354 réponses à ce sujet

[Stratgtar565]

I would think that, if you didn't play the LotSB DLC, then she would still be the Shadow Broker, only you would have the option of investigating and asking, "How did you become the Shadow Broker?"



And yes, I'd love her to play a major role in ME3. As the only unkillable character in your squads from ME1 and ME2, I'd assume she will play a huge role in the final chapter of the trilogy. Ah, all this talking about ME3 is making me a bit restless to play it, and we don't even know when it will be out! Hopefully it follows the schedule of DA2, where it is released around 1 year and 4 months after the previous game, but without sacrificing quality.



Anyway, it was a great DLC, well worth the $10, and now I have a newfound respect for Liara, whilst previously I brushed her off as if she were a side character.

[bjdbwea]

Stratgtar565 wrote...

Hopefully it follows the schedule of DA2, where it is released around 1 year and 4 months after the previous game, but without sacrificing quality.

That seems to be almost impossible. I'd rather wait longer for a game, so that it can be properly done. Even ME 2 would have needed several months more of development time.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 04 octobre 2010 - 09:56 .

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

Stratgtar565 wrote...

Hopefully it follows the schedule of DA2, where it is released around 1 year and 4 months after the previous game, but without sacrificing quality.

That seems to be almost impossible. I'd rather wait longer for a game, so that it can be properly done. Even ME 2 would have needed several months more of development time.

Yeah, I agree.  I want them to take their time and get ME3 right.  There's a lot of loose ends that need to be tied up (some we've been discussing in this thread, but this is only a faction of all of them).

I think ME2 should be coming out about right now, but oh well.

[kraidy1117]

If only ME2 came out now, it would have been a bit diffrent then the version that was rushed out the door.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 04 octobre 2010 - 04:32 .

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...



Liara will definitely join Shepard for the full lenght of ME3. With
Feron. She'll assume the Miranda's position - guide in a couple of first
missions and "second in command" for the rest of it.

How can you be so sure of that?  They may introduce new squad mates to fill that role.

If only for marketing issues: to allow Mr. Hudson say: "some old SMs will be back full-time".

Liara can't die, has a comic series, and a DLC. She is 2nd most important character of the series. And she does not pack any "Big Choices" to account for (like those in ME2 squad loyalty missions), not even specific paragon/renegade interaction. The only thing is the romantic relationship, but it's just sort of extention to her character that may be simply switched off for those players who did not romance her. I kinda wish they included a couple of lines to account for taking Liara to fight Benezia, and recruiting her late (when she thinks Shepard is a hallucination), but I even doubt such thigs are recorded. So the argument "BioWare won't pass up fully developed characters" applies to Liara first, foremost, and most probably solely to, 'cause she's got no variations of herself across different ME3 imports.

All right, let's face it, Liara fans are luckier than most.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 novembre 2010 - 11:45 .

[KendallX23]

why would i pick Liara as second in command ?she is an information broker...now SB...there are people better qualified for this position

[adneate]

KendallX23 wrote...

why would i pick Liara as second in command ?she is an information broker...now SB...there are people better qualified for this position

It's very valuable to have a second in command who is very detail orientated and a meticulous planner,  she fits that bill quite well. Military skills are secondary since Shepard as Commanding Officer has plenty of that already, so having someone to handle the more mundane aspects of combat operations like logistics and intelligence is a very smart move. Even though she's no war hero or mercenary commander she can take care of herself quite well and in a pinch she'd do just fine in command.

[KendallX23]

she's not the only one who can do the logistics and intelligence

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I'm not prepared to go quote-hunting through a gigantic thread because you won't listen to simple logic and reason.

Go PM Chris if you're desperate for proof.

And Chris's response:

I would suggest you never take "I interpret what any Dev says to mean this" to be true.

[jlb524]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

If only for marketing issues: to allow Mr. Hudson say: "some old SMs will be back full-time" (in front of Tali's cameo footage ).

Liara can't die, has a comic series, and a DLC. She is 2nd most important character of the series. And she does not pack any "Big Choices" to account for (like those in ME2 squad loyalty missions), not even specific paragon/renegade interaction. The only thing is the romantic relationship, but it's just sort of extention to her character that may be simply switched off for those players who did not romance her. I kinda wish they included a couple of lines to account for taking Liara to fight Benezia, and recruiting her late (when she thinks Shepard is a hallucination), but I even doubt such thigs are recorded. So the argument "BioWare won't pass up fully developed characters" applies to Liara first, foremost, and most probably solely to, 'cause she's got no variations of herself across different ME3 imports.

All right, let's face it, Liara fans are luckier then most.

All true...it would be easier to implement her into the story as a squad mate, indeed.  I guess I was wondering about the second in command thing.  Not that I don't think she could do it, but wanted to know why you thought it would be Liara vs. a new squad mate that they would create for that position?

