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Liara, the Shadow Broker, and ME3

Débuté par jlb524 , sept. 28 2010 05:58

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#151
Merlin 47
Posté 01 octobre 2010 - 11:44

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AndroLeonidas wrote...

I read a comment on some gaming sight how a new ME game could be based on Shepard and Liara's child as a Spectre. Following in her father's footsteps and Liara could then make cameos.


But what about all those that didn't romance Liara?  Just curious about that is all.


But yeah, I'm with a lot of you guys and gals on this.  Feron can run operations while Liara is travelling around with Shepard again.  My Shep needs his "best gal friend" back taking down the Reapers.  I do like your ideas about how Liara will find more Prothean technology to help fight the Reapers, Les.  I think that'll be very helpful in the fight against the Reapers, along with all the other allies that we've been amassing since ME 1.

#152
jwalker
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 03:25

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Crap, late to the party....

I'm lazy, so I haven't read every single post in this thread. I apologize if already someone else pointed this out

What about Cerberus / TIM and the new SB?
TIM clearly wanted the old one gone. He didn't give that intel to Shepard out of the goodness of his heart. In a way, Shepard keeps doing TIM's dirty work.

But now, Shepard has direct control access to SB resources and intel. Pretty much the reasons as to why Shepard was working with/for Cerberus are gone, or at least weakened. I doubt TIM is happy about this. 

And definitely I don't like the fact that TIM knows who the SB is. For the old one, anonymity was a great asset. That's gone. TIM doesn't need to plan an assault on the SB base, or an attempt on Liara's life if becomes a problem. All he has to do is leak information. That's bad.

#153
jlb524
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 03:51

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Zulu_DFA wrote...



Liara will definitely join Shepard for the full lenght of ME3. With
Feron. She'll assume the Miranda's position - guide in a couple of first
missions and "second in command" for the rest of it.


How can you be so sure of that?  They may introduce new squad mates to fill that role.

jwalker wrote...

And definitely I don't like the fact that TIM knows who the SB is. For the old one, anonymity was a great asset. That's gone. TIM doesn't need to plan an assault on the SB base, or an attempt on Liara's life if becomes a problem. All he has to do is leak information. That's bad.


I don't like it either.  I don't trust that man, period.  TIM knows where the SB base is, who's there, etc.  That can't be good.  Will be interested to see if that has any consequences in ME3.

#154
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Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 12:27

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jwalker wrote...

Crap, late to the party....

I'm lazy, so I haven't read every single post in this thread. I apologize if already someone else pointed this out

What about Cerberus / TIM and the new SB?
TIM clearly wanted the old one gone. He didn't give that intel to Shepard out of the goodness of his heart. In a way, Shepard keeps doing TIM's dirty work.

But now, Shepard has direct control access to SB resources and intel. Pretty much the reasons as to why Shepard was working with/for Cerberus are gone, or at least weakened. I doubt TIM is happy about this. 

And definitely I don't like the fact that TIM knows who the SB is. For the old one, anonymity was a great asset. That's gone. TIM doesn't need to plan an assault on the SB base, or an attempt on Liara's life if becomes a problem. All he has to do is leak information. That's bad.


Well, I have always assumed that Cerberus and the Shadow Broker refrained from attacking each other, or engaging in open warfare due to deterrence via mutually assured destruction. The situation between the two organisations in similar to the relationship between the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War. If one attacks the other and initiates a war, then both would be destroyed. Considering this, I don't think that TIM considers attacking Liara an attractive proposition. Furthermore, it seems that Liara is now aware of an abundance of intelligence regarding TIM. His dossier details the amount of cigarettes he has smoked and his sexual encounters, after all.

Furthermore, Cerberus has been severely weakened following the events of Retribution, and it seems that Liara would be able to establish dominion over the power that Cerberus has had to relinquish. With Cerberus pretty much gutted, I don't think that TIM represents that much of a threat to Liara any longer. We'll see, but I'm confident that TIM will be unable to seriously compromise Liara or her organisation in any way.

It's a concern, but not a serious one just yet.

#155
jlb524
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 12:30

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I think the point was that TIM could just leak information about Liara and the Shadow Broker base to other groups and this might compromise Liara's position as the SB.

#156
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Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 12:31

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jlb524 wrote...

