies on her biotics for protection.  Also, she -likes- offending people.  And she's probably proud of her tats.  They're a statement, and statements are meant to be shared.

And as I mentioned, there was plenty of form-fitting gear in the first game as well.  Some more than others, but almost -all- of the armor was fairly snug.

@ Heavensrun, I don't know what point you're trying to make, as I never called it sexist

And I never said anything about sexism in my reply to you.  All of the talk of sexism came after I said "as for the OP" (Original Poster)  and after that point, I was responding to the thread in general.

My point to -you- was that ME1 had plenty of "fanservice" as well, (although I see as much clevage walking around in real life as I do in any given Mass Effect game, so I might call it something else) and arguably -more- of such.  I think it's an error in reasoning to suggest that ME2 is particularly more sexualized than ME1 was, on the whole.

[Heavensrun]

HazelrahFiver wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
It only becomes a big deal to me when it starts to strain credibility, and seems to take over the game. 

Compare Ashley and Liara with Miranda, Jack, and Samara.

The arguments that can be made are:
That their lack of armor is acceptable due to their kinetic barriers.  It would make sense, in a way, that someone who has more of a natural shield would not wear actual, physical armor.  It becomes an advantage, perhaps a risky one, to abandon traditional armor in order to improve mobility and lessen strain on the body, therefore lessening the strain a biotic might have mentally.  I could imagine not being able to concentrate as well when blasting out a shockwave if I felt fifty pounts heavier than normal.
There's also the issue of personality and combat-style.  We've seen Samara and Jack at least perform quite acrobatically and wearing additional armor would only hinder that fighting style.  Jack is as grumpy and rebellious as a person can get.  I can picture her fighting like a rabid hamster if someone demanded or even suggested she put on armor.  She also seems like the type to wear revealing, self-demeaning outfits (I am taking this from personal experience.  I have friends on Facebook that have pictures with so little clothing that I would never need to see them naked, if I wanted to.)

I gotta interject here.  I agree with most of your comments about the companion's gear, but to suggest that Jack's clothing is "demeaning" or intended as such doesn't fit with what I've seen of the character.  I got the strong impression that she dresses to offend, and to project an air of "deal with it", not to somehow demean herself, and if you're trying to suggest that nudity is somehow inherently demeaning, then again, I could not disagree with that more strongly if I tried.

[Heavensrun]

achwas wrote...

narthwastaken wrote...

.... Well nearly, I'm not sure about Jacob. Guess him being the one sane person on the ship is his *thing*

He is WHAT ? If sane = naive, you may be right. although personally I would call him witless, if not outright dumb.

Oh, and since I am fortunately living in Europe- where not every accidentally bared breast is the trigger for a tsunami of moral outrage from XYZ-minority" - I don't find Mass Effect 2 especially "oversexed". Besides feeling very sorry  for Miranda's poorly chosen outift.  And I never really took Samara along for anything, anyway ....and Jack... oh well, Jack is wrapped up pretty well in her outrage and fury, right ?

What disturbed me far more was Jack waltzing around in hard vaccuum (e.g. collector ship and base ) with her straps, naked skin and very little besides^^

The collector ship and base both had atmosphere.  Not only did your crew members walk back to the Normandy's position on the outside of the base, but the collectors themselves use -wings- to fly around.  Wings are kinda useless without a medium with which to interact.  In hard vacuum, wings are about as useful as arms and legs.  Which is to say not at all.

And even if they were in hard vacuum at times, is it that hard to imagine that barrier technology can protect you from more than just projectiles?