354 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Good ideas, AFW.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have another theory which is close to yours, but isn't as radical.

The SB would indeed be able to backup Shepard's mission in ME3. The SB is wealthy and has access to vital information, but also the means to distribute it. Information warfare is already a fact of life and in the ME universe the SB has brought it to an epic scale.

I think the Alliance has probably more (financial) resources, but there is a limit to what is actually needed. No doubt it will match whoever is funding Shepard's mission.

That is another possibility I wasn't thinking of....Liara (the SB) doesn't have to be the sole funder of Shepard's ME3 war effort.  The Alliance can pitch in as well.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Another Ilos-like scenario would be too repetitive for BW to use. Full scale war looks unlikely too. The reapers have a force too large to allow a simple epic battle. So, there must be some "secret key" as you suggest.

Yeah, now that I think about it, there has to be a secret key.  Then it's possible the final game won't be all about building up a huge fleet to fight the upcoming battle, but using the SB's resources to scour the galaxy for clues on how to stop the Reapers from invading.  There's no way the Reapers   can be stopped in a space battle, even if every species is 100% into the war effort.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
BW didn't treat the series as a true trilogy (in the sense of it being a traditional consistent story in 3 parts). That would be rather complex. You can see them removing key characters or having characters or events end up in the same storyline. Impact of choices has always been cosmetic. Instead they approach ME as a collection of 3 independent stories that are closely related to each other. Other than having lots of cameos I cannot see choices of parts 1 and 2 playing a major role in the final events. That would give new players a disadvantage. It feels like that's the way how BW approaches the franchise up until now. I don't like the idea, but it looks likely it ends up that way.

Unfortunately, you are probably right.  That's why I don't expect Shepard to be on good terms with Cerberus in ME3, regardless of the base decision.  All Shepards must start out ME3 on the same level.

[Mox Ruuga]

Many, if not most ME2 players seem to think that uniting the various groups Shepard has come into contact with will be the main plot in ME3. I think not. Ashley already said it in ME1: "What use is an assault rifle against a huge fleet of AI Dreadnoughts?" Or a group of ramshackle old civilian freighters? Or a bunch of  krogan or rachni?

Nah, I can't see the full Reaper fleet ever reaching Citadel space, unless some sort of unimaginable trap is devised for them.

Perhaps ME3 will indeed involve a "shadow war" against indoctrinated agents seeking to use that "another way" Harby spoke of? Another plot about activating the Citadel relay might be repetive, but it's more plausible than defeating the Reapers in open combat...

[jlb524]

I guess it's because they show the Reaper fleet approaching the galaxy at the end of ME2. I'm not sure if it would even reach the galaxy in Shepard's lifetime (or even Liara's for that matter).



However, Shepard would still want to stop them from coming, saving future generations (cuz Shepard isn't cruel enough to just watch them come).



Though, during the LotSB cabin scene, Liara does tell Shepard, 'When the Reapers finally arrive, you'll dive into the fray.' so it seems she expects they will get here soon.

[AlexMBrennan]

I don't think Liara is a perfect source of information (how does she, or Shepard, know that the Reapers are en route anyway?) - she's a person, she's worried and might make statements that are not technically true.

In any case they still have the Citadel relay, so they could force a confrontation at any time. So the threat of losing Shepard again is very real

[adneate]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Many, if not most ME2 players seem to think that uniting the various groups Shepard has come into contact with will be the main plot in ME3. I think not. Ashley already said it in ME1: "What use is an assault rifle against a huge fleet of AI Dreadnoughts?" Or a group of ramshackle old civilian freighters? Or a bunch of  krogan or rachni?

Nah, I can't see the full Reaper fleet ever reaching Citadel space, unless some sort of unimaginable trap is devised for them.

Perhaps ME3 will indeed involve a "shadow war" against indoctrinated agents seeking to use that "another way" Harby spoke of? Another plot about activating the Citadel relay might be repetive, but it's more plausible than defeating the Reapers in open combat...

