304 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

Permutation wrote...

I don't think so. It's an effing gravitational singularity for [insert diety here] sake. All I am saying is, there is very little difference in the damage and behavior between singularity at the start of a new game and fully upgraded. Where's the upgrade? I don't want a singularity that is essentially the equivalent of a miniature tornado. There is no sense in upgrading powers when they aren't really advancing in any way in their behavior or visually, with just a stat increase. Where is the reward? Where is the incentive for invested playtime and points? Singularity specifically, and adepts in general feel very much neglected in ME2. That's my opinion.

Can you name one power in ME2 that does change? AR doesn't, Cloak doesn't, Tech Armor doesn't, Charge doesn't, Combat Drones don't. Only thing changing are the stats (duration, damage bonus, cd reduction etc). There is a huge difference between lvl 1 and lvl 4 Singularity, lvl 1 will be gone once when it hits an enemy, where a Heavy SIngularity will hold them in place up to 10s (with duration bonus & upgrade); quite a difference.

Leon Zweihander wrote...

Again, use your teammates to strip a defense bar then you can do CC to your heart's content if warp detonations aren't your thing.  The main point of teammates in Insanity is to use their powers to take off defense bars.  Have you even used your teammates at all?

Don't bother the Spamming Troll Leon, he hasn't got a clue how to play ME2. He doesn't know how to use Throw or Pull (two of the best powers around), he doesn't know how Singularity works nor Warp. The Spamming Troll would like having a power that kills everything instantly without any challenge or strategy whatsoever. A 5 s cooldown on powers like
Reave or Pull (squadies) are way to long, almost useless it seems [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie] - defense stripping obviously issomething very complicated. Worst of all is that the Troll (claims he) likes biotics, but never even tried using them on Insanity. Adepts are forbidden to use guns in the Troll's universe (playing a shooter without shooting is beyond my logic). But what can you expect form someone calling himself The Spamming Troll [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 10 octobre 2010 - 10:54 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Leon Zweihander wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if your trying to make an argument that playing on insaity with the shiruken is the same as having an AR, the shotty, and a snipper rifle, your crazy. biotics mean nothing when enemies have protections up, so what do i do when every enemy has protections??? i fire my shiruken. i shiruken the hell out of those mechs and harbingers butt. while soldiers snipe, shotgun faces, and make it rain with the AR. for reals, thats rediculouse.

on the other hand if your trying to say playing with the shiruken on normal is similar to having the AR, the shotty, and the sniper, then sure im sortof with you. because were judging this game on the 15th run through and i could use a BB gun on insanity.

     Holy ***** these same old arguments, you're really frustrating me and probably a lot of the others.  The game is based around teamwork, use your teammates for crying out loud.  Casters even have an advantage over the regular fighters in this regard, use a teammate to strip a defense bar then you can use warp explosions with the other.  Even laying a singularity where mobs are/will be clustered does the job.  Is clicking *one* ability so hard to do?  As for weapon setups again casters get access to AR/sniper rifles/shotguns midway while the other classes get their upgraded weapons, as if biotics weren't incredible as it already is.

the game isnt based around teamwork. thats like saying the game is based on a story. your squadmates do half the damage shepard does, abilities take 4 times longer to recharge, and are not nearly as reliable with weapons as shepard is. who cares if garrus has the mattock or not, hes not shepard. its vertually imposible to assume im going to be warp exploding non stop. i might as well be trying for warp blasts tho since singulartiy is the ONLY effective ability on enemies who happen to still have 1 point in shields left.

Another instance of someone else having a different version of ME2 than I do, somehow.

Most of the squadies seem to have no problem hitting with their weapons, and most of them get cooldown reductions as part of their passive/class power. 

[lazuli]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Another instance of someone else having a different version of ME2 than I do, somehow.

Most of the squadies seem to have no problem hitting with their weapons, and most of them get cooldown reductions as part of their passive/class power. 

He's not talking about their accuracy.  In that regard, ME2 is miles ahead of ME1.  In ME2, squadmate weapon damage is reduced when compared to Shepard's weapon damage.

[Killjoy Cutter]

lazuli wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Another instance of someone else having a different version of ME2 than I do, somehow.

Most of the squadies seem to have no problem hitting with their weapons, and most of them get cooldown reductions as part of their passive/class power. 

He's not talking about their accuracy.  In that regard, ME2 is miles ahead of ME1.  In ME2, squadmate weapon damage is reduced when compared to Shepard's weapon damage.

I guess I read the "reliable" comment as being about accuracy.

[The Spamming Troll]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Another instance of someone else having a different version of ME2 than I do, somehow.

