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[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

For some reason, I think we'll be using Liara's intel to blackmail the Council into action. It just seems like the best way to get them off their asses.

I wouldn't really define it as "blackmail" at all, as that would imply that Shepard is antagonising the respective governments of the Council races. I'd consider it to be more akin to prompting them into taking some action, and finally recognising the Reaper threat. Liara now has a wealth of knowledge, information and intelligence at her disposal, and the Shadow Broker was aware of the existence of the Reapers and their intentions. Considering this, it's possible that Shepard and Liara will use this intelligence to give the Council races the kick up the arse they need, and force them into recognising the threat of the Reapers.

Hopefully they wouldn't need to resort to blackmail (the evidence should speak for itself).  I wouldn't begrudge them if they did, though.  The Shadow Broker does have connections deep within the Council species governments and hopefully that proves useful in motivating the damn Council races.

Shepard: And here's the data taken from the Collector base. Evidence enough?

Salarian Councilor: Hmm... interesting... though it does prove the Collector's were using advance technology, who's to say this isn't of Geth creation, or...

Shepard: You not going to listening to me again... are you?

Asari Councilor: Shepard, you must understand. We cannot act unless we have actually proof that an actual fleet...

Turian Councilor: Oh, let's skip to the point. No, we're not.

(Shepard goes quiet for a moment)

Shepard: Do you mind if I make a phone call?

(The council look at one another, the shrug)

Salarian Councilor: Go right head.

(Shepard makes a call)

Shepard: Oh hey, honey! How you doing? Did you find any... (pause) Really? (pause) That's great! Thank! (pause) I love you too!

(Shepard hangs up and turns to the council)

Shepard: Ok, let's cut to the chase. You don't want to act because you think I'm a crazy person, right? Alright, fine. I'm a crazy person. But I'm a crazy person that knows some very special friends, and one of them tells me (points to Salarian) you're a cross dresser, (points to Turian) you're cheating on your wife Tiger Woods style, (points to Asari) and you were seen making out with your dad last night. And I have evidence of all this.
(pause)
So... do you really want to make me unhappy? Or do I still need more evidence?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 03 octobre 2010 - 07:15 .

[pf17456]

jlb524 wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

I think Liara will discover that the Protheans with they're interest in genetic anomalies were in fact attempting to undo the genetic manipulation done to them by the Reapers and I also think she'll discover what it was that the Protheans did to themselves to prevent being turned into Reapers.

I was under the impression that the Reapers didn't genetically alter the Protheans until after their invasion and subsequent capturing of remaing Protheans.  Unless the Protheans also found out what the Reapers goals were and proceeded to research genetic manipulations in order to prevent the inevitable from occuring.

If I understood the information provided in the game correctly the Reapers genetically altered the Protheans after an unsuccessful attempt at turning them into a Reaper which makes me wonder if the Protheans knew what was coming and did something to prevent it.
After Freedoms Progress we learn from TIM that the Collectors had previously paid large sums of credits and tech in order to acquire subjects with genetic anomalies. So prior to a Harbinger generated motive to Reaperize humans what was the purpose of a Collecter interest in genetic anomalies. Did they retain some sense of Prothean identity ? Were they trying to find a way back ?

[jlb524]

pf17456 wrote...

If I understood the information provided in the game correctly the Reapers genetically altered the Protheans after an unsuccessful attempt at turning them into a Reaper which makes me wonder if the Protheans knew what was coming and did something to prevent it.
After Freedoms Progress we learn from TIM that the Collectors had previously paid large sums of credits and tech in order to acquire subjects with genetic anomalies. So prior to a Harbinger generated motive to Reaperize humans what was the purpose of a Collecter interest in genetic anomalies. Did they retain some sense of Prothean identity ? Were they trying to find a way back ?

I don't think so...the Protheans are gone.  The Collectors were merely gathering these subjects for the Reapers' own experiments. 

