304 réponses à ce sujet

[cruc1al]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i thought i would have so much to say, but everyone on my side seems to be right were i need them. if we can forget about the elimination of classes, but focused more on the potential of classes then i think we could be heading in the right direction. the more i think about not playing ME3 as some form of biotic class really is starting to irk me. but the thing i find interesting is that those who think the adept works fine and shouldnt be inproved for ME3. one simple question i have for them......whats better A or B?

A. throw, warp, pull, singularity, shockwave, and maybe reave.

B. everything i already mentioned as well as barrier, slam, stasis, warp ammo, dominate.

i mean seriousely, you want less???

isnt an adept by defenition a class that shoould be using warp ammo, singularity, stasis, and reave???? why am i an adept, and not being an adept? adept is just the title that bioware gave the "class" that had option A.

I don't think that's seriously a good comparison. So many of the biotics overlap with each other in their use, so I wouldn't want to have all of them simultaneously. I would want to be able to choose from a broad range of abilities, but it would have to be sensible lore-wise; e.g., you can't develop mastery with Reave in the same time as you would develop mastery with Pull. Pull is just so much simpler as an ability. There would need to be some sort of difficulty hierarchy for the abilities. For example, you'd get to choose an ability when leveling up, and you'd be stuck with that ability for the rest of the game. More advanced abilities would be locked out until higher levels. You could spend points for new abilities or for improving in old abilities, and it should be simply impossible to become a master of every single biotic attainable.

[Acero Azul]

[quote]sinosleep wrote...

So that you can't create god classes that break the game like you can in Oblivion. [/quote

Fact!, but Oblivion is still amazing

[The Spamming Troll]

well your right. i wouldnt think making a level 1000000 character with master every-biotic-ability in the game would be an option. ofcorse there needs to be limitations, thats the obviouse part. the difficult part of that equation is limiting a class like the biotic, and global cooldowns do exactly that. also, i wouldnt make an adept with throw, slam, and pull, i would make and ADEPT with starting points in singulartiy, stasis, warp, and even warp ammo. and the gloriouse part about that, is that that setup very much makes my adept, MY ADEPT. 

even if you take my idea and apply it to ME2s structure, you have a slightly powerfull build then the normal adept, but youd have your preference of warp/reave or throw/pull/ slam, or taking barrier and warp ammo, or any of the possible options available to a a biotic, like an adept. go ahead an post me a level 30 adept with my idea and point out why you think its a bad idea. i dare you.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:03 .

[godlike13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

 i would make and ADEPT with starting points in singulartiy, stasis, warp, and even warp ammo. and the gloriouse part about that, is that that setup very much makes my adept, MY ADEPT. 

Um, u can already do that <_<. Just put points in singularity, stasis, and warp. Then bring Jack along, or bring whatever squad member that has the ammo power u think is optimal at the time. That's part of the point of the overall balance of the game, to use ur squad to make up for what u lack/want.

Modifié par godlike13, 01 octobre 2010 - 02:44 .

[Serillen]

I agree but disagree to some extent. The problem is the powers aren't all balanced so theres always going to be a really awesome power the majority takes (reave, singularity) and then theres going to be horrible powers (Shockwave and Barrier). Add to that there are powers that overlap to an extent (reave and warp, pull and singularity, throw and slam) and the net product is you have less choice than you think you do.

That being said, I prefer the ME 1 power listings with the ME2 style of level ups. IE one weaker power with a stronger power (generally) as an unlock, no triple unlocks and a power list of around 10 powers with the level up style going in increasing cost ranks with a 4th rank evolve.

[swn32]

I hate the fact that you need equal number of points to evolve awesome powers as well as the horrible powers. The horrible powers are even more useless if they arent evolved. Btw I dont consider Barrier to be a horrible power, its a great defensive power.

[The Spamming Troll]

godlike13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

 i would make and ADEPT with starting points in singulartiy, stasis, warp, and even warp ammo. and the gloriouse part about that, is that that setup very much makes my adept, MY ADEPT. 

Um, u can already do that <_<. Just put points in singularity, stasis, and warp. Then bring Jack along, or bring whatever squad member that has the ammo power u think is optimal at the time. That's part of the point of the overall balance of the game, to use ur squad to make up for what u lack/want.

you want me to fully rely on an ability i may or may not equire in the entire game? what i dont lack is boredom of classes. if your the kind of person that enjoys those tough choices between heavy or wide pull, so be it. id rather play an adept that could light up heavy warp ammo, throw out a singularity in the middle of some enemies, stasis a krogan, warp explode, dominate a softy to take enemy fire, use barrier, then reave the last enemy and watch him dance in a misery of death.

unless you like just warping and singularitying. maybe thats my problem, i expect ME3 to give me MORE.

