354 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

I think they meant that it would affect the story...I'm sure it may affect the romance, but in reality, that's just a minor part of the whole thing. It might only be the difference in one little romance line for a Shep that played LotSB, and one who didn't.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I think they meant that it would affect the story...I'm sure it may affect the romance, but in reality, that's just a minor part of the whole thing. It might only be the difference in one little romance line for a Shep that played LotSB, and one who didn't.

Yeah, kind of like how they added an extra bit in Shadow Broker if you never got the "Couldn't let you go" bit, or started early.

[jlb524]

I do now have a lingering feeling that Liara won't remain as the Shadow Broker throughout the entirety of ME3. Something will happen. Don't know what. She will remain in the role only as long as needed, I think.

[morrie23]

Me too j, I think the data held by the SB network would be a very tempting target for the Reapers. They could use it much like the data they would of obtained from the Citadel if Sovereign had succeded.

Modifié par morrie23, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:05 .

[jlb524]

I just hope Liara doesn't become indoctrinated at some point and become the 'enemy'...ugh. I hated that when they did it with Bastila in KotOR.

[AmyBA]

I have had trouble keeping up with the last few pages, so I will just go back to the original topic and state what I think about Liaras importance to ME3.

I think so far it is mostly accepted that ME3 will be about building an army, making allies who command armies to fight the reapers, etc.

I don't think Liara will return as a squad mate, but she will return as an ally with the ability to put together a very strong army. This is one of the first things she exclaims after becoming the Shadow Broker, that she now has the power to start and end wars.

I think we will see the Alliance returning support and adding their forces as allies, mainly because we know several of their most influential leaders like Anderson and Hackett have a strong support and respect for Shepard, and I think in the end will sway the rest of the alliance to back Shepard up when things start to get heavy. I see Wrex/Wreav joining us with the united Krogan tribes as allies, Possibly Quarians, especially if Tali is allowed to stay in the fleet, joining in as allies, We also have the Geth and Rachni,

And now, Liara is the Shadow Broker. I can see her building an army or influencing others to do so and join as allies to fight the reapers.

As for the information carrying over wether or not someone has done the DLC, I dont doubt that it will.

BDtS did indeed carry over. My first ME1 playthrough, I did not play it or have it installed, and the results are mentioned in ME2. My next playthrough imported from ME1 had it completed, and of course those results were reported. While Shepards actions and involvment is not specifically mentioned, the results of those actions are.

For people who did not play the DLC,  I think we will still see the results in ME3, but they will introduced to the player in a different way. As some have said, maybe it will turn out someone else helped Liara invade the base, a nameless merc or something of that sort.

Modifié par AmyBA, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

morrie23 wrote...

Me too j, I think the data held by the SB network would be a very tempting target for the Reapers. They could use it much like the data they would of obtained from the Citadel if Sovereign had succeded.

Well, if you recall, one of the things that Vigil tells Shepard on Ilos is that the first thing the Reapers did was destroy their communications, which meant when one location was under attack they wasn't able to warn others and thus make it a lot easier for the Reapers to deal with the protheans. So yeah pretty much anything network related is most likely going to be their first target again.

[jlb524]

AmyBA wrote...

I don't think Liara will return as a squad mate, but she will return as an ally with the ability to put together a very strong army. This is one of the first things she exclaims after becoming the Shadow Broker, that she now has the power to start and end wars.

Yeah, the Shadow Broker also has their own personal private army (as Tela mentions to Shepard), though, I'm not sure how many were wiped out in the DLC.  I can't imagine Shepard took on all of them, just a small fraction.  I'm not sure what other military resources the SB has directily at her disposal.  However, as mentioned, the SB has contacts within turian/asari/salarian governments, and can hopefully use this resource to motivate those people to war.

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

I do now have a lingering feeling that Liara won't remain as the Shadow Broker throughout the entirety of ME3. Something will happen. Don't know what. She will remain in the role only as long as needed, I think.