I think there are parallels between the Protheans and humans.  Both have been the focus of the Reapers in the past two extinction cycles.  Both species were almost 'Reaperfied'.  Both have had parts of their body replaced by Reaper tech in order to serve them (Protheans -> Collectors, Humans -> Husks).  The Protheans almost succeeded in stopping the Reapers and we know the humans (especiall one, Shepard) have actually done it so far.

The Protheans couldn't have been the only space-faring species alive during the last extinction cycle, but they were the ones that Reapers focused on almost solely for whatever reason...similar to humans now.  Which is a bit odd considering that the humans are relatively new to the galactic community.   Though, we do know the Protheans studied ancient humans from that orb found on Eletania....it's possible that the Reapers got a hold of this data and found humans intriguing and suitable for their 'needs', even primitive humans.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Not bothered reading every page, but as much as I like Liara, I am going to have to play Devil's Advocate here and state that I am curious as to what people think the situation would be with Liara if she... wasn't the Shadow Broker in ME3. ie. If someone didn't either play ME2 or just didn't bother helping her in ME2.



It is all well and good talking about how you see it if someone did do LotSB, but you seem to be forgetting that some people won't. I've not got round to playing LotSB yet as my PC is still broke, but from footage I've seen I get the feeling she wouldn't have been able to get to the position of the Shadow Broker without Shepard's help. Which would mean that if Shepard didn't help her, then she will still be 'peeling back the layers' trying to find the Shadow Broker or in a worse state of affairs (but obviously not dead, because the ME LIs got a free pass to ME3). If that is the case, I wonder if there will be 'another chance' to take out the Shadow Broker in ME3?



Whilst the majority of my Shep's are either friends with Liara or romantically involved, I do have one who doesn't like Asari too much and the only reason she spoke to Liara during the course of the main story in ME2 was to get information on Thane (she enjoyed watching him off Nassana, as I kind of wanted her to have the opportunity to do it in ME lol).



As for if she is the SB going into ME3, I don't exactly see her as mission giver ala TIM, that would kind of make Shep a SB agent, which am sure Liara wouldn't want. Help him with resources, info and looking up potential crew/squad, yeah, but not mission giver.



Whilst she has the potential to be an LI, I think as long term squadmate for ME3 might not be so 'long term', maybe when it gets to the end and things are looking dire against the Reapers with the whole 'we might not live through this' situation perhaps Shepard can persuade her to fight.

[kraidy1117]

You also didn't need to play ME yet in ME2 those events did happen. Yo will get default choices in ME3. Plain and simple.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

You also didn't need to play ME yet in ME2 those events did happen. Yo will get default choices in ME3. Plain and simple.

He. True enough.

The only question is: If somebody who has played both ME1 and ME2, stayed loyal to Liara and didn't buy LOTSB.  Who instead went straight into ME3, will the game then assume that the player continued the relationship? Or will it be reset or something?

[pf17456]

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think so...the Protheans are gone.  The Collectors were merely gathering these subjects for the Reapers' own experiments. 

I think there are parallels between the Protheans and humans.  Both have been the focus of the Reapers in the past two extinction cycles.  Both species were almost 'Reaperfied'.  Both have had parts of their body replaced by Reaper tech in order to serve them (Protheans -> Collectors, Humans -> Husks).  The Protheans almost succeeded in stopping the Reapers and we know the humans (especiall one, Shepard) have actually done it so far.

The Protheans couldn't have been the only space-faring species alive during the last extinction cycle, but they were the ones that Reapers focused on almost solely for whatever reason...similar to humans now.  Which is a bit odd considering that the humans are relatively new to the galactic community.   Though, we do know the Protheans studied ancient humans from that orb found on Eletania....it's possible that the Reapers got a hold of this data and found humans intriguing and suitable for their 'needs', even primitive humans.

Yes the Protheans are gone and so are the Collectors for that matter but the question of why the Reapers failed at converting the Protheans remains. We know the Protheans knew what was coming and took some action in that regard. The former SB seemed to think there was more than the warning and Keeper manipulation. I think if anybody can discover more answers about Protheans it's Liara and if in fact the Protheans found some way of preventing a Reaper conversion then Liara's possible discoveries would indeed be invaluable as a defense against being Reaperized.
Keepers also were a failed attempt at Reaperization and I wonder if they were originally the creators of the mass accelerator weapon used to disable the ancient Reaper in ME2. 
I think Harbinger decided to use the Collectors to target Humans because of what happened with Nazzara but the orb may be relevant. 