I don't see any way to premanently end the threat other than to destroy the Reaper fleet in combat, without resorting to deus ex machina to solve the problem. The Reapers are very powerful but there aren't unlimited numbers of them and they tried incredibly hard to not just power up and fly into the Milky Way Galaxy. Seemingly power consumption is a problem for them which is likely why they spend thousands of years sleeping, a FTL journey from darkspace to the galaxy was not an attractive option for them. In fleet to fleet combat a trap isn't like an infantry style ambush a trap can simply be the enemy not knowing your current strength and engaging in a battle where the odds are not in their favour. A fleet made up of every warship in the entire galaxy could number in excess of 50,000 starships which would leave the reaper fleet outnumbered 170 to 1 if the final screen of ME2 is any indication of the Reaper Fleet's size. The only other option other than a fleet to fleet battle would be deus ex machina and some sort of Prothean MacGuffin to chase again which is a much weaker plotline.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Well, logic would dictate that the Reapers would want to target the Shadow Broker base, and take control of the network as soon as possible using their indoctrinated slaves, or agents. With the Citadel relay now inaccessible, the Reapers are now deprived of what they consider to be vital whenever they initiate another harvest: information. The Shadow Broker's information network is an excellent alternative, as it provides the information regarding galactic civilisation that they deem to be vital. As Vigil says, "information is power", and the Reapers will wish to acquire as much as possible, as soon as possible.

Considering this, if the Reapers do attack or destroy the SB base, Liara would then inevitably rejoin the Normandy, and become a squaddie once again.

It's also quite possible and very probable that the Reapers already know of the location of the and identity of the Shadow Broker due to former Shadow Broker's dealing with the Collectors.

It's also possible that the role of the Shadow Broker is that of an unwilling and/or unknowing agent of the Reapers, created by the Reapers. Both Liara and Shepard make comments that the engine of the ship is incredibly advance and would have taken decades to design and build, and that Liara also states that the ship is older than the First Contact with the yahog species when she confronts the SB. It's possible that the yahog discovered this and was trying to find a way to get out of it, either to save his own hide and/or his own people.

I think dark energy might have something to do with the Reapers either has their motives or as a means to stop them.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:35 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

This is a theory about the end of ME3. If the reapers are defeated then they will probably be back in the next installment of the series. That has to do with the motives of the reapers. They are not a mad synthetic life form who just happens to attack all organic life forms. First a little introduction...

Are the names Omega and Omega-4 Relay in ME randomly chosen? How about this:

There are so called Omega Point theories dreamed up by real world scientists and philosophers. An interesting variation is the Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point theory. In short, it is possible to build a giant computer which contains all the information in the universe itself. In the end the computer would contain the universe itself, know all, and for all intents and purposes be a god. There is more to it, but you have to follow the links. Also be prepared for some mind boggling implications.

Skip the following list if it is too technical and continue with the next paragraph:

• The universe has finite spatial size and the topology of a three-sphere;
• There are no event horizons, implying the future c-boundary is a point, called the Omega Point;
• Sentient life must eventually engulf the entire universe and control it;
• The amount of information processed between now and the Omega Point is infinite;
• The amount of information stored in the universe asymptotically goes to infinity as the Omega Point is approached.

In the case of the reapers they have taken that literally by transforming organic life into synthetic life. That way life becomes its own god.

"We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure." - Sovereign/Nazara (ME1).

Nazara's statements are absolutely true if they are really trying to approach the Omega Point. Again, follow the links above to see why. That also means that our (or ME's) galaxy is not the only target. The universe is what they are after.

So, it will be much like the Terminator: We'll be back.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I think Dark Energy will play a role in Mass Effect 3 as either the means to stop the Reapers or is their reason for their actions or part of their origin.

[jlb524]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I don't think Liara is a perfect source of information (how does she, or Shepard, know that the Reapers are en route anyway?) - she's a person, she's worried and might make statements that are not technically true.
In any case they still have the Citadel relay, so they could force a confrontation at any time. So the threat of losing Shepard again is very real

Yeah, but I wonder if the writers were dropping hints by having her state that.  I'm looking from a meta-perspective, I guess.

Liara herself really has no clue what will happen in the future.

[jlb524]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

It's also quite possible and very probable that the Reapers already know of the location of the and identity of the Shadow Broker due to former Shadow Broker's dealing with the Collectors.

It's also possible that the role of the Shadow Broker is that of an unwilling and/or unknowing agent of the Reapers, created by the Reapers. Both Liara and Shepard make comments that the engine of the ship is incredibly advance and would have taken decades to design and build, and that Liara also states that the ship is older than the First Contact with the yahog species when she confronts the SB. It's possible that the yahog discovered this and was trying to find a way to get out of it, either to save his own hide and/or his own people.

I think dark energy might have something to do with the Reapers either has their motives or as a means to stop them.