Most of the squadies seem to have no problem hitting with their weapons, and most of them get cooldown reductions as part of their passive/class power. 

He's not talking about their accuracy.  In that regard, ME2 is miles ahead of ME1.  In ME2, squadmate weapon damage is reduced when compared to Shepard's weapon damage.

I guess I read the "reliable" comment as being about accuracy.

well in ME2 the squadmates atleast dont shoot into my back or into a wall for five minutes, so it is actually related to accuracy. but if your saying i bring along garrus becasue he has a sniper rifle, and if you excpect me to think garrus can do anything like i can do wit ha sniper rifle, your wrong.

ofcorse its convenient to have garrus or miranda to use their debuffs, but is that the only reason i have them there? to get rid of the implementation that bioware added to add challenge? maybe i just hate enemy protections so much, that it trickled into my hatred for using debuffs.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Don't
bother the Spamming Troll Leon, he hasn't got a clue how to play ME2.
He doesn't know how to use Throw or Pull (two of the best powers
around), he doesn't know how Singularity works nor Warp. The Spamming
Troll would like having a power that kills everything instantly without
any challenge or strategy whatsoever. A 5 s cooldown on powers like
Reave or Pull (squadies) are way to long, almost useless it seems [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]
- defense stripping obviously issomething very complicated. Worst of
all is that the Troll (claims he) likes biotics, but never even tried
using them on Insanity. Adepts are forbidden to use guns in the Troll's
universe (playing a shooter without shooting is beyond my logic). But
what can you expect form someone calling himself The Spamming Troll [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

uhhhhh......what?!? you couldnt be more wrong.

id love to steer you in the right direction here but it seems that efforts a lost cause.

[brfritos]

lazuli wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Another instance of someone else having a different version of ME2 than I do, somehow.

Most of the squadies seem to have no problem hitting with their weapons, and most of them get cooldown reductions as part of their passive/class power. 

He's not talking about their accuracy.  In that regard, ME2 is miles ahead of ME1.  In ME2, squadmate weapon damage is reduced when compared to Shepard's weapon damage.

The combat in ME1 and ME2 works very differentely regarding squad use, I don't like to compare the games because of this.

In ME1 the squad do the same damage as Shepard, true, but they also suffer from accuracy equal as Shepard.
If you don't invest in accuracy and use some weapon mods to enhance this, they don't hit nothing.
In ME2 this is not a concern, in fact, the squad is much better than Shepard at aim, but don't do the same damage to balance the game.

In the end the results are pretty much equal.

[Leon Zweihander]

The problem here is that you're looking at ME2 with the first game's combat system. It bothered me too that they added the global cooldowns, but that's one of the ways Bioware simplified the game to cater to a wider audience (aka profit for future games). You're deluding yourself if you're thinking separate cooldowns will be back for ME3, at best they may separate biotic, tech, and combat cooldowns.

[brfritos]

Leon Zweihander wrote...

The problem here is that you're looking at ME2 with the first game's combat system. It bothered me too that they added the global cooldowns, but that's one of the ways Bioware simplified the game to cater to a wider audience (aka profit for future games). You're deluding yourself if you're thinking separate cooldowns will be back for ME3, at best they may separate biotic, tech, and combat cooldowns.

If they separate the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns it will make more sense and it will be more fun, at least.

What I'm more concerned is about the choices we make in the game, because for what we've seen in ME1 and ME2 they won't have repercusions at all.
Excepeting getting mails and cameos. 

[Permutation]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Permutation wrote...

I don't think so. It's an effing gravitational singularity for [insert diety here] sake. All I am saying is, there is very little difference in the damage and behavior between singularity at the start of a new game and fully upgraded. Where's the upgrade? I don't want a singularity that is essentially the equivalent of a miniature tornado. There is no sense in upgrading powers when they aren't really advancing in any way in their behavior or visually, with just a stat increase. Where is the reward? Where is the incentive for invested playtime and points? Singularity specifically, and adepts in general feel very much neglected in ME2. That's my opinion.

Can you name one power in ME2 that does change? AR doesn't, Cloak doesn't, Tech Armor doesn't, Charge doesn't, Combat Drones don't. Only thing changing are the stats (duration, damage bonus, cd reduction etc). There is a huge difference between lvl 1 and lvl 4 Singularity, lvl 1 will be gone once when it hits an enemy, where a Heavy SIngularity will hold them in place up to 10s (with duration bonus & upgrade); quite a difference.

