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Liara, the Shadow Broker, and ME3


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#51
pf17456

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

If you had indeed romanced Liara, I'm sure they can add in some chances for you to discuss it with her if they force you to go to the SB base at certain periods throughout the game (to retrieve info or whatever) if she isn't a squad mate.

Even non-romanced, these opportunities can allow you to talk to her more and see how things are going. It's not really different from her being on the Normandy, accept you just have to fly to Hagalaz to talk with her.


This is what I believe will be the case. Shepard and the Normandy will frequently visit the Shadow Broker Base in ME3, as it will almost become our secondary base of operations. Whilst collecting resources or intelligence, Shepard will be able to engage in dialogue and interact with Liara, similar to any squadmate whilst on board the Normandy. Liara's dialogue and her romance will also develop and progress alongside the main story, and further conversations will unlock as story/plot worlds are completed, similar to squadmate dialogue progression in ME1.

I believe that the implementation of a system like this is extremely likely, and it will also allow the player to progress and develop the romance/friendship with Liara just as extensively as was possible in ME1.



I agree but I still want to take her to Eternity on Illium on her birthday for drinks with her father

#52
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pf17456 wrote...
I agree but I still want to take her to Eternity on Illium on her birthday for drinks with her father


But of course. That's one thing that I think is certanly on the cards in ME3. A reunion between Liara and Matriarch Aethyta! :wizard:

#53
jlb524

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pf17456 wrote...

 If her base gets destroyed or she gets in over her head then her autonomy does as well and Shepard will have once again saved her leaving her in a position of being the 'cowering' Asari from ME1 that she wants to leave behind. I think for Liara at this point, becoming a squadmate would not come without a price. I kind of like her where she is in the position she has, 'her dream job' and that's not to say that Feron couldn't babysit the base while Liara joined Shepard for a time. The conclusion of the trilogy I don't think matters so much since they could both quit their jobs and do something else but I'd hate to see Liara loose what she's gained as a character during the game just to be a squadmate.


I agree...in LotSB, Liara even made sure to bring up the fact that Shepard saved her from the Krogan in ME1...even she's tired of it.  :P

#54
jlb524

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

pf17456 wrote...
I agree but I still want to take her to Eternity on Illium on her birthday for drinks with her father


But of course. That's one thing that I think is certanly on the cards in ME3. A reunion between Liara and Matriarch Aethyta! :wizard:


Oh, that's another thing...I wonder how they will handle that?  Does Liara even know?  She had to watch that surveilance vid of Aethyta looking at her pic...

#55
adneate

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pf17456 wrote...

It seems everyone wants to see Liara back as a squadmate and although I'd love to be able to select her in my squad for every mission (and I would) I have to consider her current position and what it means to her as an autonomous individual on equal footing with Shepard capable of giving and taking as a partner rather than someone in a position of taking orders as a squadmate. I don't know of a way to reconcile this. If her base gets destroyed or she gets in over her head then her autonomy does as well and Shepard will have once again saved her leaving her in a position of being the 'cowering' Asari from ME1 that she wants to leave behind. I think for Liara at this point, becoming a squadmate would not come without a price. I kind of like her where she is in the position she has, 'her dream job' and that's not to say that Feron couldn't babysit the base while Liara joined Shepard for a time. The conclusion of the trilogy I don't think matters so much since they could both quit their jobs and do something else but I'd hate to see Liara loose what she's gained as a character during the game just to be a squadmate.


I think if the base has to be destroyed it should be her and Shepard who make that decision, that Shepard and Liara are standing the base looking over all the information pouring in trying to plan an intergalactic counter-attack. Then she realizes the Reapers are heading straight for the base,with the fleet still scattered around the galaxy with no hope of defending the base. That's when blowing the base and the network to bits wouldn't hurt her character because it's the sensible choice to make and her and Shepard are making it together in advance of the attack. In fact she'd probably be the first to bring it up, she knows best the wealth of knowledge and secrets the base represents and that it's fall to the Reapers would be disasterous. It's just a matter of avoiding the overly dramatic scenario of Shepard riding to Liara's rescue just before she blows the base and herself to pieces trying to prevent it's capture.

