354 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Oh, and I am definitely stopping now. I've made my point, and I'm not derailing my friend's thread any longer.



Ulrich, I think that we disagree regarding the status of LotSB as a canonical part of the ME series' narrative. It's best if we just stop...I don't want this to carry on. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that, okay? Please.

*sighs*

As I said in my last post, I am not saying that LotSB or more to the point Liara taking over as SB cannot be canon. I am merely pointing out that Shepard's involvement in it doesn't have to be. If you can't grasp that, then you really are as thick headed as you are continuously making yourself appear. It makes no logical sense to have it that Liara and Shep talk to each other in ME3 as if Shep did help her with the SB if Shep didn't. They could however put in a simple line where she gets to explain how she did get him.

[jlb524]

Creid-X wrote...

In a certain thread Christina Norman said that regardless of whether you buy LotSB and play it Liara will still be the SB in ME3, as not only all DLC is considered canon but also, LotSB in particular affects the ME universe as a whole pretty significantly.

Do you remember what thread? 

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think that jlb524 is on the right track when believing that the SB will be in ME3 and that Shep's involvement in that only leads to one (or more) dialogue line changes. The SB may be BW's response to get rid of tIM. It seems to me that most people are glad to get rid of him, and thus chances are that in ME3 Shep will be funded by the SB/Liara and/or the Alliance. I think that if the SB funds Shep then that will be the closest thing we can have to create an independent "Team Shepard" (as some fans are calling it). The SB has the huge resources required for that. And she has the power to retrieve info from and inject info to galactic powers. Let's hope we won't need a SR3, because I think (just a hunch) that the company who was able to create the earlier ones (SR2 for sure, SR1 not sure) is owned by tIM (Cord-Hislop Aerospace). Anderson's son (Jason - the aerospace engineer) is somehow involved in that company (wild guess which explains the SB's Anderson/Cerberus video). So, we might see tIM back if we need that company's services again.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:23 .

[jlb524]

They can't destroy the Normandy again. I think Shepard will just 'steal' the SR2 from Cerberus/TIM....I expect a stab in the back from them later on, in DLC or maybe the beginning of ME3.



I didn't know about the Cord-Hislop/TIM/Anderson connection...interesting.

[TMA LIVE]

Actually, I wonder if Liara will fund an SR3 for ME3. Hmm.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

They can't destroy the Normandy again. I think Shepard will just 'steal' the SR2 from Cerberus/TIM....I expect a stab in the back from them later on, in DLC or maybe the beginning of ME3.

I didn't know about the Cord-Hislop/TIM/Anderson connection...interesting.

Well, if Shepard goes to jail, maybe his ship gets scrapped or something.

[AngryFrozenWater]

TMA LIVE wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

They can't destroy the Normandy again. I think Shepard will just 'steal' the SR2 from Cerberus/TIM....I expect a stab in the back from them later on, in DLC or maybe the beginning of ME3.

I didn't know about the Cord-Hislop/TIM/Anderson connection...interesting.

Well, if Shepard goes to jail, maybe his ship gets scrapped or something.

I wouldn't mind if the SR2 gets scrapped. It's invested by tIM's bugs anyway. Mordin even tells you that he removed some of them from his lab and gave back "the more expensive ones" to Miranda.

I don't believe in the jail theory. Smells too much like the start of Oblivion.

I don't believe that we start off at level 1 in ME3 either. On the old forums we were told that ME1's stats and gear were incompatible with those of ME2 and that was the reason these could not be imported. It was suggested that ME3 wouldn't have that problem, though.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:04 .

[TMA LIVE]

One of my theories is that Mass Effect 3 will begin with Shepard going beyond charted space and investigating something based on data he got from the Collector's base (which is why Shepard is off the grid). This was a maybe a 2 year journey or less. Once Shepard arrives and finds whatever, his ship is attached, but they manage to escape. Once he gets back into charted space, his ship is beyond repair, and just floating in space. This will require a new ship, which Liara will fund.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I take it that the "off the grid" means that the Council didn't/doesn't know Shepard's whereabouts at some point in the game. But that has been solved now. Everyone (from Hackett to Shepard's mother) knows where to find Shepard. The Normandy's mail address seems to be very public.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:25 .

[TMA LIVE]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I take it that the "off the grid" means that the Council didn't/doesn't know Shepard's whereabouts at some point in the game. But that has been solved now. Everyone (from Hackett to Shepard's mother) knows where to find Shepard. The Normandy's mail address seems to be very public.

No, it's from the third book. Anderson claims he's off the grid after defeating the Collectors.

[AngryFrozenWater]

TMA LIVE wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I take it that the "off the grid" means that the Council didn't/doesn't know Shepard's whereabouts at some point in the game. But that has been solved now. Everyone (from Hackett to Shepard's mother) knows where to find Shepard. The Normandy's mail address seems to be very public.

No, it's from the third book. Anderson claims he's off the grid after defeating the Collectors.

Ah. I am not a fan of BW's merchandise. If it is not in my game then it does not exist until introduced in the next game.