[godlike13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

 i would make and ADEPT with starting points in singulartiy, stasis, warp, and even warp ammo. and the gloriouse part about that, is that that setup very much makes my adept, MY ADEPT. 

Um, u can already do that <_<. Just put points in singularity, stasis, and warp. Then bring Jack along, or bring whatever squad member that has the ammo power u think is optimal at the time. That's part of the point of the overall balance of the game, to use ur squad to make up for what u lack/want.

you want me to fully rely on an ability i may or may not equire in the entire game? what i dont lack is boredom of classes. if your the kind of person that enjoys those tough choices between heavy or wide pull, so be it. id rather play an adept that could light up heavy warp ammo, throw out a singularity in the middle of some enemies, stasis a krogan, warp explode, dominate a softy to take enemy fire, use barrier, then reave the last enemy and watch him dance in a misery of death.

unless you like just warping and singularitying. maybe thats my problem, i expect ME3 to give me MORE.

I don't "want" u to do anything, im just advising u to rely on ur squad, that's the point of having them. If u want Warp ammo but don't want to work for it, that's ur problem, but the fact is its there. U want "singularity, stasis, warp, and even warp ammo"? Guess what, u can have it.

Look i get u want to play a uber adept decked out with all ur favorite abilities to beat up all the enemies, but the game is suppose to challenge us, and force us to strategize. Balancing what we got, what we don't got, and what our squade gots. U want to expect ME3 to give "MORE", go ahead, im sure it will. But just because u don't appreciate the other powers or take advantage of ur squad, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either.

Modifié par godlike13, 01 octobre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Serillen wrote...

I agree but disagree to some extent. The problem is the powers aren't all balanced so theres always going to be a really awesome power the majority takes (reave, singularity) and then theres going to be horrible powers (Shockwave and Barrier).

Barrier is one of the best bonus powers around, esspecially for an Adept. Claiming Barrier to be bad implies Tech Armor to be horrible too though it makes Sentinels almost impossible to kill. Barrier is even better coz it doesn't require an animation (like Tech Armor or medkits) once activated - it's the ultimate defensive power and it turns Adept into a powerful CQC killing machine.

The Spamming Troll wrote...

you want me to fully rely on an ability i may or may not equire in the entire game? what i dont lack
is boredom of classes. if your the kind of person that enjoys those tough choices between heavy or wide pull, so be it. id rather play an adept that could light up heavy warp ammo, throw out a singularity in the middle of some enemies, stasis a krogan, warp explode, dominate a softy to take enemy fire, use barrier, then reave the last enemy and watch him dance in a misery of death.

unless you like just warping and singularitying. maybe thats my problem, i expect ME3 to give me MORE.

What you like for your Adept can't be done, not without changing game drastically. What's the point in having all those (biotic) powers available if you can only use one at a time?

To perform fast combos you'll need your squad; there are 3 powers to do this: 1) defense stripper 2) Pull / Singularity to ragdol 3) Warp finisher. You can argue to be able to use more biotic powers with Adept, but to use them effectively the global cooldown system must be removed. To balance things a bit this would be the end of squadies. I don't think that's a good idea.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 01 octobre 2010 - 08:38 .

[nelly21]

I must congratulate the op.



Five pages despite the name and obvious point of the post.



*slow dramatic clap*

[sinosleep]

nelly21, believe it or not the spamming troll isn't always a spamming troll, hence why he can get replies even if his posts may at times look spam or troll worthy. You never know if hes being serious or not and so people always reply. If he is indeed a spamming troll, he has a very good method by which to get replies.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 octobre 2010 - 08:11 .

[Serillen]

Barrier is gone in a few shots on insanity/hardcore and has a really long cooldown. Its ok for a before the fight power, but you're better off using pull or singularity to stop incoming fire. If it wasnt for the 12s base cooldown I'd completely agree but as it is Adepts are a power heavy class, you cant have something hogging your cooldown time. As for tech armor, its good because it does more than just boost shields. 
 Edit: for those reasons its my OPINION that its a horrible power.

Modifié par Serillen, 01 octobre 2010 - 09:20 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

Being able to customise would have been appreciated. Its not like Shepards type is ever mentioned, so they could have let us have pic'n'mix classes, then allow us to name ourselves much like TES



Would have meant less runs for me, as in for getting the achievements

[godlike13]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

Would have meant less runs for me, as in for getting the achievements

But i think more runs is kind of the point though

Modifié par godlike13, 01 octobre 2010 - 09:47 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

godlike13 wrote...