#56
jlb524

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That's a good idea, adneate.



It may even be a good idea for Shepard and Liara to slowly start moving parts of the base onto the Normandy in anticipation of something like this happening.



Also, I would think that the Shadow Broker stores data back ups in other places, so destroying the base wouldn't necessarily destroy all that data. It would just destroy the central location for all of it, preventing the Reapers easy access to it. The equipment and tech found in the base would be destroyed, though.

#57
Ajosraa

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I warn you, large post coming through!;P

I agree with pf17456 on some of that. I don’t think I would want her to step down from her job as SB, though I would love to have her on the team again. I would also feel like I was taking something away from her, especially since she talks about feeling like she can contribute on more of an equal way now. It’s a sense of pride for her. I’d feel bad to take that.

Also, another question, what will we do if Feron is also a squad member?

Maybe they should have only so many squad slots in ME3, or have their availability change, depending on your actions in the past games (1 and 2). Like if you were paragon, and your renegade squad mates didn’t like you anymore, or vice-versa. Or if you cheated on a relationship with one, like Liara and she won’t join your team because of it? If non romance it might not be mentioned at all.

I think her role in me3 will be more important than in me2, but I guess that is somewhat easy. Her recourses do seem to paint her SB ship as a potential home base, Intel and resource source, and basic command center. Also I would like to note, as it seems that many have left this out, that she is already assisted by advanced computer systems through the SB VI, and I’m guessing most process would already be automated or controlled by it. That raises another question for me? Does anyone really need to be physically in the SB ship? Or can it be done remotely? Maybe use a quantum entanglement pair communicator? Maybe that is too easy and the reason there is a sb-ship, is because there is no other way…I don’t know. In any case I see Liara easily fitting the “Go-To info person to trust, in ME3”. I don’t think her network would become a liability more then not having it. I believe the network is just what they need to coordinated massive combined fleets. I think the SB network is decentralized into cells like many organizations that wish to remain hidden, limiting the damage that can be done to it. But working against that is the fact that complete oversight is done only by a very few, that if cut off would disproportionately hurt the network.

About Cerberus: I’m thinking they would want to avoid confronting you right away considering the blow they got during the events of Retribution. Also, even though they might not like you, they would rather use you as a resource then waste resources trying to kill you, UNLESS they thought you have become much more trouble then you are worth. But in the face of the reapers I don’t think they would do that. Sure they might be xenophobic and domineering, but I don’t think they would be that stupid, or even have much motivation to do so. Also, the thing about Udina being councilor will need to be dealt with, unless they choose to default drop it and just gloss over that fact. (Also I had the feeling that Drew was trying to finish up the book too quickly). In me3 I don’t think Shepard and Cerberus would completely cut ties, even if they hate each other. And at the end of ME2, (I did both endings mind you) it really did not seem to me like I was permanently cutting ties with them, even though I blew up the base. Just felt like I made TIM made but I didn’t really feel that I was “on the run” as Jacob put it. I just felt like a contractor whose job was completed. Moving on, maybe see you again, kind of thing. Maybe Cerberus will begrudgingly ask you for help again even if you cost them the base.

I have a feeling they have some big dramatic move coming with the romances in general, like tying them up in a kind of "your lover must save you" kind of thing, like saving you from joining the reapers or something because their trying to indoctrinate you. Maybe not, but I just got a feeling...

For the Reapers attack plans: I think if they knew where the SB base was it would be one of their first targets. It’s out of the way, hidden, and would only take a few barrages from the guns of just one Reaper I would wager to blow it up.( though we don’t know much about the SB-ship’s capabilities, weapons, barrier and hull strength, yadda yadda). This could be a reason for Liara to come to the Normandy in ME3, too keep the operation mobile as she uses the QEPC to access the remains of the network.

On Jlb524’s last point about the Protheans being important again in ME3 somehow is also the way I feel the wind blowing, so to speak. The talks about Protheans with Liara made me think about how it is foreshadowing a possibility, otherwise I almost thought I would never hear about Protheans anymore.