I think the point was that TIM could just leak information about Liara and the Shadow Broker base to other groups and this might compromise Liara's position as the SB.


Yeah, but TIM's dossier heavily implies that Liara could return the favour, and do the exact same thing. Like I said, it's deterrence via mutually assured destruction.

#157
jlb524
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 12:42

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For now...but if TIM ever gets desperate...

Plus, what does Liara really know? How many drinks, cigarettes, and women TIM has a day. :P

I'm joking...I'm sure there's more we don't see.

Modifié par jlb524, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:42 .

#158
AndroLeonidas
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 01:20

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I think Liara will deal with TIM in her own way. Not out of revenge like the Shadow Broker, but out of a sense of morality. Also... releasing information that she is the Shadow Broker might actually backfire on TIM. Who is going to believe that a 109 year old Asari is the big bad SB? Might be farfetched for some to even consider.

#159
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Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 04:34

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AndroLeonidas wrote...

I think Liara will deal with TIM in her own way. Not out of revenge like the Shadow Broker, but out of a sense of morality. Also... releasing information that she is the Shadow Broker might actually backfire on TIM. Who is going to believe that a 109 year old Asari is the big bad SB? Might be farfetched for some to even consider.


Interestingly enough, I actually hypothesise that Miranda's future story role, should she have survived the suicide mission, will be to work closely with Shepard and Liara in order to assault Cerberus. TIM obviously has his own agenda, and both he and Cerberus are a faction that cannot be trusted, and may be an antagonist to Shepard during the events of ME3. As a result, Liara could provide Shepard with intelligence informing her of TIM's location. Miranda may then become a temporary squadmate, and will accompany Shepard as they assault Cerberus with the goal of locating and apprehending TIM. When he has been dealt with, Miranda may then take control of Cerberus, attempt to reform the organisation, and then also work closely with Shepard and provide additional resources and intelligence to be utilised in the war effort during the forthcoming battles against the Reapers. Highly speculative, I know, but a possibility.

Liara's future role in the story could prove to be invaluable. I actually believe that both her and Shepard are relying on each other to succeed in this Reaper war, and that's quite an incredible feeling as it emphasises the bond between the two characters.

#160
kraidy1117
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 04:42

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

I think Liara will deal with TIM in her own way. Not out of revenge like the Shadow Broker, but out of a sense of morality. Also... releasing information that she is the Shadow Broker might actually backfire on TIM. Who is going to believe that a 109 year old Asari is the big bad SB? Might be farfetched for some to even consider.


Interestingly enough, I actually hypothesise that Miranda's future story role, should she have survived the suicide mission, will be to work closely with Shepard and Liara in order to assault Cerberus. TIM obviously has his own agenda, and both he and Cerberus are a faction that cannot be trusted, and may be an antagonist to Shepard during the events of ME3. As a result, Liara could provide Shepard with intelligence informing her of TIM's location. Miranda may then become a temporary squadmate, and will accompany Shepard as they assault Cerberus with the goal of locating and apprehending TIM. When he has been dealt with, Miranda may then take control of Cerberus, attempt to reform the organisation, and then also work closely with Shepard and provide additional resources and intelligence to be utilised in the war effort during the forthcoming battles against the Reapers. Highly speculative, I know, but a possibility.

Liara's future role in the story could prove to be invaluable. I actually believe that both her and Shepard are relying on each other to succeed in this Reaper war, and that's quite an incredible feeling as it emphasises the bond between the two characters.

Plus Cerberus does have the non working cannon that they where fixing that did kill that Reaper. This would be a great reason to attack Cerberus. Plus I could see if Shepard is in a romance with Miri, they would then take over Cerberus, after TIM is dead of course;)

Miri would be the best person to take over  Cerberus and we know she has changed because of what Liara does say. If you romanced Miri, Liara will state that she has changed and ask if you are fighting for her. Put that with the dev she gets during the game plus her respect for the STG and Asari culture and Cerberus could very well be the humans answer to STG.

#161
TMA LIVE
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 04:53

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kraidy1117 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

I think Liara will deal with TIM in her own way. Not out of revenge like the Shadow Broker, but out of a sense of morality. Also... releasing information that she is the Shadow Broker might actually backfire on TIM. Who is going to believe that a 109 year old Asari is the big bad SB? Might be farfetched for some to even consider.


