304 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spamming Troll]

JaegerBane wrote...

Yeah. The idea of holding off on developing your main skills to boost your character was such a whacked-out concept that I honestly don't know what Bethesda were thinking when they made it.

this is the same way i feel about bioware and enemy protections. as much as id like my adepts to have more variety in ME3, id really like them to be able to use their abilities on all difficultiy levels. say what you want about it, but playing an adept on anything higher then veteran, is NOT playing an adept, atleast not my imterpretation of an adept.

to pull the argument even further in regards to classes and abilities within classes, why can i only push or pull someone? id like to think theres alot more i could do with 1000 newtons of force, like the ability "biotic skull crush."

did you see what  i just wrote there? biotic skull crush! imagin if bioware gave us THAT in ME3! ive got a boner.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:03 .

[godlike13]

Playing an Adept on anything higher then veteran, IS playing an adept. U just have to strip defenses to us some of the biotics, making it more challenging. Which is the point of higher difficulties.

Modifié par godlike13, 07 octobre 2010 - 12:15 .

[weedlink10]

sinosleep wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Apples and oranges.  Kinda hard to compare a set of predefined skills in a third person shooter/action game to a custom class in an open world role playing game.  The fact that you even tried to draw a comparison between ME2 and Oblivion is laughable.  Those two games are about as different as can be.

Contrary to what the rpg elitists would have you believe, ME 2 still counts as rpg. Not only that but the problems associated with classless systems seem to follow the games that use them regardless of genre. Oblivion and Champions online aren't the same thing either and yet they both have all the same create your own class problems. People find absurd combinations of powers that make the game a cake walk and then that's all you see.

whats your point i have found combinations with each of the classes in mass effect 1 & 2 that make the game a cake walk, i have also done the same with Dragon Age, Demon's Souls, Fallout 3, what you just said happens in every game not just RPG's people will always find the easiest way to do something, some trying to undermind other games because you think one is better.

[The Spamming Troll]

godlike13 wrote...

Playing an Adept on anything higher then veteran, IS playing an adept. U just have to strip defenses to us some of the biotics, making it more challenging. Which is the point of higher difficulties.

this is a tired argument. yes ALL an adept has to do in order to play an adept is strip defenses. enemy defenses are a lame excuse for a challenge. how did bioware make the game harder? they took the game away. its like if bioshock didnt have plasmids or jedis couldnt use the force, untill they use one ability on that enemy. itd be challenegine playing madden and not running the ball too, but thats not how the game is played. ME is abilities, whether tech, biotic, or boring soldier, ME revolves around its abilites. biowre should have made higher difficulties more challenging by facing more enemies, better enemies, enemies that use abilities on shepard and squad, enemies that flank, blah blah blah......but no you are just fine with enemies with fake layers of poop that stop you from doing those things that are the very reason your playin ME in the first place.

bah.

[godlike13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Playing an Adept on anything higher then veteran, IS playing an adept. U just have to strip defenses to us some of the biotics, making it more challenging. Which is the point of higher difficulties.

this is a tired argument. yes ALL an adept has to do in order to play an adept is strip defenses. enemy defenses are a lame excuse for a challenge. how did bioware make the game harder? they took the game away. its like if bioshock didnt have plasmids or jedis couldnt use the force, untill they use one ability on that enemy. itd be challenegine playing madden and not running the ball too, but thats not how the game is played. ME is abilities, whether tech, biotic, or boring soldier, ME revolves around its abilites. biowre should have made higher difficulties more challenging by facing more enemies, better enemies, enemies that use abilities on shepard and squad, enemies that flank, blah blah blah......but no you are just fine with enemies with fake layers of poop that stop you from doing those things that are the very reason your playin ME in the first place.

bah.

This is a tired argument. U just disregarding a argument on the sole basis as basically ur not happy about the answer. FACT IS, Adept can play as an Adept on anything higher then veteran. The higher difficulties just require u to strip the enemy defenses fist to use some of the biotic. If u don't like the challenge, the just don't play on the higher difficulties. Enemies having defenses don't stop us from doing those things, just requires us to strip, Warp and Warp bomb hint* hint*, first and use some of the biotics more strategically. Harder difficulties, make it harder. Which again, is the whole point.