Honestly that's a great way to kick off ME3 and get Liara into the squad.  The Reapers show up and begin to wipe out communications across worlds.  The SB is a prime target, of course, and they know about the SB because they've already had dealings with the SB.  Liara barely escapes with her life and flees...and we all know where she flees. 
 

[jlb524]

Yeled wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I do now have a lingering feeling that Liara won't remain as the Shadow Broker throughout the entirety of ME3. Something will happen. Don't know what. She will remain in the role only as long as needed, I think.

Honestly that's a great way to kick off ME3 and get Liara into the squad.  The Reapers show up and begin to wipe out communications across worlds.  The SB is a prime target, of course, and they know about the SB because they've already had dealings with the SB.  Liara barely escapes with her life and flees...and we all know where she flees. 
 

Indeed.  I would hope that, in the interim between LotSB and this hypothetical destruction of the SB base,  Liara would also discover some useful information that she can bring Shepard.

[Zulu_DFA]

Huh! So, despite what the Cerberus Command wrote in the cover letter that came with the intel on the Yahg Broker, Liara is enthusiastic enough to accept their help to rescue Feron...

WHAT IF

the Final ME3 Showdown (with the Reapers burning up in the background) will be: Shepard, TIM and Shadow Broker (aka Liara).

Shepard-Paragon: Liara turns out to be "corrupted" by TIM & power. Shepard has to choose: kill them both and live (with nightmares about poor Liara), or kill only TIM and die (possibly by Liara's hand but in so doing free her from the "evil spell").

Shepard-Renegade: TIM believes Shepard is ready to become his apprentice (in the Sith sense) and it's time to discard Liara, orders Shepard to kill Liara. Shepard has to choose: kill Liara and live (becoming a Darth Vader of sorts), or defy TIM and die fighting (& killing) him (becoming a redeemed Darth Vader).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 octobre 2010 - 01:45 .

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Alright, how about this. If she has kids, do you think she'll continue being the Shadow Broker, considering
that involves leaving the base to raise your kids in a pleasant environment?

No...I don't think she'd want to put them in danger for one thing.   Someone might do something to one of
them if her identity as the SB was ever comprimised.    The environment is another reason why she wouldn't want to.

I think inevitably, she will give up the position, regardless of having children or not.

Hmm... Well, I'm not quite sure she'll give it up. More like share the business with Feron I guess. Maybe they'll switch places once a month. I don't know. I'm still wondering if they'd really have kids since Grayson thought otherwise. I know the codec says something different, and Shepard seems hopeful. 

[Unit-Alpha]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Huh! So, despite what the Cerberus Command wrote in the cover letter that came with the intel on the Yahg Broker, Liara is enthusiastic enough to accept their help to rescue Feron...

WHAT IF

the Final ME3 Showdown (with the Reapers burning up in the background) will be: Shepard, TIM and Shadow Broker (aka Liara).

Shepard-Paragon: Liara turns out to be "corrupted" by TIM & power. Shepard has to choose: kill them both and live (with nightmares about poor Liara), or kill only TIM and die (possibly by Liara's hand but in so doing free her from the "evil spell").

Shepard-Renegade: TIM believes Shepard is ready to become his apprentice (in the Sith sense) and it's time to discard Liara, orders Shepard to kill Liara. Shepard has to choose: kill Liara and live (becoming a Darth Vader of sorts), or defy TIM and die fighting (& killing) him (becoming a redeemed Darth Vader).

So for renegade Shepard, both Liara and Shepard survive? Yeah, that's not going to happen if the Paragon version doesn't get the same chance.

[Unit-Alpha]

jlb524 wrote...

AmyBA wrote...

I don't think Liara will return as a squad mate, but she will return as an ally with the ability to put together a very strong army. This is one of the first things she exclaims after becoming the Shadow Broker, that she now has the power to start and end wars.