[Mox Ruuga]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ah. I am not a fan of BW's merchandise. If it is not in my game then it does not exist until introduced in the next game.

Yeah, I've read the first book, and it was... ok. Worst element was the forced romance between the lead characters, Karpyshyn should have left that plot tumor out as it served no purpose and went nowhere. I was surprised how "humanely" the Batarians were depicted tho... Slavery wasn't an integral part of their culture at that early stage, they certainly weren't the Al-Qaeda in space of ME1 and ME2...

The thing is, the novels do introduce plot elements in the books that are in the next game... Saren, Anderson, and the Spectres (and hints about Sovereign) in the first one, the Collectors, Omega, Cerberus and TIM in the second one. I wonder what the important element from the third one will turn out to be... IIRC it takes place something like a year after the events of ME2, which prolly gives some indication as to the time leap between ME2 and ME3...

[AngryFrozenWater]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ah. I am not a fan of BW's merchandise. If it is not in my game then it does not exist until introduced in the next game.

Yeah, I've read the first book, and it was... ok. Worst element was the forced romance between the lead characters, Karpyshyn should have left that plot tumor out as it served no purpose and went nowhere. I was surprised how "humanely" the Batarians were depicted tho... Slavery wasn't an integral part of their culture at that early stage, they certainly weren't the Al-Qaeda in space of ME1 and ME2...

The thing is, the novels do introduce plot elements in the books that are in the next game... Saren, Anderson, and the Spectres (and hints about Sovereign) in the first one, the Collectors, Omega, Cerberus and TIM in the second one. I wonder what the important element from the third one will turn out to be... IIRC it takes place something like a year after the events of ME2, which prolly gives some indication as to the time leap between ME2 and ME3...

I feel it is a bad thing if we have to rely on that. I also don't see many people here who have read all the stuff. As a gamer you should not have to. That said, I understand that some elements will be used.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
*sighs*

As I said in my last post, I am not saying that LotSB or more to the point Liara taking over as SB cannot be canon. I am merely pointing out that Shepard's involvement in it doesn't have to be. If you can't grasp that, then you really are as thick headed as you are continuously making yourself appear. It makes no logical sense to have it that Liara and Shep talk to each other in ME3 as if Shep did help her with the SB if Shep didn't. They could however put in a simple line where she gets to explain how she did get him.

You really do not understand what I am saying, do you? You're the one that is thick, my friend. Besides, I can't take you seriously with that monstrosity of an avatar that you possess. He looks like a bulldog licking ****** off a nettle.

I am merely saying that I think that Shepard's involvement in the events of LotSB will be canon, and that if the player did not complete the content themselves, Liara will provide a brief recap of the events that transpired. We already know that Shepard has "dropped off the grid" during the events of Retribution...BioWare are not adverse to having Shepard act without the player's involvement. You seem to be obsessed with discrediting this, for some bizarre reason.

LET, are you trying to cause trouble or get banned, because insulting people because they don't agree with you is one way for that to happen. Just a friendly warning.

Look, just accept that people don't agree with you. Especially since some countries can't download this DLC, and some people can't even download it because they're not setup for it. They don't know if they're going to get an Ultimate Edition. Nor would have want to have some actions done for them because they didn't download it. This is why most likely Liara can become the Shadow Broker without Shepard's help, or why we "want" that to happen.

[Ulathar]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
*sighs*

As I said in my last post, I am not saying that LotSB or more to the point Liara taking over as SB cannot be canon. I am merely pointing out that Shepard's involvement in it doesn't have to be. If you can't grasp that, then you really are as thick headed as you are continuously making yourself appear. It makes no logical sense to have it that Liara and Shep talk to each other in ME3 as if Shep did help her with the SB if Shep didn't. They could however put in a simple line where she gets to explain how she did get him.

You really do not understand what I am saying, do you? You're the one that is thick, my friend. Besides, I can't take you seriously with that monstrosity of an avatar that you possess. He looks like a bulldog licking ****** off a nettle.

I am merely saying that I think that Shepard's involvement in the events of LotSB will be canon, and that if the player did not complete the content themselves, Liara will provide a brief recap of the events that transpired. We already know that Shepard has "dropped off the grid" during the events of Retribution...BioWare are not adverse to having Shepard act without the player's involvement. You seem to be obsessed with discrediting this, for some bizarre reason.

Sorry, but I have to agree with Ulrich on this one. He's not saying that LotSB and Liara becoming SB won't be canonised...that has been confirmed by the devs. That means, players who didn't buy LotSB will just get the recap of the events like you suggests. However, if a player has bought LotSB and the mission is availlable, yet he chooses NOT to do the mission. Well, it's pretty much a given that Liara will still become SB, but Shepard didn't help her in that pt. That has nothing to do with canon or default Shepard. In an imported pt (with LotSB installed) the canon of that doesn't matter.

Modifié par Systemlord Baal, 06 octobre 2010 - 12:08 .