Modifié par godlike13, 07 octobre 2010 - 02:41 .

[The Spamming Troll]

stripping enemies defenses is for soldiers, not adepts. when every enemy on screen has protections, theres absolutely no way your playing an "adept." your playing a gimped soldier, using squadmates abilities, or fireing your own weapons. playing insanity basically turns the game from imersively entertaining into only focusing on a blue, yellow, or purple health bar. once you get into the red, using anything other then your gun, isnt even worth it, im sure thats something you know. is enemy protections really the ONLY sort of way you want to be challenged in ME3 on insanity?



i dont like the challenge and ive learned to deal with it. my only option is to play veteran and not upgrade my health or weapons. it actually gives me just enough gratification, although i have no more challenge ahead of me other then turning on a setting that turns mass effect into gears of war.

[godlike13]

Ya, so a solider now throws warp and warp bombs to strip armor like toilet paper <_<...

Modifié par godlike13, 07 octobre 2010 - 03:32 .

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

stripping enemies defenses is for soldiers, not adepts. when every enemy on screen has protections, theres absolutely no way your playing an "adept." your playing a gimped soldier, using squadmates abilities, or fireing your own weapons.

Uh, ME2 is a shooter and in shooters you use ... guns maybe? I see it the other way around. Soldiers are handicapped Adepts, they can only use weapons while Adepts can use their biotics too.

playing insanity basically turns the game from imersively entertaining into only focusing on a blue, yellow, or purple health bar. once you get into the red, using anything other then your gun, isnt even worth it, im sure thats something you know. is enemy protections really the ONLY sort of way you want to be challenged in ME3 on insanity?

I sure hope Bioware doesn't listen to what you're proposing: No Challenge Whatsoever!

i dont like the challenge and ive learned to deal with it. my only option is to play veteran and not upgrade my health or weapons. it actually gives me just enough gratification, although i have no more challenge ahead of me other then turning on a setting that turns mass effect into gears of war.

What's the problem then? You like playing on Veteran coz you don't like to be challenged like some other folks out here. It's been said many times: Insanity is supposed to be hard, if you don't like it play an easier setting.

I have no problem with the Adept on Insanity and biotics still rule. If you watch some of the vids in my sig you would know it ain't that hard and enemies are flying around all the time; being Pulled, Thrown, locked in Singularity or Stasis field and Warped into oblivion. I don't like playing Veteran and below, way too easy. Fights are over without them ever getting started in the first place. Hell, even Insanity is too easy in my opinion.

There are some good ideas put forth in here; but all you do is keep wining about Adepts being unable to thrash everything withour breaking a sweat. All it takes is a little thought, using the right squadmates, powers and weapons will remove defenses very fast and then it's biotic playtime. Please post ideas how you think biotics should work in ME3, but without making those powers OP and thus break the game and kills all the fun.

[termokanden]

I think there is some truth to what he's saying. It's not the most imaginative way of building the highest difficulty. Maybe more aggressive enemies and larger numbers of them would increase the difficulty in a more meaningful way. It IS very much like Gears of War just increasing their health and damage in the extreme.



I like the challenge myself, but at the same time it doesn't feel right to me that super-soldier Shepard is 10 times weaker than every random pirate in the galaxy. I always hated this part about higher difficulties - part of the fun is having a powerful character, not so much the feeling that you have to beat an ogre with a toothpick.



I think, however, that ME2 was a massive improvement over ME1 when it comes to Insanity. In ME1, it was so boring I could never complete it. Every single enemy seemed to have Immunity. In ME2, at least if you use defense-destroying powers in a clever way, you can kill fairly quickly.



I completely disagree that adepts are not good on Insanity, by the way. They are kind of bad before Horizon, but after that it's pretty easy.



My main suggestion for increasing the difficulty without just scaling the enemies is to simply make give them better AI at higher difficulties. As it is now, most fights on insanity can be fought without leaving cover. This means it's absolutely trivial. A few fights such as Horizon and the Garrus recruitment shutters part stand out, because there you CAN'T just sit behind cover. Notice how they're much more difficult than the rest of the game?