[Nerevar-as]

Lizardviking wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

You also didn't need to play ME yet in ME2 those events did happen. Yo will get default choices in ME3. Plain and simple.

He. True enough.

The only question is: If somebody who has played both ME1 and ME2, stayed loyal to Liara and didn't buy LOTSB.  Who instead went straight into ME3, will the game then assume that the player continued the relationship? Or will it be reset or something?

Working from default ME2, I would assume not. Maybe you can reconnect in game. If only for the sake of East Europe.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

*snip*

ME3
will assume that the events of LotSB would have occured, and that
Shepard assisted Liara in taking down the Shadow Broker and rescuing
Feron regardless of whether the player played and completed LotSB. I
believe that Chris Priestly confirmed this just prior to the DLC's
release. Put simply, Liara will be the new Shadow Broker in ME3
regardless of the actions of each individual Shepard.

This.

kraidy1117 wrote...

You also didn't need to play ME yet in ME2 those events did happen. Yo will get default choices in ME3. Plain and simple.

That.

Don't play LotSB, and ME3 will just add it in as part of the default 'canon' (like, Shepard stopping the Reapers in ME1).

[jlb524]

pf17456 wrote...

Yes the Protheans are gone and so are the Collectors for that matter but the question of why the Reapers failed at converting the Protheans remains. We know the Protheans knew what was coming and took some action in that regard. The former SB seemed to think there was more than the warning and Keeper manipulation. I think if anybody can discover more answers about Protheans it's Liara and if in fact the Protheans found some way of preventing a Reaper conversion then Liara's possible discoveries would indeed be invaluable as a defense against being Reaperized.
Keepers also were a failed attempt at Reaperization and I wonder if they were originally the creators of the mass accelerator weapon used to disable the ancient Reaper in ME2. 
I think Harbinger decided to use the Collectors to target Humans because of what happened with Nazzara but the orb may be relevant. 

True, that's why I think Liara's Prothean expertise will come in handy again in ME3.  I think the Protheans knew more about the Reapers and this knowledge has yet to be discovered.

I don't think the orb is relevant (or connected to the Reapers), but it just shows that the Protheans studied primitive forms of species, such as humans.  The Reapers then probably aquired this data after they destroyed the Prothean civilization and this would have, essentially, been their first contact with the humans.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

*snip*

ME3
will assume that the events of LotSB would have occured, and that
Shepard assisted Liara in taking down the Shadow Broker and rescuing
Feron regardless of whether the player played and completed LotSB. I
believe that Chris Priestly confirmed this just prior to the DLC's
release. Put simply, Liara will be the new Shadow Broker in ME3
regardless of the actions of each individual Shepard.

This.

kraidy1117 wrote...

You also didn't need to play ME yet in ME2 those events did happen. Yo will get default choices in ME3. Plain and simple.

That.

Don't play LotSB, and ME3 will just add it in as part of the default 'canon' (like, Shepard stopping the Reapers in ME1).

Well if Shepard didn't do that, then everyone's dead, and that's the main plot. This is DLC. Most likely Liara became the Shadow Broker without Shepard's help if you never played the DLC.

[jlb524]

However, this is important DLC...more important than Bring Down the Sky or Overload, given that it bridges the ME2 to ME3 story. ME3 will just assume all imported Shepards completed it....this is the easiest thing for them to do from a programming stand point. The same will hold true for the next round of story-bridging DLC.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

However, this is important DLC...more important than Bring Down the Sky or Overload, given that it bridges the ME2 to ME3 story. ME3 will just assume all imported Shepards completed it....this is the easiest thing for them to do from a programming stand point. The same will hold true for the next round of story-bridging DLC.

Doesn't matter. If you didn't do it, you didn't do it. Only default players can have forced choices. It's important because it's telling you that Liara killed the Shadow Broker, saved Feron, and took over. That doesn't have to include Shepard helping out.