Adrenaline Rush, Cloak and Tech Armor are bad examples. There is a clear difference between Incendiary and the fully upgraded Inferno ammo, with the possibility of igniting surrounding enemies. It's behavior actually advances. While AR, Cloak and Tech Armor are powers in the game, they are more skills than anything, Shepard isn't manipulating a mass effect field with his mind. Singularity is natural event contained within a mess effect field, more an ability than a skill, and when upgraded, it's expected that Shepard's ability to manipulate such an event or phenomena has increased. It's either a singularity or it's not. There is no partial singularity. But Shepard's ability to synthesize a singularity and manipulate the surrounding mass effect field should advance, especially in the final upgrade, and with two specializations.

[khevan]

brfritos wrote...

Leon Zweihander wrote...

*snip*
You're deluding yourself if you're thinking separate cooldowns will be back for ME3, at best they may separate biotic, tech, and combat cooldowns.

If they separate the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns it will make more sense and it will be more fun, at least.
*snip*

While seperating the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns would make sense from a realism perspective, it'd totally screw with game balance.  The Sentinel would become the total overpowered class, being able to cast a Tech Armor, and immediately be able to cast a biotic ability.  Tech armor is balanced by having a high cooldown, removing that balance would make Sentinel's entirely too powerful.

If Bioware implements an entirely new combat system for ME3, I'd prefer that they seperated the cooldowns, but not if they keep a similar power structure to ME2.

[The Spamming Troll]

i like the fast paced nature of global cooldowns. the little half moons works alright and i agree biotics, techs, weapons, and medigel should all be on seperate cooldowns, tho im not sure how to implement that. the wierd thing about global cooldowns in ME2 is that bioware only allows for 3 hotmapped abilities. if you give me one cooldown for all my abilities, why only give me 2 buttons for choosing several abilites. i never even use B for melee, but id love to use it for sabotage on my sentinel. even more so id rather have the return of overheating weapons so i dont have to waste a button on reloading. but thats a whole nother discusion.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 octobre 2010 - 08:41 .

[cruc1al]

khevan wrote...

brfritos wrote...

Leon Zweihander wrote...

*snip*
You're deluding yourself if you're thinking separate cooldowns will be back for ME3, at best they may separate biotic, tech, and combat cooldowns.

If they separate the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns it will make more sense and it will be more fun, at least.
*snip*

While seperating the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns would make sense from a realism perspective, it'd totally screw with game balance.  The Sentinel would become the total overpowered class, being able to cast a Tech Armor, and immediately be able to cast a biotic ability.

What makes you think the exact same sentinel class will appear in ME3? There are several ways to make hybrid classes balanced after giving them separate cooldowns for different types of powers; it could be incorporated in the cooldown system somehow, e.g. using a tech power before a biotic cooldown has finished would result in a hefty increase in cooldown for the tech power. Or just make the powers of hybrid classes lesser than those given to pure classes.

Furthermore, it could be made so that bonus powers don't suffer from these ill effects.

[khevan]

cruc1al wrote...

What makes you think the exact same sentinel class will appear in ME3? There are several ways to make hybrid classes balanced after giving them separate cooldowns for different types of powers; it could be incorporated in the cooldown system somehow, e.g. using a tech power before a biotic cooldown has finished would result in a hefty increase in cooldown for the tech power. Or just make the powers of hybrid classes lesser than those given to pure classes.

Furthermore, it could be made so that bonus powers don't suffer from these ill effects.

Apparently you missed the part of my post where I said that I'd be for seperate cooldowns if they balanced the powers to them (or words to that effect.)

I was pointing out a potential flaw to the seperate cooldown idea, and saying that if this flaw was avoided, I'd be ok with it.  Please read all of my post before trying to tear it apart.  Thanks.

[cruc1al]

khevan wrote...

Apparently you missed the part of my post
where I said that I'd be for seperate cooldowns if they balanced the
powers to them (or words to that effect.)

I was pointing out a
potential flaw to the seperate cooldown idea, and saying that if this
flaw was avoided, I'd be ok with it.  Please read all of my post before
trying to tear it apart.  Thanks.

Well I'm sorry. You said "I'd prefer that they seperated the cooldowns, but not if they keep a
similar power structure to ME2", and apparently my brain didn't register it. Maybe because it was in a different paragraph and I didn't expect you to first say that separate cooldowns would be a bad idea, then make a 180 turn and base that only on a vague indication at "power structure".

Modifié par cruc1al, 11 octobre 2010 - 03:29 .

[Fixers0]

My,main problem with the classes in Mass effect 1 and Mass effect 2, not how but why.

In general classes are suposed to give a different style of gameplay, yet in Mass effect 1 and 2 you always play as a solder the only difference it the tools that you get to do the job.