[Bozorgmehr]

termokanden wrote...

I think there is some truth to what he's saying. It's not the most imaginative way of building the highest difficulty. Maybe more aggressive enemies and larger numbers of them would increase the difficulty in a more meaningful way. It IS very much like Gears of War just increasing their health and damage in the extreme.

I think, however, that ME2 was a massive improvement over ME1 when it
comes to Insanity. In ME1, it was so boring I could never complete it.
Every single enemy seemed to have Immunity. In ME2, at least if you use
defense-destroying powers in a clever way, you can kill fairly
quickly.

In-game description mentions increased enemy AI aggression though I never really noticed that and I prefer the ME2 defense system over the usual 'give enemies massive health and damage bonuses' approach. In contrast to ME1 where on Insanity it took ages before enemies went down, but no real challenge since they were hanging around somewhere in midair all the time, unable to fight back. I also hated to instant kills (Shep); combat has been hugely improved in ME2.

I like the challenge myself, but at the same time it doesn't feel right to me that super-soldier Shepard is 10 times weaker than every random pirate in the galaxy. I always hated this part about higher difficulties - part of the fun is having a powerful character, not so much the feeling that you have to beat an ogre with a toothpick.

Agreed, but I believe the ME2 system is great because of the defense system; enemies don't have absurd amounts of health, they die quickly making things better and more realistic. Defenses only add some complexity - you'll need different abilities to deal with them; thus improving tactics involved.

I completely disagree that adepts are not good on Insanity, by the way. They are kind of bad before Horizon, but after that it's pretty easy.

I found Stasis to be perfect (pre) Horizon; allowing aggressive gameplay and combined with Locust it ain't that hard. Things improve dramatically once you've got the CD upgrade and bonus weapon. An Adept NG+ is actually easier than a normal newgame, bonus weapon and level 4 powers really help here (I don't like NG+ much, it removes the leveling (=rpg) element from the game)

My main suggestion for increasing the difficulty without just scaling the enemies is to simply make give them better AI at higher difficulties. As it is now, most fights on insanity can be fought without leaving cover. This means it's absolutely trivial. A few fights such as Horizon and the Garrus recruitment shutters part stand out, because there you CAN'T just sit behind cover. Notice how they're much more difficult than the rest of the game?

I love those fights too. I'll hope ME3 has more such encounters. I don't like the 'get into a good cover spot and kill everything safely' - approach. More fights like Enyala's would be welcome, or the final IFF fight (not using CAIN). When enemies flank player aggressively things will become challenging, more tactical and more fun. If they add more enemies (don't think they will; ME is developed for 360 and I doubt hardware is capable of handeling more enemies without concessions in the visuals department) - would be great if Bioware did something like this for the PC version.

[Daforth]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

I agree with the system of powers in sub-groups. Take the Vanguard with Shockwave and Pull. First, I have to put points into Shockwave before I can even get Pull. I don't want Shockwave. Or Infiltrator with AI Hacking. I don't want that either. Better to give me the choice of two tech powers for an Infiltrator, and I'll choose Incinerate and Neural Shock.
To avoid being overpowered or to keep the classes a bit different from each other still, I'd say keep certain specific class powers off the table for other classes. Only an Engineer can pick Combat Drone or AI Hacking, a Sentinel or Infiltrator can't. Only an Adept can have Singularity or Stasis, the other biotic classes can't.

I think there is some merit in that, but personally, I prefer the slot idea.

Start with the class. Each class has a passive, a class power, and a selection of biotic, combat and tech slots, the individual numbers of which depend on the class.

So, for instance, a Soldier would have their passive, AR, and four slots for combat powers. An Adept would have passive, Singularity, and four biotic slots, Engineer has passive, Drone and four tech slots.

An Infiltrator would have passive, Cloak, two tech slots and two combat slots. Vanguard would have passive, Charge, two combat and two biotic slots, Sentinel would have passive, tech armour, two tech and two biotic slots.