Interestingly enough, I actually hypothesise that Miranda's future story role, should she have survived the suicide mission, will be to work closely with Shepard and Liara in order to assault Cerberus. TIM obviously has his own agenda, and both he and Cerberus are a faction that cannot be trusted, and may be an antagonist to Shepard during the events of ME3. As a result, Liara could provide Shepard with intelligence informing her of TIM's location. Miranda may then become a temporary squadmate, and will accompany Shepard as they assault Cerberus with the goal of locating and apprehending TIM. When he has been dealt with, Miranda may then take control of Cerberus, attempt to reform the organisation, and then also work closely with Shepard and provide additional resources and intelligence to be utilised in the war effort during the forthcoming battles against the Reapers. Highly speculative, I know, but a possibility.

Liara's future role in the story could prove to be invaluable. I actually believe that both her and Shepard are relying on each other to succeed in this Reaper war, and that's quite an incredible feeling as it emphasises the bond between the two characters.

Plus Cerberus does have the non working cannon that they where fixing that did kill that Reaper. This would be a great reason to attack Cerberus. Plus I could see if Shepard is in a romance with Miri, they would then take over Cerberus, after TIM is dead of course;)

Miri would be the best person to take over  Cerberus and we know she has changed because of what Liara does say. If you romanced Miri, Liara will state that she has changed and ask if you are fighting for her. Put that with the dev she gets during the game plus her respect for the STG and Asari culture and Cerberus could very well be the humans answer to STG.


What does Miranda say about Asari culture?

#162
jwalker
Posté 02 octobre 2010 - 06:36

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kraidy1117 wrote...

Plus Cerberus does have the non working cannon that they where fixing that did kill that Reaper. This would be a great reason to attack Cerberus. Plus I could see if Shepard is in a romance with Miri, they would then take over Cerberus, after TIM is dead of course;)


What cannon ? The one which disabled the reaper with the IFF ?

#163
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Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 03:17

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jwalker wrote...

What cannon ? The one which disabled the reaper with the IFF ?


The very same. As far as we are aware, Cerberus are still in possession of the weapon. This could prove to be an important plot point in the future, as clearly TIM cannot be trusted with such a potent and powerful weapon.

Regarding Liara and her new position as the Shadow Broker, I think that it would be quite interesting if subsequent story bridging DLC quests were assigned to Shepard by Liara, and that emails are received from her as opposed to TIM. This would obviously be on the condition that LotSB has already been played and completed, of course. If not, then Shepard will receive the information from Cerberus as per usual.

#164
jlb524
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 03:44

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Regarding Liara and her new position as the Shadow Broker, I think that it would be quite interesting if subsequent story bridging DLC quests were assigned to Shepard by Liara, and that emails are received from her as opposed to TIM. This would obviously be on the condition that LotSB has already been played and completed, of course. If not, then Shepard will receive the information from Cerberus as per usual.


That would be lovely.  I just wonder if they are going to create 2 emails for such. 

#165
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Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 04:23

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jlb524 wrote...

That would be lovely.  I just wonder if they are going to create 2 emails for such. 


Well, I assume that the creation of two mutually-exclusive text emails will not deplete too many resources. I'm hopeful that the process of Shepard shifting her allegiances over to Liara begins in further story-bridging DLC packs. I speculate that we will be able to sever all ties with Cerberus eventually.

#166
jlb524
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 04:27

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It seems like Shepard has cut ties to Cerberus by the time Retribution takes place. Shepard is gone missing and TIM never mentions the Commander. Given the problems Cerberus had in Retribution, you think TIM would have sent Shepard an email asking for assistance XD

#167
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Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:13

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For some reason, I think we'll be using Liara's intel to blackmail the Council into action. It just seems like the best way to get them off their asses.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 03 octobre 2010 - 05:20 .

#168
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:19

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jlb524 wrote...

It seems like Shepard has cut ties to Cerberus by the time Retribution takes place. Shepard is gone missing and TIM never mentions the Commander. Given the problems Cerberus had in Retribution, you think TIM would have sent Shepard an email asking for assistance XD


Perhaps the trouble Cerberus went through in Retribution is the excuse for them to be irrelevant in ME3? Much like the council in ME2. Maybe i'm just cynical, but I wouldn't put it past Bioware to pull such a dickmove considering the whole "independant" trilogy BS (and how the council was sidelined in ME2).