[adneate]

KendallX23 wrote...

she's not the only one who can do the logistics and intelligence

Yes but with the Shadow Broker's network she'd be the best at it and she's much more trustworthy than ME2's XO Miranda who's in very deep with Cerberus, who will be on the outs in ME3 just like the Alliance and Council were in ME2.

[Zulu_DFA]

jlb524 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

If only for marketing issues: to allow Mr. Hudson say: "some old SMs will be back full-time" (in front of Tali's cameo footage ).

Liara can't die, has a comic series, and a DLC. She is 2nd most important character of the series. And she does not pack any "Big Choices" to account for (like those in ME2 squad loyalty missions), not even specific paragon/renegade interaction. The only thing is the romantic relationship, but it's just sort of extention to her character that may be simply switched off for those players who did not romance her. I kinda wish they included a couple of lines to account for taking Liara to fight Benezia, and recruiting her late (when she thinks Shepard is a hallucination), but I even doubt such thigs are recorded. So the argument "BioWare won't pass up fully developed characters" applies to Liara first, foremost, and most probably solely to, 'cause she's got no variations of herself across different ME3 imports.

All right, let's face it, Liara fans are luckier then most.

All true...it would be easier to implement her into the story as a squad mate, indeed.  I guess I was wondering about the second in command thing.  Not that I don't think she could do it, but wanted to know why you thought it would be Liara vs. a new squad mate that they would create for that position?

That's natural, I guess, for Shepard to choose an older companion over any newer one for the job... But I'm also sure that'll be fully justified by the plot. You see, I sort of convinced myself, that Shepard will do some time in jail (instead of getting killed again), so it'll be Liara who comes to the rescue, and the Normandy will be technically hers...

Until maybe we discover some darker traits of her character explored by Mac Walters by putting her (back) in bed with Cerberus. Which is my imagination, of course, on how she may be made "evil", and Cerberus put back in business after some Shepards showed TIM the finger. But it's not too far-fetched.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 octobre 2010 - 07:31 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
And Chris's response:

I would suggest you never take "I interpret what any Dev says to mean this" to be true.

Well, just look at it logically, then. As has been said above, there are absolutely no variables at the end of LotSB, or differing permutations. The DLC has been designed that way for a very specific reason...to ease it's implementation into the story of ME3. Considering this, I doubt that they're going to implement such a major variation as Shepard's presence for the mission.

You mean such a major variation as the like of Wreav being leader of Clan Urdnot if you didn't recruit Wrex or shot him on Virmire?

That kind of major variation?

Taking the above example, logic actually applies more to what I said in comparison to what you are saying.

Don't do LotSB, then the Yahg is still the Shadow Broker in ME3 and Liara is still peeling back the layers trying to find him.

Do LotSB, then Liara is the Shadow Broker.

The permutation lies in doing it or not doing it.

If you look at the gap between ME and ME2, did Shepard do anything really big? Erm, no, Shep was just sent off to go look for Geth. Shep didn't do anything significant that would have people importing wondering what they had missed ie. Helping Liara take out the Shadow Broker.

Yes, after the Normandy got blasted Liara had some wild adventures which lead to her going to Illium and became an Information Broker but Shepard had no physical involvement in that (that the player could control anyway), Another thing to point out, some people if they wanted could completely and utterly avoid Liara if they wanted in ME2. At the sacrifice of having a loyal Miranda, recruiting Thane and Samara and a bunch of upgrades and sidequests you could even avoid Ilium altogether.

Imagine if someone went to that length, imports their Shep into ME3 and all a sudden the game makes out that they did go to Illium and helped Liara? Do you really think Bioware would implement such an idea?

[TMA LIVE]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
And Chris's response:

I would suggest you never take "I interpret what any Dev says to mean this" to be true.

Well, just look at it logically, then. As has been said above, there are absolutely no variables at the end of LotSB, or differing permutations. The DLC has been designed that way for a very specific reason...to ease it's implementation into the story of ME3. Considering this, I doubt that they're going to implement such a major variation as Shepard's presence for the mission.

You mean such a major variation as the like of Wreav being leader of Clan Urdnot if you didn't recruit Wrex or shot him on Virmire?

That kind of major variation?

Taking the above example, logic actually applies more to what I said in comparison to what you are saying.

Don't do LotSB, then the Yahg is still the Shadow Broker in ME3 and Liara is still peeling back the layers trying to find him.

Do LotSB, then Liara is the Shadow Broker.

The permutation lies in doing it or not doing it.

If you look at the gap between ME and ME2, did Shepard do anything really big? Erm, no, Shep was just sent off to go look for Geth. Shep didn't do anything significant that would have people importing wondering what they had missed ie. Helping Liara take out the Shadow Broker.