About the alliance: I think that the SB network and the Alliance differ in the TYPE of resources at their disposal. The SB seems to be more slanted towards covert operations (though there are a lot of physical recourses at the networks disposal, as hinted at by Liara). The Alliance would be one to go to for troops, ships, weapons, support staff, and other overt sources of power, Along with the other Galactic governments.

But…in the end things might get shaken up a bit more then we might predict, if the transition from ME1 to ME2 was any indication.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 29 septembre 2010 - 12:50 .


#58
adneate

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jlb524 wrote...

It may even be a good idea for Shepard and Liara to slowly start moving parts of the base onto the Normandy in anticipation of something like this happening.


Planning ahead is the enemy of drama! ^_^ If in ME3 Liara mentions how unlikely it would be for the reapers to locate the base then chances are they will locate the base. Sorta how Miranda the "Experienced Officer" gives the worst advice during the suicide mission that gets people killed.

#59
TMA LIVE

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I think making the base apart of the Normandy might be a bad idea, since Cerberus built that ship. It's already filled with bugs, including Shadow Broker bugs. And we don't know if TIM has some magic words to tell EDI in order to take control of her. Besides, I think that base was built to be able to talk to thousands of people at once, without being traced. A stealth war ship? Not so sure.

#60
adneate

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TMA LIVE wrote...

I think making the base apart of the Normandy might be a bad idea, since Cerberus built that ship. It's already filled with bugs, including Shadow Broker bugs. And we don't know if TIM has some magic words to tell EDI in order to take control of her. Besides, I think that base was built to be able to talk to thousands of people at once, without being traced. A stealth war ship? Not so sure.


Well once you unshackle EDI she doesn't abide by Cerberus rules anymore, since she or it or whatever considers itself part of the crew now. My assumption would be the SR2 goes black after you bomb the Collector Base and TIM has no idea what is going on with Shepard and the Lazarus Cell anymore. However the Shadow Broker base does seem very unique and likely would be impossible to truly transfer operations from the Base to a frigate. You take data but the whole thing, I have doubts. Probably why it will end up being blown to bits in ME3 simply because it's impossible to replace, shifts things up and drives home the point that this is "srs bizniss".

#61
jlb524

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Ajosraa wrote...

I think her role in me3 will be more important than in me2, but I guess that is somewhat easy. Her recourses do seem to paint her SB ship as a potential home base, Intel and resource source, and basic command center. Also I would like to note, as it seems that many have left this out, that she is already assisted by advanced computer systems through the SB VI, and I’m guessing most process would already be automated or controlled by it. That raises another question for me? Does anyone really need to be physically in the SB ship? Or can it be done remotely? Maybe use a quantum entanglement pair communicator? Maybe that is too easy and the reason there is a sb-ship, is because there is no other way…I don’t know.


I'm not sure why it couldn't be done remotely either.  The former SB was stuck there mainly b/c he was a yahg.  He would stick out a bit if he traveled freely around the galaxy and did other things.  Liara wouldn't be such a prisoner in that sense. 

If that's the case, Liara may join up earlier than we thought, once everything is situated.  Perhaps that is what they are doing in the downtime?  Rigging up the Normandy so Liara can work from it.

#62
pf17456

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adneate wrote...

I think if the base has to be destroyed it should be her and Shepard who make that decision, that Shepard and Liara are standing the base looking over all the information pouring in trying to plan an intergalactic counter-attack. Then she realizes the Reapers are heading straight for the base,with the fleet still scattered around the galaxy with no hope of defending the base. That's when blowing the base and the network to bits wouldn't hurt her character because it's the sensible choice to make and her and Shepard are making it together in advance of the attack. In fact she'd probably be the first to bring it up, she knows best the wealth of knowledge and secrets the base represents and that it's fall to the Reapers would be disasterous. It's just a matter of avoiding the overly dramatic scenario of Shepard riding to Liara's rescue just before she blows the base and herself to pieces trying to prevent it's capture.