I also think the idea of dark energy will pop up at some point in ME3 (or, they wouldn't have ever mentioned it).

Thinking that the Reapers know where the SB base is scary. 

Re: the yahg, so you are saying he discovered that the SB is an unwilling Reaper agent (or they know where the base is) and was trying to save himself from that?   In that case, Liara should discover this if she goes through the yahg's data files.

[jlb524]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

This is a theory about the end of ME3. If the reapers are defeated then they will probably be back in the next installment of the series. That has to do with the motives of the reapers. They are not a mad synthetic life form who just happens to attack all organic life forms. First a little introduction...

Are the names Omega and Omega-4 Relay in ME randomly chosen? How about this:

There are so called Omega Point theories dreamed up by real world scientists and philosophers. An interesting variation is the Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point theory. In short, it is possible to build a giant computer which contains all the information in the universe itself. In the end the computer would contain the universe itself, known all, and for all intents and purposes be a god. There is more to it, but you have to follow the links. Also be prepared for some mind boggling implications.

Skip the following list if it is too technical and continue with the next paragraph:

• The universe has finite spatial size and the topology of a three-sphere;
• There are no event horizons, implying the future c-boundary is a point, called the Omega Point;
• Sentient life must eventually engulf the entire universe and control it;
• The amount of information processed between now and the Omega Point is infinite;
• The amount of information stored in the universe asymptotically goes to infinity as the Omega Point is approached.

In the case of the reapers they have taken that literally by transforming organic life into synthetic life. That way life becomes its own god.

"We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure." - Sovereign/Nazara (ME1).

Nazara's statements are absolutely true if they are really trying to approach the Omega Point. That also means that our (or ME's) galaxy is not the only target. The universe is what they are after.

So, it will be much like the Terminator: We'll be back.

This is deep stuff...very interesting read.   About the Reapers coming back....I doubt Shepard would be able to destroy all of them so it's possible they will show up again in other ME literature/comic/games/etc.  I also would assume that they aren't just harvesting our galaxy, but others as well.  They want everything.

[AngryFrozenWater]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Oh, and the fact that one of the main objectives of the trilogy thus far, especially the Paragon route, seems to be constructing a powerful war effort either knowingly or unknowingly, seems to suggest that these various factions will prove useful in the forthcoming Reaper war.

Already we have Liara, and her vast resources of intelligence and information that she can provide. In terms of combatants, the Rachni Queen has promised to come to Shepard's aid when the Reapers finally arrive. Legion has confirmed that the geth collective oppose the Reapers, and will ally themselves with organics in the inevitable war. It's heavily implied that Wrex's work in strengthening the krogan will be invaluable. There are going to be many different facets to this forthcoming Reaper war, and a combination of Liara's intelligence network and powerful combatants will be vital.

Playing the Devil's Advocate: How will this work for new players in the series? They have not gathered these allies and thus would have a hard time winning the game.

[AngryFrozenWater]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Playing the Devil's Advocate: How will this work for new players in the series? They have not gathered these allies and thus would have a hard time winning the game.

Well, I hypothesise that whilst the game will not be unwinnable to Shepards that were created in ME3, the losses suffered by galactic civilisation and it's inhabitants will be far greater, and sentient life and it's infrastructure will be heavily damaged to an even greater degree.

If the player has imported a character from ME1 and gathered allies across the trilogy, losses will be lighter by comparison.

I am just trying to find loopholes.

You initially described a war with allies like the rachni, krogan, and others, right? Do you see this as a full scale war? To me, it looks like a full scale war cannot be won by those parties, because the reapers are too strong and/or Wrex could be shot and/or the Queen could be evaporated, and so on. Therefore, it looks like there must be some "key event" instead. It's simpler to do for new players and players with different game saves.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:16 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

You are on a roll now, jbl524. So how about it? What's that "secret key" We'll never hear it from BW.