Yeah, the Shadow Broker also has their own personal private army (as Tela mentions to Shepard), though, I'm not sure how many were wiped out in the DLC.  I can't imagine Shepard took on all of them, just a small fraction.  I'm not sure what other military resources the SB has directily at her disposal.  However, as mentioned, the SB has contacts within turian/asari/salarian governments, and can hopefully use this resource to motivate those people to war.

I expect that the SB has independent cells operating in many different places. Therefore, we might have only taken out a small fraction (maybe less than 1/50) of his entire operating force.

[Zulu_DFA]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Huh! So, despite what the Cerberus Command wrote in the cover letter that came with the intel on the Yahg Broker, Liara is enthusiastic enough to accept their help to rescue Feron...

WHAT IF

the Final ME3 Showdown (with the Reapers burning up in the background) will be: Shepard, TIM and Shadow Broker (aka Liara).

Shepard-Paragon: Liara turns out to be "corrupted" by TIM & power. Shepard has to choose: kill them both and live (with nightmares about poor Liara), or kill only TIM and die (possibly by Liara's hand but in so doing free her from the "evil spell").

Shepard-Renegade: TIM believes Shepard is ready to become his apprentice (in the Sith sense) and it's time to discard Liara, orders Shepard to kill Liara. Shepard has to choose: kill Liara and live (becoming a Darth Vader of sorts), or defy TIM and die fighting (& killing) him (becoming a redeemed Darth Vader).

So for renegade Shepard, both Liara and Shepard survive? Yeah, that's not going to happen if the Paragon version doesn't get the same chance.

No, the renegade dies too, by TIM's hand.

Basically, no "happily ever after" for Shepard & Liara.

The third choice for both paragon and renegade situations could possibly be "walk away", in which case for paragon Liara remains allied with TIM, and for renegade TIM takes Liara down himself.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 09 octobre 2010 - 05:20 .

[Unit-Alpha]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Huh! So, despite what the Cerberus Command wrote in the cover letter that came with the intel on the Yahg Broker, Liara is enthusiastic enough to accept their help to rescue Feron...

WHAT IF

the Final ME3 Showdown (with the Reapers burning up in the background) will be: Shepard, TIM and Shadow Broker (aka Liara).

Shepard-Paragon: Liara turns out to be "corrupted" by TIM & power. Shepard has to choose: kill them both and live (with nightmares about poor Liara), or kill only TIM and die (possibly by Liara's hand but in so doing free her from the "evil spell").

Shepard-Renegade: TIM believes Shepard is ready to become his apprentice (in the Sith sense) and it's time to discard Liara, orders Shepard to kill Liara. Shepard has to choose: kill Liara and live (becoming a Darth Vader of sorts), or defy TIM and die fighting (& killing) him (becoming a redeemed Darth Vader).

So for renegade Shepard, both Liara and Shepard survive? Yeah, that's not going to happen if the Paragon version doesn't get the same chance.

No, the renegade dies too, by TIM's hand.

Basically, no "happily ever after" for Shepard & Liara.

Ok, that makes more sense. Still, it seems unlikely that Liara would be singled out, even if she is the Shadow Broker.

Personally, I'm in the school of thought that states that Liara's title will have little impact as to her role in ME3. Look at Samara or most of the other ME2 characters; once they join your squad, the importance of any previous titles seems to be drastically reduced.

More than likely, LotSB is setting up the whole beginning of ME2, with Liara and perhaps a sacrifical lamb squadmate saving you at the beginning.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 09 octobre 2010 - 05:23 .

[jlb524]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Personally, I'm in the school of thought that states that Liara's title will have little impact as to her role in ME3. Look at Samara or most of the other ME2 characters; once they join your squad, the importance of any previous titles seems to be drastically reduced.

More than likely, LotSB is setting up the whole beginning of ME2, with Liara and perhaps a sacrifical lamb squadmate saving you at the beginning.

You might be right, but I think Liara's past working as the Shadow Broker (I'm assuming a significant time will pass between ME2 and ME3 where Liara will be the SB throughout) is what will be important....what she does before joining up with Shepard again in ME3 (assuming she does).  I'm still thinking she will find something big in the data; something vital to defeating the Reapers.  Once on the ship as a squad mate, you might be right that her Shadow Brokering will be mostly forgotten. 