If it's somehow possible for Liara to retain her position as the SB without the SB base then I don't really see a problem with it. As things stand at present Liara has the knowledge of the galaxy at her fingertips, A ship of enormous size, a huge network of agents at her disposal and her own private army to command. Becoming a squadmate at this point is like the President becoming a private.
Suppose Shepard has to blow up the Normandy to cut the ties with Cerebrus and joins Liara on her ship ? Would that work better ?
Would you find it acceptable for Liara to become Co-Commander of the Normandy in the event of a lost SB base ?

I'd like to see Liara be successful in her 'dream job' and move on once the threat is gone.
I'd like to see Shepard be successful as Commander of the Normandy and move on once the threat is gone.
I'd like to see Liara and Shepard succeed with marriage and a bunch of blue children once the threat is gone

#63
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The only thing that concerns me regarding the suggestion that Liara could transfer her operations to the Normandy, and receive assistance from EDI in co-ordinating and managing her network is the fact that the security of her network could easily be compromised. The fact that the Base is located on Hagalaz makes it extremely difficult to find, and assault. Whereas the Normandy is constantly docking at various ports and docks across the galaxy, some of which are hostile. Considering this, if the Normandy were ever attacked, or boarded by hostile forces, the security of Liara's network could be compromised, and there is less chance of this happening on her base.



As has been stated above though, I like the fact that it's emphasised that Liara is able to defend herself and is independant of Shepard, though. The ridiculous assertion that she is a "damsel in distress" has been rightly debunked once and for all.

#64
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jlb524 wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

I think her role in me3 will be more important than in me2, but I guess that is somewhat easy. Her recourses do seem to paint her SB ship as a potential home base, Intel and resource source, and basic command center. Also I would like to note, as it seems that many have left this out, that she is already assisted by advanced computer systems through the SB VI, and I’m guessing most process would already be automated or controlled by it. That raises another question for me? Does anyone really need to be physically in the SB ship? Or can it be done remotely? Maybe use a quantum entanglement pair communicator? Maybe that is too easy and the reason there is a sb-ship, is because there is no other way…I don’t know.


I'm not sure why it couldn't be done remotely either.  The former SB was stuck there mainly b/c he was a yahg.  He would stick out a bit if he traveled freely around the galaxy and did other things.  Liara wouldn't be such a prisoner in that sense. 

If that's the case, Liara may join up earlier than we thought, once everything is situated.  Perhaps that is what they are doing in the downtime?  Rigging up the Normandy so Liara can work from it.


Like I said, that base was made to talk to 1000's of people across the galaxy at once, without being traced. And that ship was huge, and stayed on one planet. You wouldn't be able to run that kind of business on a stealth warship flying everywhere, and doing it's own thing. Bad enough you're allowing people to go in and out of your ship every time you dock at a city, allowing someone to try and break in, or sneak in.

Also, the Shadow Broker business already seems like a huge job for Liara, that she doesn't have much time for Shepard besides one night.

#65
jlb524

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I guess they could use the Shadow Broker ship if something were to happen to the Normandy (again). It seems like the ship itself never leaves the system, and just keeps....flying and flying around it. Though, the SB ship is much larger than the Normandy (or is it, IDK) so stealth and recon might not be it's thing. Plus, we don't know if it's equipped with guns.



And then there's EDI though, unless there would be some way to move her over to the SB ship.

#66
pf17456

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TMA LIVE wrote...

I think making the base apart of the Normandy might be a bad idea, since Cerberus built that ship. It's already filled with bugs, including Shadow Broker bugs. And we don't know if TIM has some magic words to tell EDI in order to take control of her. Besides, I think that base was built to be able to talk to thousands of people at once, without being traced. A stealth war ship? Not so sure.



I agree with this and thought Legion might be helpful in re-routing, eliminating or altering EDI's programing and doing the same with Cerebrus bugs

#67
adneate

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pf17456 wrote...

Suppose Shepard has to blow up the Normandy to cut the ties with Cerebrus and joins Liara on her ship ? Would that work better ?