Obviously, doing it this way would require the Adept to be rebalanced a bit, as the current Adept derives a lot of it's worth from biotic combos rather than what specific powers they have. But other than that, we'd have a situation where people choose their class based on what they want to do but customise it so it can play in the way they prefer it to.

This would be a better system than the one currently in place though I would remove bonus power completely (bonus powers can still be unlocked, but can only be used creating a new character), no power respec either. You'll have to use same powers/build throughout entire game.

More power combos are most welcome - ME2 is really lacking in this department.

I really second this idea (with Bozo's extension abotu bonus power), this is quite the way I would like to see the classes. But I disagree about the no-power-respec way. When you are familiar with the game and make a new char, you can choose your skills by knowledge how they works and performs. But when you start it very first, you may realize mid game that you would like another set more, so it would be bad to be forced to start over or stick with a set you don't like. Possibility of respec is usefull and it is not obligatory to use.

[Bozorgmehr]

The problem with the respec-option is the removal of the rpg element. One thing I like about (good) rpg games are the choices you have to make. You can't do and/or have all. Never liked ideas like the Oblivion Guilds system, where you could join all guilds instead of joining one (better rpg and added replay value when one has to make a choice); same with skills and weapons.

I prefer more options/choices, more ways to specialize at the cost of limiting available skills/weapons/etc. I believe this can and should be improved in ME3.

Another 'bad' thing about respec is it kind of feels like you're cheating; going on a Geth mission > respec - get Energy Drain, invest in AI Hacking etc. and it's easy. I prefer having to invest in AI Hacking if one wants to use it throughout the game, making synthetic heavy missions a joke, but power will be useless on other mission (like the Collector Missions for example). This will add to replay value and allows same class to be played completely different based on the skills you take.

I really like the number of powers each class can use in ME2; not too many, not too little. On top of that it allows playing without constant pausing and lots of micro management. Bioware did a great job on this; ME2 gameplay feels like a shooter plus lots of cool powers like a proper rpg. I love the fast paced action, much better than ME1 for example.

I think to system outlined above (by Pacifien and JaegerBane) would be great coz it keeps the different classes, but without the current limitations on 'extra' powers. Every class should have one or a few unique abilities setting them apart, but I can't see why an Infiltrator cannot use Overload if they like (tech skill), but can use ED? Or even Stasis (a biotic power, since when are Infiltrators part time biotics? - this doesn't make sense).

To round things up: I like to see:

- more specialization, customization and choices
- but without sacrificing the class system and unique feel of each class
- more build variety (powerful in one situation; weak in another
- this will add more value to squadmates and their specific powers to compensate Shep's

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 07 octobre 2010 - 02:06 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

stripping enemies defenses is for soldiers, not adepts. when every enemy on screen has protections, theres absolutely no way your playing an "adept." your playing a gimped soldier, using squadmates abilities, or fireing your own weapons.

Uh, ME2 is a shooter and in shooters you use ... guns maybe? I see it the other way around. Soldiers are handicapped Adepts, they can only use weapons while Adepts can use their biotics too.

playing insanity basically turns the game from imersively entertaining into only focusing on a blue, yellow, or purple health bar. once you get into the red, using anything other then your gun, isnt even worth it, im sure thats something you know. is enemy protections really the ONLY sort of way you want to be challenged in ME3 on insanity?

I sure hope Bioware doesn't listen to what you're proposing: No Challenge Whatsoever!

i dont like the challenge and ive learned to deal with it. my only option is to play veteran and not upgrade my health or weapons. it actually gives me just enough gratification, although i have no more challenge ahead of me other then turning on a setting that turns mass effect into gears of war.

What's the problem then? You like playing on Veteran coz you don't like to be challenged like some other folks out here. It's been said many times: Insanity is supposed to be hard, if you don't like it play an easier setting.

I have no problem with the Adept on Insanity and biotics still rule. If you watch some of the vids in my sig you would know it ain't that hard and enemies are flying around all the time; being Pulled, Thrown, locked in Singularity or Stasis field and Warped into oblivion. I don't like playing Veteran and below, way too easy. Fights are over without them ever getting started in the first place. Hell, even Insanity is too easy in my opinion.