Example: an infiltrator is suposed to hack into defence system, silendly take out enemies and avoiding patrols, in Mass effect 1 and 2 he is played in the same way as a soldier: kill all enemies that you encounter.

[khevan]

cruc1al wrote...

khevan wrote...

Apparently you missed the part of my post
where I said that I'd be for seperate cooldowns if they balanced the
powers to them (or words to that effect.)

I was pointing out a
potential flaw to the seperate cooldown idea, and saying that if this
flaw was avoided, I'd be ok with it.  Please read all of my post before
trying to tear it apart.  Thanks.

Well I'm sorry. You said "I'd prefer that they seperated the cooldowns, but not if they keep a
similar power structure to ME2", and apparently my brain didn't register it. Maybe because it was in a different paragraph and I didn't expect you to first say that separate cooldowns would be a bad idea, then make a 180 turn and base that only on a vague indication at "power structure".

I just re-read my original post, and I think I was unclear as to my intent.  In the first paragraph, where I said that splitting the cooldowns would screw with game balance, I was talking about ME2, considering that much of this thread has been about using current classes and making them less strictly defined.  The idea itself, however, isn't a bad idea, and I'd prefer it for a new combat system in ME3, but for the ME2 skillsets, it'd be a bad idea for the reasons I listed earlier.

My second paragraph (the one sentence of it) was intended as support for the general idea in ME3, if they balanced the skills to the new cooldown system.

I thought my intent was clear, but as I said earlier, as I re-read it I could see where it might have been a bit confusing.

[Alamar2078]

I would agree that powers & classes balanced towards separate cooldowns would be cool [for me] ... I'm not sure others would agree but I would support the idea.

[brfritos]

khevan wrote...

brfritos wrote...

Leon Zweihander wrote...

*snip*
You're deluding yourself if you're thinking separate cooldowns will be back for ME3, at best they may separate biotic, tech, and combat cooldowns.

If they separate the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns it will make more sense and it will be more fun, at least.
*snip*

While seperating the tech, biotic and combat cooldowns would make sense from a realism perspective, it'd totally screw with game balance.  The Sentinel would become the total overpowered class, being able to cast a Tech Armor, and immediately be able to cast a biotic ability.  Tech armor is balanced by having a high cooldown, removing that balance would make Sentinel's entirely too powerful.

If Bioware implements an entirely new combat system for ME3, I'd prefer that they seperated the cooldowns, but not if they keep a similar power structure to ME2.

Then redo the combat system or tweak it in a way that the balance is preserved.
Simple.

Crouch was removed for this reason, since you can crouch a little before getting cover behind a crate and while in this mode you are protected from enemy fire and still can fire without exposing yourself.

But this is stupid, since the cover system became clunky. You have to touch someting for enter cover and if you want to jump something you have to enter cover again, then jump the obstacle.

[The Spamming Troll]

i hate that any idea can simply be looked past because someone thinks it would create imbalance in the game. your just not trying hard enough.



anyways, any hybrid class would benefit from separate cooldowns, not just the sentinel. you could just add longer cooldowns for hybrids, or give hybrids the lesser of the abilities to choose from.



the cover system isnt great. its functional, but not being able to croutch is like not being able to use your left foot in a soccer game. its a cover based shooter, but i cant use cover unless i "enter" it? i liked army of two because theres no such thing as "entering cover" in that game.

[Lumikki]

I would say classes exist because it's easyer to balance pre-define classes agaist game content than have free design classes. When people has free ability design they character it often created strong and gimped characters, based players ability make choises. More pre-define keeps the base more balance.

There is how ever one thing what I don't like and that's allow players go beoynd they class restriction when choosing addional powers. Example, non-bionic class can take bionic power.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 octobre 2010 - 08:50 .

[Alamar2078]

The strength of the class system is that different playthroughs with different classes can be a VERY different experience. Due to some tradeoffs if you go classless you would likely lose that distinctiveness in a points based system -- not to mention that everyone will try to build THE uber character.



[IMHO] As for why classes exist a large part of that is because that's been the way that RPGs have been for a long time so many people's first reaction is to think about what classes would be available.

[khevan]

*edit* Nevermind

Modifié par khevan, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:50 .

[khevan]

*edit*  Nevermind.

Modifié par khevan, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:50 .

[Angel-Shinkiro]

The Spamming Troll makes a good point and JaegerBane is a genius.

[The Spamming Troll]

Angel-Shinkiro wrote...

The Spamming Troll makes a good point and JaegerBane is a genius.

i feel exaclty the same way. jaegerbane, you should make a video game.