[morrie23]

Nobody knows how LotSB will be intergrated into ME3 if it wasn't played through on an import, I think we all agree that it will probably play a major role regardless if you played or not. There's nothing stopping BW saying that Shep did help Liara regardless, equally there's nothing stopping them saying Liara did it on her own. I'd argue that there are story and character points that may preclude the latter but tbh I not sure it matters as long as for players who did play LotSB it is properly intergrated into the story.

[Ulathar]

How "I don't agree with you" equals "besieged upon" escapes me and of course there are "givens", otherwise there could be no canon/default.



Thing is, both routes are possible and why should I as a player lose the opportunity to have a say in this? If I specifically choose not to help Liara with this and don't do the mission, why should it then simply be assumed by the game that I did it later anyways?

[bjdbwea]

Systemlord Baal wrote...

If I specifically choose not to help Liara with this and don't do the mission, why should it then simply be assumed by the game that I did it later anyways?

Because that's the most efficient way. Unfortunately, the resources when developing the game are limited. Therefore, it's necessary to assume some things. One of them will almost certainly be that Liara is the new SB. You are right though, it would be no problem to assume that Liara did it on her own if the player did not for whatever reason complete LotSB. It would only require a few sentences in ME 3 to explain the events.

As I said before, the more interesting question is whether it will still be possible to continue the romance if someone didn't complete LotSB. There would

• 1. either need to be an alternative reconciliation scene during ME 3,
• 2. or the game would indeed need to assume that LotSB happened anyway,
• 3. or players who did not complete LotSB would have to be locked out from the continuation of the romance.

Number 1 would of course be the best solution, but if that doesn't happen, surely number 2 is preferable to number 3. Though if someone has LotSB installed and still decides not to help Liara, then he obviously doesn't care about the romance anyway, so I wouldn't mind if he has to accept number 3.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:10 .

[Ulathar]

You are correct ressources are limited and some things have to be assumed. As stated in my first post on this matter I do believe Liara becoming the SB to be one of them. Just wanted to point that out

On the romance question. I agree that option 1 would be the best but it should be made quite difficult to accomplish in ME3, imo.

Modifié par Systemlord Baal, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:27 .

[bjdbwea]

Systemlord Baal wrote...

On the romance question. I agree that option 1 would be the best but I wonder it should be made quite difficult to accomplish in ME3, imo.

I don't think that it should. I also don't think that they should waste much additional resources for any more confrontation scenes or anything like that. The most important thing is to concentrate on the character, the character development, interaction and the romance. It would be great if all the other stuff could be done as well, but ME 2 clearly showed that, indeed, the resources are unfortunately limited. But then they have to be distributed properly. That wasn't very well done in the main game, but much better in LotSB.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 06 octobre 2010 - 01:31 .

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

As I said before, the more interesting question is whether it will still be possible to continue the romance if someone didn't complete LotSB. There would

• 1. either need to be an alternative reconciliation scene during ME 3,
• 2. or the game would indeed need to assume that LotSB happened anyway,
• 3. or players who did not complete LotSB would have to be locked out from the continuation of the romance.

Number 1 would of course be the best solution, but if that doesn't happen, surely number 2 is preferable to number 3. Though if someone has LotSB installed and still decides not to help Liara, then he obviously doesn't care about the romance anyway, so I wouldn't mind if he has to accept number 3.

Exactly.  I think the important thing is that Liara will be the Shadow Broker regardless of a person playing LotSB.  Shepard helping her or not is a minor insignificant detail and will probably just affect one conversation minimally.

I think people that skipped out on LotSB might get a pretty weak, 'Hey, do you still like me or not?' dialog with Liara that stands in place of all the romance development that occured in LotSB.  Here, you can end the romance or continue it, similar to what happened in the DLC.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

As I said before, the more interesting question is whether it will still be possible to continue the romance if someone didn't complete LotSB. There would

• 1. either need to be an alternative reconciliation scene during ME 3,
• 2. or the game would indeed need to assume that LotSB happened anyway,
• 3. or players who did not complete LotSB would have to be locked out from the continuation of the romance.

Number 1 would of course be the best solution, but if that doesn't happen, surely number 2 is preferable to number 3. Though if someone has LotSB installed and still decides not to help Liara, then he obviously doesn't care about the romance anyway, so I wouldn't mind if he has to accept number 3.

Exactly.  I think the important thing is that Liara will be the Shadow Broker regardless of a person playing LotSB.  Shepard helping her or not is a minor insignificant detail and will probably just affect one conversation minimally.

I think people that skipped out on LotSB might get a pretty weak, 'Hey, do you still like me or not?' dialog with Liara that stands in place of all the romance development that occured in LotSB.  Here, you can end the romance or continue it, similar to what happened in the DLC.

Well, that's why a lot of Gaming Websites claimed Bioware said this will affect (or bridge, change, whatever) Mass Effect 3 in some way (unless they just assumed what was being said, and mistaken the meaning). Thus, doing the DLC might affects how your relationship with Liara will continue, or Shepard's involvement. Example, is the relationship still up in the air, or are they kissing and thinking about marriage?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 octobre 2010 - 06:12 .