[JockBuster]

jlb524 wrote...
snip
[*]For those that have read Retribution, we know that Shepard has fallen off the grid....the Alliance has no clue where the Commander has gone to.  One theory I've had is that Shepard is hanging out on the Shadow Broker's base, possibly preparing resources and intelligence for the upcoming war.  Another idea is that Shepard is wanted by the Council/Alliance for something and is hiding out.  Now, if it's the Alliance, I suspect we may be seeing this plot play out in a future DLC.[*]snip

First off I have not read Retribution, I have just played the games (ME1 & 2) many, many times.
[*]The Normandy has been badly damaged during the battle for the Collector Homeworld.[*]The Rachni repaired the Asari's ship to better than new (if you saved the Queen etc).[*]Maybe the Rachni are repairing the Normandy and upgrading it for the coming final showdown with the Reapers, hence "falling off the grid" to prevent any leaks/spying?[*]While Liara harnesses all the SB resources to help Shepard. Liara, "Give me 10 minutes and I can start a war." And the reverse, give me some time and I can build you an unstoppable fleet and allies to take on the Reapers, to find them and "Go take them out!" (And yes I DO like using in game "quotes" in my posts).[*]edit[*]ps Nazara, "We are each a nation...," and Legion, "Many minds, ONE will" (talking about the Reapers). Theory, the Reapers take THE most advanced life form that meets their requirements, then 'distills' them into a new Reaper, hence the collecting of organic DNA, processing it, then transforming the 'raw genetic paste' combined with non-organic material (think metals) to produce an immortal 'new' life form, a Reaper.

Modifié par JockBuster, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:38 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I am just trying to find loopholes.

You initially described a war with allies like the rachni and krogan, right? Do you see this as a full scale war? To me, it looks like a full scale war cannot be won by those parties, because the reapers are too strong and/or Wrex could be shot and/or the Queen could be evaporated. Therefore, it looks like there must be some "key event" instead. It's simpler to do for new players and players with different game saves.

Yeah, that's why I said that it will be a combination of both. Frontline troops and combatants are also going to be vital, and fleets of allies defending sentient life and galactic civilisation will be crucial. However, this alone will not result in Shepard overcoming the Reapers, as Liara and her information network will also prove invaluable, and could be utilised to locate and discover something that will prove vital in the forthcoming Reaper war, such as a powerful weapon or tool that destroys AI programs.

OK. I understand. Still, I think that for new players an end game with lots of losses wouldn't be satisfying. So, I am not saying it won't happen, but I feel it is unlikely.

[Unit-Alpha]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

I think Dark Energy will play a role in Mass Effect 3 as either the means to stop the Reapers or is their reason for their actions or part of their origin.

I, too, am behind this as the possibility. It is a deus ex machina sort of thing, but I suspect that's where it will go. However, I'd say this would be combined with epic space battles as the other races (which may not be in on Shepard's idea/may not believe it will work) try to fight off the Reapers face-to-face.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 29 septembre 2010 - 06:30 .

[adneate]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I am just trying to find loopholes.

You initially described a war with allies like the rachni and krogan, right? Do you see this as a full scale war? To me, it looks like a full scale war cannot be won by those parties, because the reapers are too strong and/or Wrex could be shot and/or the Queen could be evaporated. Therefore, it looks like there must be some "key event" instead. It's simpler to do for new players and players with different game saves.

I'd say that forces will come from several groups, The Asari Fleet, The Turian Peacekeeping Fleet, The Salarian Fleet and The Alliance Fleet being sort of the backbone of the force and the ones you get no matter what even if you start out in ME3. The conditional forces might be the Rachni and The Krogan under Wrex since they are based on ME1 decisions. For ME2 conditionals it would likely be The Qurians and The Geth, though some leg work might be required in ME3 to get one or both if you urge peace in ME2. The wildcard might be Cerberus, so prehaps giving them the base makes them join in too and not giving the base makes them too weak to join up anymore. That's the bulk of the forces in the galaxy a fleet of that size has a chance to take the Reapers down just through sheer numbers, even if it takes 50 to 100 ships to knock out one Reaper. Plus I'm sure Shepard and company will do something suitable suicidal like board Harbringer and blow the King Reaper to bits cutting the head off the proverbial snake.

[jlb524]

I'm sure the game could be completed with just the minimal fleet (human/turian/asari/salarain), but having the extras (the krogan, the rachni, etc.) will lend itself to a better overall experience in the end.

[bjdbwea]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Whilst I think that the Shadow Broker's network would be extremely useful to the Reapers and is something that they will target, I don't think that they created the network or base.

I had not thought of this. Maybe she'll help you as the SB for some time during ME 3, but then at some point her base is attacked by the reapers, or rather their minions, whoever they might be then? Of course Shepard would have to rescue her, of course being successful, and maybe then she'd stay on the Normandy again.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 septembre 2010 - 10:23 .