18 réponses à ce sujet

[Forb.Jok]

Basically, I'm wondering if doing so will have any negative repercussions.
I'm guessing not, since WK is just an optional area, however, I don't know, as I believe I let him live before.

On one side, doing so is obviously morally dubious (and as he says, poor sport), and my character is supposed to be a good guy. On the other hand, I DO want the Deck Of Many Things, and there doesn't seem to be any other way to get it.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Sure there is. Just bet on the way out when gambling the first or second time (as you will always lose the third time). If you win, he'll attack.

[HoonDing]

He's evil, anyway, might as well kill him.

Do what Keldorn would do.

Modifié par virumor, 29 septembre 2010 - 09:54 .

[lroumen]

How do you know that he is evil if you haven't had the chance to cast detect evil?

I think any CN person would actually take a roleplaying choice of gambling rather than attacking.

[HoonDing]

He's a cambion, IIRC.

And I would vote for gambling and win as much as you can, then killing him. 

Modifié par virumor, 29 septembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[lroumen]

Prejudice. Drizzt is a drow but chaotic good and you can even get Viconia to change her ways. So you never know... there is always a chance that the cambion in front of you is in fact as good as a cleric of Lathander.

[HoonDing]

Cambions are half-devil, hence evil by nature. Drow are a product of their society (although 4th edition introduced some new "demon blood" nonsense).

[Seagloom]

Iroumen has a point. According to the first Planescape Monstrous Compendium, one in ten cambions is chaotic neutral or chaotic good depending on its human mother's alignment. Similarly, 20% of Alu-Fiends are chaotic neutral or true neutral if their human fathers are non-evil. Aesgareth could actually be some shade of neutral. I doubt he is good given his violent retaliation after losing the "way out" bet though. On a side note, Cambions are half-demon in 2e. 3e did away with Cambions and Alu-Fiends in lieu of a generic half-fiend template that encompassed both fiend types.

Modifié par Seagloom, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:39 .

[Fallschirmjager007]

The first time I ever encountered Aesgareth, I didn't like his tone of voice, and I certainly didn't like his suggestion that the only way to escape was by gambling on a card game (which *surely* would have been rigged against me anyways!) That time I just followed my gut feeling and hacked him up.



IIRC Aesgareth isn't necessarily "evil," but he definitely isn't good. I mean, if you lose the bet and give him the scepter, it gives it back to you so that you can escape. Of course, if YOU win the bet, he attacks you. So he's classy when he wins but he's an **** if he loses.



Can you pickpocket him? Or is killing him the only way to get the Deck of Many Things?

[Forb.Jok]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Sure there is. Just bet on the way out when gambling the first or second time (as you will always lose the third time). If you win, he'll attack.

Maybe, but then I wouldn't be able to win the other items from him.
On the third bet (after relieving him of his two items), I don't think it's possible to win, as he always gets the Wheel, which is higher than any of the two possible draws you can get.

Anyway, I just refused to give him the scepter, and killed him.
Not the nicest thing to do, but I got the deck.
Hopefully it won't make any difference.

[HoonDing]

Seagloom wrote...

Iroumen has a point. According to the first Planescape Monstrous Compendium, one in ten cambions is chaotic neutral or chaotic good depending on its human mother's alignment. Similarly, 20% of Alu-Fiends are chaotic neutral or true neutral if their human fathers are non-evil. Aesgareth could actually be some shade of neutral. I doubt he is good given his violent retaliation after losing the "way out" bet though. On a side note, Cambions are half-demon in 2e. 3e did away with Cambions and Alu-Fiends in lieu of a generic half-fiend template that encompassed both fiend types.

Thanks for the detailed information. But aren't the cambions (twin children of Belhifet) of Icewind Dale 2 half-devil?

Modifié par virumor, 29 septembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Seagloom]

No, thank you. I was afraid I came across as a know-it-all earlier.

Icewind Dale II is under 3e rules so I guess that makes them generic half-fiends. Cambions are a strictly 2e thing, lore wise. If we were going by 2e terms they couldn't be cambions anyway simply because their mother was an elf. Cambions necessitate a human mother. The FR wiki claims they are Daemonfey but I disagree with that, as Daemonfey are extremely specific to a particular elven house. So yeah... the lazy answer is half-fiend.

Edit: I decided to dig up my copy of Guide to Hell to look this up. Apparently 2e half-devils are known as Devilkin. That is what Belhifet's children should technically be. Devilkin are the offspring of a male devil and mortal mother; which fits for Ilmadia. Unlike cambions there is no human restriction.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:41 .

[HoonDing]

Hmm, do all fiends & demons have the power to shapechange, like Belhifet, or was this merely a plot device? Otherwise I can't really imagine a pit fiend, marilith or baalor conceiving a child with a mortal.



Very conveniently, of course, certain creatures of the Lower Planes appear almost humanlike.

[Seagloom]

Nope. There are fiends on either end of the alignment spectrum capable of changing shape but many lack the ability. In the case of 2e devils, females are unable to reproduce meaning the ever popular Erinyes are not child bearers. I'm pretty sure 3e changed that though.

It is rarely consensual and death either at the moment of childbirth is not unheard of. Keep in mind these same fiends also sleep with succubi and such when inclined, and their proportions are human-like. Demogorgon sired offspring with Malcanthet according to 3e lore, and she is fairly typical of a succubus. A bit taller perhaps, but not Demogorgon's stature by any stretch of imagination. It could be intercourse is not as we imagine it to be with certain fiends. The books are unsurprisingly vague on specifics, but it does happen. Also as you write, many fiends are humanoid in appearance to begin with. This is almost universally true of unique fiends like Belhifet. Almost every time someone writes a one of a kind demon or devil, they resemble a human or elf.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:14 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

@Seagloom I think it's only right that they resemble humans. They have to represent our bad traits after all.

Dragons are a different matter - they are to a large part actual (or autonomous) mythology. They can be good, bad or transcending these things and often they have played a large part in the creation of the world.

[Seagloom]

Yup. I suppose it makes sense. Demons in particular are literally embodiments of mortal sin. Every time a mortal has discovered a new perversion or act of cruelty the Abyss spat out another demon type to represent it. The thing I find a little weird is how many unique fiends are humanoids. There are monstrous examples such as Demogorgon and Obox-ob, but way more hawties (of both genders) with horns and stuff. XD

Dragons are totally different. The game covers several dragon myths which is pretty cool. I'm a bigger fan of snake-like creatures in D&D than dragons, but I think the latter is often unfairly overlooked for being too prolific. Being able to draw a line from real world myth to the game is one the neatest things about it for me.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[HoonDing]

Interestingly NWN2 wiki mentions that Mephasm, who supposedly was Neeshka's old man, was in fact a pit fiend.



But one can look at it the other way as well - Planetars & Solars are giant-like as well, and have produced offspring (like Kaelyn). And I don't suppose those beings would risk it if it would mean the demise of their mortal consort.

[Seagloom]

Planetars and Solars can cast Shape Change and Polymorph Any Object. That lets them change their partner's physical form in addition to their own. Devas can also polymorph. Solars can cast Wish too. Immaculate conception, anyone? XD So yeah, it's not an issue with them.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 septembre 2010 - 01:05 .

[Zaxares]

Simple answer: "It's MAGIC!" *chuckles*