There are some good ideas put forth in here; but all you do is keep wining about Adepts being unable to thrash everything withour breaking a sweat. All it takes is a little thought, using the right squadmates, powers and weapons will remove defenses very fast and then it's biotic playtime. Please post ideas how you think biotics should work in ME3, but without making those powers OP and thus break the game and kills all the fun.

ME2 is a shooter, but an adept is a class best suited for taking out enemies without the use of weapons. theonly important abilites on insanity are weapons and debuffs, and thats certainly not why im playing an adept in ME. you guys might like the story or the atmosphere, but using biotics is the biggest reason why i play ME, and playing insanity takes that reason away. soldiers are the best at stripping defneses, they have a weapon mod for every defense. soldiers are never gimped on any difficulty becasue their abilites all function the same.

i play veteran becasue i like biotics, not becasue i dont like to be challenged by playing my adept more like a soldier. insanity isnt HARD, it just doesnt make sense to me the way bioware created what you think is an acceptable challenge.

ive posted a hundred ideas in this thread, man its not hard to come up with a better idea for challenege then a fake layer of poop. how often do you actually use pull on an enemy thats in the red? its rare because 2 pistol hits will be enough. other then debuffs and signature skills, abilites on insanity are somewhat pointelss. i dont think i ever said i wanted to adept to be as powerfull as niftu cal and be a gret biotic wind and destroy everything with my mind. i just want to play an adept with stasis and warp ammo. period.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

To round things up: I like to see:

- more specialization, customization and choices
- but without sacrificing the class system and unique feel of each class
- more build variety (powerful in one situation; weak in another
- this will add more value to squadmates and their specific powers to compensate Shep's

you want all that but not an adept that can use stasis and warp ammo? your creating an argument with yourself here.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 octobre 2010 - 04:41 .

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
you want all that but not an adept that can use stasis and warp ammo? your creating an argument with yourself here.

If we're talking about future class systems (ME3), we need to consider how bonus powers will work.  In ME1, you unlocked bonus powers by essentially spamming a power or weapon all day.  In ME2, they're unlocked through loyalty missions.  In ME3, I don't know that the focus will be on gathering a squad and earning their trust, so we could have an entirely new system.

[sinosleep]

From the lead gameplay designer.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 octobre 2010 - 05:10 .

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

ME2 is a shooter, but an adept is a class best suited for taking out enemies without the use of weapons. theonly important abilites on insanity are weapons and debuffs, and thats certainly not why im playing an adept in ME. you guys might like the story or the atmosphere, but using biotics is the biggest reason why i play ME, and playing insanity takes that reason away. soldiers are the best at stripping defneses, they have a weapon mod for every defense. soldiers are never gimped on any difficulty becasue their abilites all function the same.

i play veteran becasue i like biotics, not becasue i dont like to be challenged by playing my adept more like a soldier. insanity isnt HARD, it just doesnt make sense to me the way bioware created what you think is an acceptable challenge.

If you consider Insanity easy why are you complaining then?

ive posted a hundred ideas in this thread, man its not hard to come up with a better idea for challenege then a fake layer of poop. how often do you actually use pull on an enemy thats in the red? its rare because 2 pistol hits will be enough. other then debuffs and signature skills, abilites on insanity are somewhat pointelss. i dont think i ever said i wanted to adept to be as powerfull as niftu cal and be a gret biotic wind and destroy everything with my mind. i just want to play an adept with stasis and warp ammo. period.

You've not posted that many ideas, you keep repeating yourself saying Adepts should become godlike thus breaking the game.

I'm a bit tired of the 'Soldier argument' - it's just BS. Soldier are nothing if you remove their weapons, they have no powers or abilities they can use on enemies (yeah they've got CS - )

Soldiers have the same problem playing Insanity, all their ammo powers are useless while enemy defenses are still up (no panic, freeze or overload effects); their main power (AR) boosts Soldiers strengths nothing else, no enemy will die because you use AR alone. With Adepts it's the opposite, they have no powers to boost their own abilities, instead they can use powers ON enemies and, if used right, they can do far more damage using biotics than with their weapons. (they don't need weapons at all - Soldiers are worthless once you take away their toys)

i dont think i ever said i wanted to adept to be as powerfull as niftu cal and be a gret biotic wind and destroy everything with my mind. i just want to play an adept with stasis and warp ammo. period.