Could just assassinate TIM and destroy Cerberus once and for all, but if it took blowing the SR2 to bits to ditch Cerberus once and for all I'd be okay with it.

pf17456 wrote...
Would you find it acceptable for Liara to become Co-Commander of the Normandy in the event of a lost SB base ?


Very much so, I'd like Shepard to be more human and rely on people for support. Less emotionless eternally confident drones please! Plus choosing someone to be the XO instead of just being assigned one could be kind of cool.

#68
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

The only thing that concerns me regarding the suggestion that Liara could transfer her operations to the Normandy, and receive assistance from EDI in co-ordinating and managing her network is the fact that the security of her network could easily be compromised. The fact that the Base is located on Hagalaz makes it extremely difficult to find, and assault. Whereas the Normandy is constantly docking at various ports and docks across the galaxy, some of which are hostile. Considering this, if the Normandy were ever attacked, or boarded by hostile forces, the security of Liara's network could be compromised, and there is less chance of this happening on her base.

As has been stated above though, I like the fact that it's emphasised that Liara is able to defend herself and is independant of Shepard, though. The ridiculous assertion that she is a "damsel in distress" has been rightly debunked once and for all.



It's harder to hit a moving target than it is a stationary one.


Liara's independence and autonomy provide the basis for a continued successful love relationship with Shepard
Lets keep it that way

#69
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I like the fact that Shepard and Liara are relying on each other to succeed in this forthcoming Reaper war. The pair of them need each other, and it emphasises their close bond, and the trust between them. In the context of the romance, it's absolutely beautiful and nurtures the development, deepening and strengthening of their romance and relationship.

#70
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It would be awesome if Liara came with you for missions even if she wasn't a squaddie. It would really suck if she was just an npc who doesn't move from a 3 meter box.

#71
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I like the fact that Shepard and Liara are relying on each other to succeed in this forthcoming Reaper war. The pair of them need each other, and it emphasises their close bond, and the trust between them. In the context of the romance, it's absolutely beautiful and nurtures the development, deepening and strengthening of their romance and relationship.



They make a great pair. I'm looking forward to seeing their dialogue and behavior together develop into more familiarity, intimacy and committment.

I'm also curious to see what the rest of the crew has to say about them as a couple

#72
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pacer90 wrote...

It would be awesome if Liara came with you for missions even if she wasn't a squaddie. It would really suck if she was just an npc who doesn't move from a 3 meter box.


Now that you put it that way, yeah, it would kind of suck. 

That's why I hope she will get to leave for part of the game and join you as a squad mate.

But who knows....we might be way off and she will be a squad mate the entire game.  Though, they would have a lot of explainig to do, like, why isn't Liara running the SB network?

#73
kraidy1117

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jlb524 wrote...

pacer90 wrote...

It would be awesome if Liara came with you for missions even if she wasn't a squaddie. It would really suck if she was just an npc who doesn't move from a 3 meter box.


Now that you put it that way, yeah, it would kind of suck. 

That's why I hope she will get to leave for part of the game and join you as a squad mate.

But who knows....we might be way off and she will be a squad mate the entire game.  Though, they would have a lot of explainig to do, like, why isn't Liara running the SB network?

Feron is running it while Liara is gone.

#74
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TMA LIVE wrote...

Like I said, that base was made to talk to 1000's of people across the galaxy at once, without being traced. And that ship was huge, and stayed on one planet. You wouldn't be able to run that kind of business on a stealth warship flying everywhere, and doing it's own thing. Bad enough you're allowing people to go in and out of your ship every time you dock at a city, allowing someone to try and break in, or sneak in.

Also, the Shadow Broker business already seems like a huge job for Liara, that she doesn't have much time for Shepard besides one night.


You wouldn't be able to run the business as well from the Normandy, but could you still run it? 

That's not the preferred way, but it may become a necessity if the SB ship is destroyed at some point. 

I honestly think it's more likely that the base will remain intact for the entirety of the game, while Feron runs it if Liara ever must leave.

#75
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I wounder if Liara will send SB agents to help shepard in ME3? that would be awkward for me but cool as hell