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

Would have meant less runs for me, as in for getting the achievements

But i think more runs is kind of the point though

Lol yeah but... i like the idea that Shepard is an amazing human being as he/she is, not messed about with in any way, so prefer soldier  

[The Spamming Troll]

godlike13 wrote...

I don't "want" u to do anything, im just advising u to rely on ur squad, that's the point of having them. If u want Warp ammo but don't want to work for it, that's ur problem, but the fact is its there. U want "singularity, stasis, warp, and even warp ammo"? Guess what, u can have it.

Look i get u want to play a uber adept decked out with all ur favorite abilities to beat up all the enemies, but the game is suppose to challenge us, and force us to strategize. Balancing what we got, what we don't got, and what our squade gots. U want to expect ME3 to give "MORE", go ahead, im sure it will. But just because u don't appreciate the other powers or take advantage of ur squad, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either.

nah, i dont think you get it. first off, i can gaurantee if you watched me play ME1 or ME2, your head would explode with awesomness. meaning i know how to play the game. but on the other hand you bring up a good point. not every player is a godlike13 or a spamming troll type caliber of player. most ME players are renters and probably dont even try a second play through. whos to say really but the important thing you brought up is the fact that theres adept players out there that arent even aware of warp ammo. who dont even know morinth exists(dominate), who didnt download lair of the shadow broker(stasis), and probably play 75% of the game with the friggin M3 predetor(puke)! 

anyways your sortof nit picking my complaint here. obviously, im aware of the fact that i cant use squadmates abilities if i so choose, just like i know i can hack my 360, or buy it for PC or simply not play it. im not looking for changes with those options. i would like to create a character labaled adetp, and be able to choose fom all the available options. id rather mix my biotics how i chose. wouldnt you atleast admit that having an option for someone that would rather play a pull-sentinel then a throw-sentinl. no? youd rather just take what your given?

im not looking for challeneg by limitation. if thats your idea of how a game should be made, then im glad you dont own bioware.

i dont have alot of motivation to change your way of thinking. if you like taking what your given, so be it.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

What you like for your Adept can't be
done, not without changing game drastically. What's the point in having
all those (biotic) powers available if you can only use one at a time?

this
is funny, you ask why i need to have all those biotics when i can only
use one at a time! thats the exact reason why it doesnt matter if i have
all those abilities. and dont assume that im referring to having a
character with master-every-biotic-ability. like i said previously there
needs to be limitaitions. global cooldowns are th only way you can
limit ability usage, unless they switched to a mana type pool thatd be
drained from ability use. global cooldowns should be removed, no doubt.


from
level 1 you start with singularity. so im spamming singularity as soon
as i open my eyes. theres no point in having throw or pull with an adept
if theres no reason to have reave or dominate.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 01 octobre 2010 - 11:39 .

[belwin]

Kronner wrote...

To keep things at least somewhat balanced.

^ what he said,

it was just be just plain unfair if i could biotic charge, stasis the sheilded engeneer, got into adrenaline mode, knock out 3 bad guys, hit the fourth with concussive shot then overload them into oblivion while they are in a pull field.

although. that does sound fun, maybe they need to put everything on it's own CD timer again.
xD

[godlike13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if you like taking what your given, so be it.

When what were given is a fun well balanced game that makes us use are noodle, then ya, i guess i do like taking what im given . That's part of the challenge .

Modifié par godlike13, 01 octobre 2010 - 11:55 .

[The Spamming Troll]

if i could retitle this thread i would.

weve moved on from a discusion on a a classless system to one based on the same classes presented in the first two instalations your familiar with, but now were debating the potential for said classes to be expanded.

would you like your adept to play as a pulling, singularitying, reaving, stasising and what the hell one point in warp ammoing.......or play as an adept with already been chosen for you? its like someone showed me a naked girl, then said i can only have her from the kneecaps down. not even a nipple.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:03 .

[The Spamming Troll]

godlike13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if you like taking what your given, so be it.

When what were given is a fun well balanced game that makes us use are noodle, then ya, i guess i do like taking what im given . That's part of the challenge .

you enjoy chalenge built around limitations. how is insanity not defined by limitaions, and thats how you want bioware to challenge you??? by saying "play our game on insanity, and itll feel just like gears of war." if you dont think bioware can present a challenge to their gamers with a sentinel that has pull instead of throw, then your obviously taking things way out of proportion. a level 30 adept with all the biotics at their disposal at basic, wouldnt be any more powerfull then one with 3 powers at max. is something so wrong with a vangaurd that doesnt have to invest in shockwave or an infiltrator that doesnt have to invest in disruptor ammo? i keep seeing oblivion getting mentioned here. i dont want an uber build, i want a build that isnt based on a few developers notion of what is or isnt a "sentinel"

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:07 .