My Adept uses Stasis and Warp Ammo (Jack's) whenever I like to.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

To round things up: I like to see:

- more specialization, customization and choices
- but without sacrificing the class system and unique feel of each class
- more build variety (powerful in one situation; weak in another
- this will add more value to squadmates and their specific powers to compensate Shep's

you want all that but not an adept that can use stasis and warp ammo? your creating an argument with yourself here.

You can use Stasis and Warp Ammo as it is and unlike your Uber-Adept proposal the above actually provides the things you like; you can pick your own powers (though not all and certainly no non-biotic powers concerning Adepts). But you can choose to Stasis and Reave if you like. I don't see anything in contradictory in the above only more rpg. I guess you won't like that, since you want super powers that break the game. I like more diverse classes, powerful in one situation; weak in another.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 07 octobre 2010 - 06:45 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

sinosleep wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Apples and oranges.  Kinda hard to compare a set of predefined skills in a third person shooter/action game to a custom class in an open world role playing game.  The fact that you even tried to draw a comparison between ME2 and Oblivion is laughable.  Those two games are about as different as can be.

Contrary to what the rpg elitists would have you believe, ME 2 still counts as rpg. Not only that but the problems associated with classless systems seem to follow the games that use them regardless of genre. Oblivion and Champions online aren't the same thing either and yet they both have all the same create your own class problems. People find absurd combinations of powers that make the game a cake walk and then that's all you see.

That's a symptom of poor game design that you'll also find in many class-based systems.

[sinosleep]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

That's a symptom of poor game design that you'll also find in many class-based systems.

It's much harder to balance both the enemies themselves as well as their AI when the designers have to try to account for hundreds or thousands of combinations than it is to balance enemies when that number is drastically reduced due to class systems.

[Permutation]

I personally would like to see a more dynamic class system. Adepts that can just wreak havoc on multiple enemies and tank with biotics instead of always waiting for a cooldown before the next Warp or Throw. Infiltrators that can perform melee assassinations when cloaked. Engineers that can, when close enough, physically jump on and sabotage heavy mechs, or just light mechs, regardless of shields or armor. Soldiers... well, maybe a headbutt. Vanguards with a chained charge and armor breaking. These are just a few ideas. I think each class needs more personality, when people play it they're like "that's just bad ass, I want to be a *insert class here*." My opinion, anyway.

[fegede]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The problem with the respec-option is the removal of the rpg element. One thing I like about (good) rpg games are the choices you have to make. You can't do and/or have all. Never liked ideas like the Oblivion Guilds system, where you could join all guilds instead of joining one (better rpg and added replay value when one has to make a choice); same with skills and weapons.

I prefer more options/choices, more ways to specialize at the cost of limiting available skills/weapons/etc. I believe this can and should be improved in ME3.

Another 'bad' thing about respec is it kind of feels like you're cheating; going on a Geth mission > respec - get Energy Drain, invest in AI Hacking etc. and it's easy. I prefer having to invest in AI Hacking if one wants to use it throughout the game, making synthetic heavy missions a joke, but power will be useless on other mission (like the Collector Missions for example). This will add to replay value and allows same class to be played completely different based on the skills you take.

I really like the number of powers each class can use in ME2; not too many, not too little. On top of that it allows playing without constant pausing and lots of micro management. Bioware did a great job on this; ME2 gameplay feels like a shooter plus lots of cool powers like a proper rpg. I love the fast paced action, much better than ME1 for example.

I think to system outlined above (by Pacifien and JaegerBane) would be great coz it keeps the different classes, but without the current limitations on 'extra' powers. Every class should have one or a few unique abilities setting them apart, but I can't see why an Infiltrator cannot use Overload if they like (tech skill), but can use ED? Or even Stasis (a biotic power, since when are Infiltrators part time biotics? - this doesn't make sense).