#169
pf17456
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:39

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TMA LIVE wrote...

For some reason, I think we'll be using Liara's intel to blackmail the Council into action. It just seems like the best way to get them off their asses.


Well, that vid of Udina oogling an Asari azure would be cause for concern on his part.

#170
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Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:39

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jlb524 wrote...

It seems like Shepard has cut ties to Cerberus by the time Retribution takes place. Shepard is gone missing and TIM never mentions the Commander. Given the problems Cerberus had in Retribution, you think TIM would have sent Shepard an email asking for assistance XD


Yeah, exactly. I'm sure that the reasons behind this will be explained in future story-bridging DLC. Furthermore, it is mentioned in Retribution that Shepard has dropped off the grid, and is discreetly hiding out somewhere. I think that it is reasonable to assume that Shepard and the crew of the Normandy are hiding out at the Shadow Broker's base with Liara, possibly plotting their next course of action in order to prepare for this forthcoming Reaper war.

#171
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Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:42

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TMA LIVE wrote...

For some reason, I think we'll be using Liara's intel to blackmail the Council into action. It just seems like the best way to get them off their asses.


I wouldn't really define it as "blackmail" at all, as that would imply that Shepard is antagonising the respective governments of the Council races. I'd consider it to be more akin to prompting them into taking some action, and finally recognising the Reaper threat. Liara now has a wealth of knowledge, information and intelligence at her disposal, and the Shadow Broker was aware of the existence of the Reapers and their intentions. Considering this, it's possible that Shepard and Liara will use this intelligence to give the Council races the kick up the arse they need, and force them into recognising the threat of the Reapers.

#172
pf17456
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:50

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

For some reason, I think we'll be using Liara's intel to blackmail the Council into action. It just seems like the best way to get them off their asses.


I wouldn't really define it as "blackmail" at all, as that would imply that Shepard is antagonising the respective governments of the Council races. I'd consider it to be more akin to prompting them into taking some action, and finally recognising the Reaper threat. Liara now has a wealth of knowledge, information and intelligence at her disposal, and the Shadow Broker was aware of the existence of the Reapers and their intentions. Considering this, it's possible that Shepard and Liara will use this intelligence to give the Council races the kick up the arse they need, and force them into recognising the threat of the Reapers.


That's assuming they haven't been influenced by Reaper tech used to repair the Citadel.

#173
pf17456
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 05:58

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I think Liara will discover that the Protheans with they're interest in genetic anomalies were in fact attempting to undo the genetic manipulation done to them by the Reapers and I also think she'll discover what it was that the Protheans did to themselves to prevent being turned into Reapers.

#174
jlb524
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 06:23

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pf17456 wrote...

I think Liara will discover that the Protheans with they're interest in genetic anomalies were in fact attempting to undo the genetic manipulation done to them by the Reapers and I also think she'll discover what it was that the Protheans did to themselves to prevent being turned into Reapers.


I was under the impression that the Reapers didn't genetically alter the Protheans until after their invasion and subsequent capturing of remaing Protheans.  Unless the Protheans also found out what the Reapers goals were and proceeded to research genetic manipulations in order to prevent the inevitable from occuring.

#175
jlb524
Posté 03 octobre 2010 - 06:27

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

For some reason, I think we'll be using Liara's intel to blackmail the Council into action. It just seems like the best way to get them off their asses.


I wouldn't really define it as "blackmail" at all, as that would imply that Shepard is antagonising the respective governments of the Council races. I'd consider it to be more akin to prompting them into taking some action, and finally recognising the Reaper threat. Liara now has a wealth of knowledge, information and intelligence at her disposal, and the Shadow Broker was aware of the existence of the Reapers and their intentions. Considering this, it's possible that Shepard and Liara will use this intelligence to give the Council races the kick up the arse they need, and force them into recognising the threat of the Reapers.


Hopefully they wouldn't need to resort to blackmail (the evidence should speak for itself).  I wouldn't begrudge them if they did, though.  The Shadow Broker does have connections deep within the Council species governments and hopefully that proves useful in motivating the damn Council races.
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