[jlb524]

Well, I guess we'll see. I don't think it matters either way, tbh, if Shepard was there or not. All that matters is that Liara took down the Shadow Broker and assumed the role.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

No, I believe that Priestly made it perfectly clear that ME3 will assume that LotSB was completed, and that Shepard assisted Liara in taking down the Shadow Broker. Playing LotSB means that the player was able to witness these events unfold, so to speak. I'm assuming that Liara will provide a brief recap of the events of LotSB for those that did not play and complete it. In the event of Liara also being Shepard's LI, I also think that ME3 will feature a quick repeat of the romance reconciliation featured in LotSB for those that did not play it.

Do you have the quote?

[TMA LIVE]

Done.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

jlb524 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

*snip*

ME3
will assume that the events of LotSB would have occured, and that
Shepard assisted Liara in taking down the Shadow Broker and rescuing
Feron regardless of whether the player played and completed LotSB. I
believe that Chris Priestly confirmed this just prior to the DLC's
release. Put simply, Liara will be the new Shadow Broker in ME3
regardless of the actions of each individual Shepard.

This.

kraidy1117 wrote...

You also didn't need to play ME yet in ME2 those events did happen. Yo will get default choices in ME3. Plain and simple.

That.

Don't play LotSB, and ME3 will just add it in as part of the default 'canon' (like, Shepard stopping the Reapers in ME1).

Yes because someone who played ME but didn't play the DLC BDtS failed to stop Sovereign didn't they?
Oh no wait, I did manage to stop him with my Paragon Shep who didn't do the BDtS DLC and IIRC there was no mention of the people involved in BDtS in my ME2 playthrough for that Shep (probably on the count of them all being dead).

I'll give you another example of how Bioware did it right in ME to ME2.

My anti-Asari Shep didn't actually recruit Wrex in ME, not trusting of aliens too much (although Mordin, Garrus and Thane did earn her trust), anyway when it came to importing her for ME2, it stated that Wrex did survive Virmire (no kidding, he wasn't there so he was bound to) BUT, he still ends up dead. Though unlike 'Default ME2 Shep' who did recruit him and did kill him, because he wasn't at Virmire Wreav doesn't mention him during the initial chat with him. Now am guessing this is all due to the fact that it was being with Shepard that gave Wrex the idea of going home to Tuchanka, whereas if not with Shepard, he remains as a Bounty Hunter and obviously ended up dead.

Granted I know they messed up with Garrus a little bit because even if you don't recruit him in ME, when you see him in ME2 he talks as if old buddies but that would be a minor glitch in comparison to Shepard somehow doing some mission that Shep never did.

[jlb524]

Liara's going to be the Shadow Broker in ME3 regardless if someone played LotSB or not. It's easier that way....with all the other variables they'll have to deal with, I think they'll just cut a corner on this one. Perhaps it won't be Shepard that helped her if the player didn't play through LotSB. ...Liara would have eventually found another way.



The events of BDtS still occur even if that DLC was not played. I believe you still hear the news report about it, and the engineers and Kate Bowman all die.

[Elite Midget]

I bet if you fon't get LoTSB than Liara's best buddy doesn't survive the event and Liara will be even more cold and distant to Shepard because of her failure to save her buddy.

[Unit-Alpha]

Because there are no choices allowed in LotSB, I'm going to make an assumption: we will see Liara in a significant position in ME3 as either a squadmember or an Illusive Man-esque figure. Why? Well, if they weren't planning to give her a major role, then the DLC would have allowed us to make some choices as to the outcome (i.e. allow Liara to die or allow us to decide whether or not she becomes the SB). With the lack of such choices in conjunction with the aforementioned scripting and writing elements, it's safe to assume she will be in a major role in ME3.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:40 .

[KendallX23]

i liked the dlc..but as for Liara beeing the SB...not a good idea...she was already going in a darker place before..now as the boss of this information Empire...it can only get worse...she already used the same quotes as the previous boss when it took over...asari or not...power corrupts...and i am afraid of what will happen to Liara