[Unit-Alpha]

jlb524 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Personally, I'm in the school of thought that states that Liara's title will have little impact as to her role in ME3. Look at Samara or most of the other ME2 characters; once they join your squad, the importance of any previous titles seems to be drastically reduced.

More than likely, LotSB is setting up the whole beginning of ME2, with Liara and perhaps a sacrifical lamb squadmate saving you at the beginning.

You might be right, but I think Liara's past working as the Shadow Broker (I'm assuming a significant time will pass between ME2 and ME3 where Liara will be the SB throughout) is what will be important....what she does before joining up with Shepard again in ME3 (assuming she does).  I'm still thinking she will find something big in the data; something vital to defeating the Reapers.  Once on the ship as a squad mate, you might be right that her Shadow Brokering will be mostly forgotten. 

Yeah, that's pretty much my assumption as of right now.

[Yeled]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Personally, I'm in the school of thought that states that Liara's title will have little impact as to her role in ME3. Look at Samara or most of the other ME2 characters; once they join your squad, the importance of any previous titles seems to be drastically reduced.

More than likely, LotSB is setting up the whole beginning of ME2, with Liara and perhaps a sacrifical lamb squadmate saving you at the beginning.

You might be right, but I think Liara's past working as the Shadow Broker (I'm assuming a significant time will pass between ME2 and ME3 where Liara will be the SB throughout) is what will be important....what she does before joining up with Shepard again in ME3 (assuming she does).  I'm still thinking she will find something big in the data; something vital to defeating the Reapers.  Once on the ship as a squad mate, you might be right that her Shadow Brokering will be mostly forgotten. 

Yeah, that's pretty much my assumption as of right now.

I agree as well. 

That said, trying to guess what BioWare will do with Liara or any other character based on their present situation in ME2 is an excersize in futility.  BioWare will make decisions based on what they want to do in ME3, and they will create whatever in-story justificaion they want to make it work.

Not that we shouldn't try just for the sake of trying.  Its a fun excersize even if its a futile one.  I'm just saying that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of BioWare doing whatever the hell Bioware wants to do, backstory be damned.

What I hope BioWare will do, however, is use the backstory in ME3 a lot more than they did in ME2.  I was emotionally less engaged in ME2 because it felt so seperate from ME1.  The important things that were developed in ME1 were cut off in ME2, and I don't want to see that happen again.

Anyway, continue with your speculation.  I don't mean to hijack the thread.

[jlb524]

Yeled wrote...

What I hope BioWare will do, however, is use the backstory in ME3 a lot more than they did in ME2.  I was emotionally less engaged in ME2 because it felt so seperate from ME1.  The important things that were developed in ME1 were cut off in ME2, and I don't want to see that happen again.

I do agree with this.  They shouldn't just drop the Shadow Broker thing, for example.   Hell, they need to bring back the ME1 stuff as well.  Many people have mentioned the Protheans and Liara's connection to them.   It would be great if that link could come back into being important again in ME3.

[pf17456]

Apparently Reapers were for some reason unable to turn the Protheans into a Reaper and as an alternative rewrote Prothean genetic code to create Collectors. Why ? Did the Protheans in some measure of defense find some way of preventing themselves from being turned into a Reaper ? Did they somehow make themselves immune to indoctrination ?

Why were the Collectors studying thier own genetic code and what was their interest in genetic abnormalities that had them pay huge sums of credits for abnormal subjects ? Did they in fact retain some genetic memory and were they attempting to re-engineer their genetic code in order to return to their Prothean form ?

Did the Protheans discover that the Keepers were repurposed by the Reapers for the same reason and were the Keepers the Race who developed the Mass accelerator weapon that permanently disabled the Reaper Shepard found the IFF on ?