[Ares Caesar]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if i could retitle this thread i would.

weve moved on from a discusion on a a classless system to one based on the same classes presented in the first two instalations your familiar with, but now were debating the potential for said classes to be explaned.

would you like your adept to play as a pulling, singularitying, reaving, stasising and what the hell one point in warp ammoing.......or play as an adept with already been chosen for you? its like someone showed me a naked girl, then said i can only have her from the kneecaps down. not even a nipple.

Personally, from the sounds of what you're talking about now (I read about 1/2 the entire thread), then you might as well just drop down to 3 classes alone.

Soldier- Weapons, and all weapon based specialties (give them tactical cloak too)
Biotic- All biotic powers available
Tech/Engineer- All tech powers available

Otherwise if you're basically talking about making ALL relevant powers available for each class, then you're really only making it 6 classes each with 1 gimmick individual power, and not much diversity beyond that.

The current 6 classes and LACK of powers really forces diversity and generally different playstyles.

I dont really like the idea of all things being available to certain classes.... really would make it much less reason to even try the others, the current division of 6 and the fact that powers ARE limited in availability makes each class play different enough that I've got 6 good excuses to play through a 30+ hour game, making Mass Effect 2 one of the BEST video game investments (especially in a day and age where most games are 6-20 hours max with NO variation in subsequent playthroughs)

Modifié par Ares Caesar, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:10 .

[godlike13]

Is something so wrong with a Vangaurd that does have to invest in Shockwave or an Infiltrator that does have to invest in disruptor ammo? Just because u want Pull on ur Sentinel instead of Throw so u can have it do its own warp explosions, or don't like Shockwave or Disruptor ammo doesn't mean that the developers did something wrong or lesser by trying to offer more varied and exclusive playstyles for each class. 

Modifié par godlike13, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:19 .

[The Spamming Troll]

nope, im in total agreement with you ares ceasar. i thought i was being clear, maybe becasue im smokeing a joint.

your not even trying here caeser. an infiltrator is half tech, half soldier. so give that infiltrator a limited choice of all the techs and a limited choice of all the soldier abilities. or make abilities in teirs and allow only pure classes to be able to obtain the uber powers. its an easy change, the options that present themselves are almost endless. i mean how much differnet are YOUR adepts?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 octobre 2010 - 12:44 .

[The Spamming Troll]

godlike13 wrote...
Just because u want Pull on ur Sentinel instead of Throw so u can have it do its own warp explosions, or don't like Shockwave or Disruptor ammo doesn't mean that the developers did something wrong or lesser by trying to offer more varied and exclusive playstyles for each class. 

actually, thats exactly what i think about it.

[Ares Caesar]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

nope, im in total agreement with you ares ceasar. i thought i was being clear, maybe becasue im smokeing a joint.

your not even trying here caeser. an infiltrator is half tech, half soldier. so give that infiltrator a limited choice of all the techs and a limited choice of all the soldier abilities. or make abilities in teirs and allow only pure classes to be able to obtain the uber powers. its an easy change, the options that present themselves are almost endless. i mean how much differnet are YOUR adepts?

Each class generally has a "best way" to play, and offering more powers doesnt change that, it just makes it more convoluted to figure out.

I understand you want access to all the powers in hopes of more "diverse" options, but that simply means there are lot of powers you just wont be using overall.

The only fair solution I think to your problem/criticism is this;

1) Start of game you select a class (same basic concept as now, soldier(all combat), vanguard(biotic,combat), engineer(tech), etc etc etc)
2) After selecting class, you are then allowed to pick ANY of the abilities within its classes range, up to say 4-6 total powers. The "Hybrids" would probably have to have a split.
3) Each class would still maintain its "gimmick" power, and passives with possibility of bonus power (though I'd rather remove the bonus power idea and just add an extra originial power slot selection)

That allows you to have whatever abilities you specifically feel are the best, while NOT overloading classes with a bunch of useless ones that really will overlap or be mostly weak simply because you dont prioritize.

It'd also maintain heavier diversity since each class would still be limited, but would allow you to decide what powers REALLY matter to you. Having to "choose" and "sacrifice" is half of what makes leveling up fun, because you have to start deciding what actually matters and what would just be superfluous.