Yes, after the Normandy got blasted Liara had some wild adventures which lead to her going to Illium and became an Information Broker but Shepard had no physical involvement in that (that the player could control anyway), Another thing to point out, some people if they wanted could completely and utterly avoid Liara if they wanted in ME2. At the sacrifice of having a loyal Miranda, recruiting Thane and Samara and a bunch of upgrades and sidequests you could even avoid Ilium altogether.

Imagine if someone went to that length, imports their Shep into ME3 and all a sudden the game makes out that they did go to Illium and helped Liara? Do you really think Bioware would implement such an idea?

I somewhat agree, but I think it's still going to be canon that Liara became the Shadow Broker, even if Shepard never helped out. After all, it involves Cerberus mailing Liara data, which leads to Liara going to the Trade Center for info, then renting a ship to find and Shadow Broker, and killing him (plus lots of dead Shadow Broker agents along the way). Think of it like what if you never recruited Garrus; He still gets tired of working at C-Sec and goes to Omega and becomes Archangel. That's always canon no matter what.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Yeah but Shepard had no involvement in Garrus leaving C-Sec and going to Omega to become Archangel. Whilst am not saying that Liara can't handle herself, I find it a bit crazy her being able to do all that on her own. In particular as mentioned if you don't even bother seeing her in ME2. Besides, isn't the info from Cerberus first put through to Shepard. Considering the situation between Cerberus and Liara, part of me doubts they'd just go send her the information directly. That is why they asked Shep to go speak to her.



Her taking care of the Shadow Broker alone, would to me be like Tali getting off of Haestrom if Shepard didn't go recruit her. Not saying Liara would be dead (like I imagine Tali will in aforementioned situation) but I don't think she'll be Shadow Broker.



If she isn't Shadow Broker there still isn't nothing to stop her helping Shep in ME3. After all, if we are on the utter brink of extinction due to the Reapers I think that will matter more than Shadow Broker. I just think they'll keep it optional as they did in ME2 whether you go see her or not.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Yeah but Shepard had no involvement in Garrus leaving C-Sec and going to Omega to become Archangel. Whilst am not saying that Liara can't handle herself, I find it a bit crazy her being able to do all that on her own. In particular as mentioned if you don't even bother seeing her in ME2. Besides, isn't the info from Cerberus first put through to Shepard. Considering the situation between Cerberus and Liara, part of me doubts they'd just go send her the information directly. That is why they asked Shep to go speak to her.

Her taking care of the Shadow Broker alone, would to me be like Tali getting off of Haestrom if Shepard didn't go recruit her. Not saying Liara would be dead (like I imagine Tali will in aforementioned situation) but I don't think she'll be Shadow Broker.

If she isn't Shadow Broker there still isn't nothing to stop her helping Shep in ME3. After all, if we are on the utter brink of extinction due to the Reapers I think that will matter more than Shadow Broker. I just think they'll keep it optional as they did in ME2 whether you go see her or not.

What if Cerberus could help Liara directly, to replace the Shadow Broker? Say, sent Kai Leng with bunch of "Cerberus Commandoes" to assist instead of Shepard & Co?

One more reason to think that Liara may become secretly allied with TIM in ME3 (between LOTSB and ME3).

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Could be, but considering how people have reacted to the whole Cerberus thing, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the upcoming bridging DLCs deals with the whole 'Is Shepard still tied to Cerberus or not?' scenario. It would make perfect sense for them to do so because it could also resolve the situation for giving Ash/Kaidan reason to rejoin Shep in ME3 seeing as the whole "Your with Cerberus!" line was the main stumbling block for them rejoining in ME2.



I actually agree with your idea about ME3 starting off with Shepard in custody. The fact peoplle in the Alliance already are saying that (and of course the Alien Council commenting on it being an act of treason) would give that strong foundations I think. It then all comes about as to who is going to help get Shepard out. Would be silly to assume we won't have another red-shirt + ME3 squadmate situation at the start. So the question then lies as to who the squadmate is. I think it'll either be Liara (if you helped her become the Shadow Broker and she is LI), Ash/Kaidan (if you cut off ties with Cerberus and possibly LI) or ME2 Squadmate (if LI survived) or maybe even one of the NPCs we seen already that will become a squad mate in ME3 perhaps?



Don't get me wrong, I think your idea about how they can handle the LotSB situation if Shep doesn't help is far more plausible than the silly notion that Shep does it even if the player didn't. I just think they might keep the story more akin to the Wrex situation, in that if you did it, Liara is SB, if you didn't, then she is still looking.

[morrie23]

I serioulsy doubt Cerberus will be much use in ME3, seeing as the events in Retribution are canon and occur sometime between ME2 and ME3.

As you say Ulrich, VS DLC would be a prime opportunity to sort out Sheps relationship with Cerberus once and for all, while simultaneously reconciling with the VS.