Will Liara and Shepard return to Illos, Ferros and elsewhere to discover what the Protheans had done to defend themselves and use that to develop a more successful means of defense both in weaponry and resistance ?

[jlb524]

pf17456 wrote...

Apparently Reapers were for some reason unable to turn the Protheans into a Reaper and as an alternative rewrote Prothean genetic code to create Collectors. Why ? Did the Protheans in some measure of defense find some way of preventing themselves from being turned into a Reaper ? Did they somehow make themselves immune to indoctrination ?

They weren't immune...I think Vigil mentions that Protheans were indoctrinated by the Reapers.  I'm not sure why the Reapers couldn't construct a Prothean Reaper.  Where is it mentioned again that they tried and failed?

pf17456 wrote...

Why were the Collectors studying thier own genetic code and what was their interest in genetic abnormalities that had them pay huge sums of credits for abnormal subjects ? Did they in fact retain some genetic memory and were they attempting to re-engineer their genetic code in order to return to their Prothean form ?
Did the Protheans discover that the Keepers were repurposed by the Reapers for the same reason and were the Keepers the Race who developed the Mass accelerator weapon that permanently disabled the Reaper Shepard found the IFF on ?

Not sure why they were studying other Protheans...weren't they just comparing their material to humans?  I think the Collectors are too far gone to have the desire to return to Prothean form...they may have just been using other Collectors as possibly a control group for their study of humans.

pf17456 wrote...
Will Liara and Shepard return to Illos, Ferros and elsewhere to discover what the Protheans had done to defend themselves and use that to develop a more successful means of defense both in weaponry and resistance ?

Maybe...or perhaps a world like Ilos, that has an abundance of Prothean research data.  I think they may have gotten every thing out of Ilos, but, there may be other worlds out their that the Protheans had set up secret research bases on before being wiped out.

[chris025657]

jlb524 wrote...

They weren't immune...I think Vigil mentions that Protheans were indoctrinated by the Reapers.  I'm not sure why the Reapers couldn't construct a Prothean Reaper.  Where is it mentioned again that they tried and failed?

EDI speculates this when you see the human Reaper. 

As for potential Prothean data on the Reapers, I don't  imagine that would be something randomly brought up in LotSB if it was a story bridging DLC. The Prothean extinction by the Reapers apparently took awhile so they could easily have some useful data on the Reapers such as their tactics for example. 

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

Apparently Reapers were for some reason unable to turn the Protheans into a Reaper and as an alternative rewrote Prothean genetic code to create Collectors. Why ? Did the Protheans in some measure of defense find some way of preventing themselves from being turned into a Reaper ? Did they somehow make themselves immune to indoctrination ?

They weren't immune...I think Vigil mentions that Protheans were indoctrinated by the Reapers.  I'm not sure why the Reapers couldn't construct a Prothean Reaper.  Where is it mentioned again that they tried and failed?

The Reapers can't build more of themselves with each cycle. Or there will be a point when there are too many of them. The Galaxy won't be able to "sustain" them. It's simple ecology. Over-population crisis. Which will result in struggle and war, between the Reapers. Which will result in Reapers' evolution. Which will make no sense, seeing how the xeno-archaeological data on the extictions of spacefaring organic species seem to corroborate Sovereign's claim that they "impose order over chaos".
 
I short, the Reapers must have some "birth control" in place, so that by far not any race may be selected for "reaperifying".

The Humans must be really very special in Harbinger's view. Exceptional. Already "reaperish" enough to earn the "honor" of joining them in their perfection... Or they were only building the Human-Reaper to replace the loss of Sovereign.

Protheans were most probably turned into the Collectors until the next cycle, when they could be replaced by other repurposed servants. Harbinger must be referring to the process of selection of such a replacement, when it makes comments on Shepard's companions.

[Unit-Alpha]

I'm more inclined to believe that she will return as a squadmate only due to the fact that I'm pretty sure the SB base is going to be a major target of the Reapers. However, while I would prefer her being a squaddie, I would be incredibly happy either way. That is, as long as they don't Bastilize her.