I have no idea how BW will incorpoate the events of LotSB into ME3 if you import a save were it wasn't played. I personally think they will just skip over it, have Liara be the SB regardless and maybe add in a conversation to explain to those players. If they're that bothered by it they can go back to play the LotSB! But I'm pretty sure it will be incoporated regardless, some BW peeps have indicated as much.

Modifié par morrie23, 05 octobre 2010 - 01:14 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Don't get me wrong, I think your idea about how they can handle the LotSB situation if Shep doesn't help is far more plausible than the silly notion that Shep does it even if the player didn't. I just think they might keep the story more akin to the Wrex situation, in that if you did it, Liara is SB, if you didn't, then she is still looking.

Well, even if we take it akin to Wrex situation, it returns Liara as TSB in ME3.

You don't recruit Wrex = Wrex dead. You recruit Wrex, Wrex still can be dead, killed by Shep's own / Ashley's hand. And the non-import ME2 game assumes this scenario. Wrex alive is in this case a secondary scenario, achieved through a "Big Choice" - to kill him or use an option to talk him down.

You don't do LotSB = Liara is TSB. You do it, she is still TSB, with Shep's help. And that's what thew ME3 default will probably be. No secondary scenario here, 'cause there is no "Big Choice" in there - something the people have already mentioned as BioWare's desire to not overcomplicate things. BTW, there is a dialogue option where Shepard proposes to blow the Shadow Broker's ship up, if Liara feels like it, but she says there's no need.

I really can't see how the writers can let this end remain loose. Both Liara and Cerberus need the Shadow Broker to go down, so there is strong possibility they'll find each other once more, even if Shepard is unavailable.

I can't even see any real obstacles for them to cooperate other than Shepard's allegged mistrust of Cerberus. Liara obviously has no other loyalties to maintain. She is too young not to seem an upstart to other Asari there - in addition to being a pureblood and a daughter of a rogue matriarch... So I bet Uncle Tim is not forlorn in seeking her friendship while Commander Shepard is away...

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:21 .

[jlb524]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's natural, I guess, for Shepard to choose an older companion over any newer one for the job... But I'm also sure that'll be fully justified by the plot. You see, I sort of convinced myself, that Shepard will do some time in jail (instead of getting killed again), so it'll be Liara who comes to the rescue, and the Normandy will be technically hers...

I had a similar idea.  I think imprisonment is the easiest way to reset Shepard's abilities without going down the death route again.  This imprisonment could even last for a few years, and Shepard will have to suffer through more lost time.  This would give the writers time to move the story ahead and show some radical changes to the galaxy. 

Of course, Liara would be the only choice amongst former squad members to rescue Shepard.  Also, she could possibly be assisted by the Virmire Survivor.   It couldn't be an ME2 squad mate, as there are just too many possible combinations out of 12 of them that could have survived/not-survived the suicide mission.  With the VS, there's only two possibilities, Ashley or Kaidan, and that's a lot easier to manage.

[Kappa Neko]

I, too, believe that Liara will play a huge part in ME3. It CAN'T be a coincidence that she's the only character who couldn't die. I'm pretty sure as the new Shadow Broker she'll be the one providing the key for the destruction of the reapers. If that means she won't be a quadmate, so be it. If you can still interact with her plenty, I'm satisfied.
I just hope BW does not inject some Star Wars into the whole Shadow Broker thing with the temptation of the dark side mentioned. That would ruin everything. I'd like to see a less cute side of Liara but more along the lines of her waking up from her unconditional love for Shepard. Then again that's how she is and how people like her.

[TMA LIVE]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

There's precedence for this too, concerning DLC. Bring Down the Sky is a part of the ME series canon, and a default ME2 playthrough will inform the player that Balak was killed, and the hostages were sacrificed. There's a reason as to why there are no variables in LotSB - to ease the process of it's implementation into ME3's story.

Nowhere in that news report said Shepard had anything to do with it.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's natural, I guess, for Shepard to choose an older companion over any newer one for the job... But I'm also sure that'll be fully justified by the plot. You see, I sort of convinced myself, that Shepard will do some time in jail (instead of getting killed again), so it'll be Liara who comes to the rescue, and the Normandy will be technically hers...

I had a similar idea.  I think imprisonment is the easiest way to reset Shepard's abilities without going down the death route again.  This imprisonment could even last for a few years, and Shepard will have to suffer through more lost time.  This would give the writers time to move the story ahead and show some radical changes to the galaxy. 

Of course, Liara would be the only choice amongst former squad members to rescue Shepard.  Also, she could possibly be assisted by the Virmire Survivor.   It couldn't be an ME2 squad mate, as there are just too many possible combinations out of 12 of them that could have survived/not-survived the suicide mission.  With the VS, there's only two possibilities, Ashley or Kaidan, and that's a lot easier to manage.

Possibly being rescued by the Shadow Broker's private army maybe? Or Feron?