To round things up: I like to see:

- more specialization, customization and choices
- but without sacrificing the class system and unique feel of each class
- more build variety (powerful in one situation; weak in another
- this will add more value to squadmates and their specific powers to compensate Shep's

^ this.
I too would like to see some sort ''power slots'' of different kind (tech, combat and biotic) that one could fill with the desired powers when creating a new character. I'd put the respec option only in ng+, so you keep both the rpg choices on the fresh playtroughand the respecing to just chill around and try new builds when you are lvl 30.

[RandomPrecision2]

Can you Mod saves etc on XBOX360 or is that for PC only? If not, how to you Mod classes and saves on the XBox version?

[Killjoy Cutter]

sinosleep wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

That's a symptom of poor game design that you'll also find in many class-based systems.

It's much harder to balance both the enemies themselves as well as their AI when the designers have to try to account for hundreds or thousands of combinations than it is to balance enemies when that number is drastically reduced due to class systems.

That's why the abilities in a classless system have to be balanced in and of themselves, and multiple layers of stacking have to be avoided.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

ME2 is a shooter, but an adept is a class best suited for taking out enemies without the use of weapons. theonly important abilites on insanity are weapons and debuffs, and thats certainly not why im playing an adept in ME. you guys might like the story or the atmosphere, but using biotics is the biggest reason why i play ME, and playing insanity takes that reason away. soldiers are the best at stripping defneses, they have a weapon mod for every defense. soldiers are never gimped on any difficulty becasue their abilites all function the same.

i play veteran becasue i like biotics, not becasue i dont like to be challenged by playing my adept more like a soldier. insanity isnt HARD, it just doesnt make sense to me the way bioware created what you think is an acceptable challenge.

If you consider Insanity easy why are you complaining then?

ive posted a hundred ideas in this thread, man its not hard to come up with a better idea for challenege then a fake layer of poop. how often do you actually use pull on an enemy thats in the red? its rare because 2 pistol hits will be enough. other then debuffs and signature skills, abilites on insanity are somewhat pointelss. i dont think i ever said i wanted to adept to be as powerfull as niftu cal and be a gret biotic wind and destroy everything with my mind. i just want to play an adept with stasis and warp ammo. period.

You've not posted that many ideas, you keep repeating yourself saying Adepts should become godlike thus breaking the game.

I'm a bit tired of the 'Soldier argument' - it's just BS. Soldier are nothing if you remove their weapons, they have no powers or abilities they can use on enemies (yeah they've got CS - )

Soldiers have the same problem playing Insanity, all their ammo powers are useless while enemy defenses are still up (no panic, freeze or overload effects); their main power (AR) boosts Soldiers strengths nothing else, no enemy will die because you use AR alone. With Adepts it's the opposite, they have no powers to boost their own abilities, instead they can use powers ON enemies and, if used right, they can do far more damage using biotics than with their weapons. (they don't need weapons at all - Soldiers are worthless once you take away their toys)

i dont think i ever said i wanted to adept to be as powerfull as niftu cal and be a gret biotic wind and destroy everything with my mind. i just want to play an adept with stasis and warp ammo. period.

My Adept uses Stasis and Warp Ammo (Jack's) whenever I like to.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

To round things up: I like to see:

- more specialization, customization and choices
- but without sacrificing the class system and unique feel of each class
- more build variety (powerful in one situation; weak in another
- this will add more value to squadmates and their specific powers to compensate Shep's

you want all that but not an adept that can use stasis and warp ammo? your creating an argument with yourself here.

You can use Stasis and Warp Ammo as it is and unlike your Uber-Adept proposal the above actually provides the things you like; you can pick your own powers (though not all and certainly no non-biotic powers concerning Adepts). But you can choose to Stasis and Reave if you like. I don't see anything in contradictory in the above only more rpg. I guess you won't like that, since you want super powers that break the game. I like more diverse classes, powerful in one situation; weak in another.

my complaint has nothing to do with insanity being easy or not. after 8 pages of discusion, you think my complaint is about insanity being too hard? come on man, find yourself a decent rebuttle atleast.

this is a little frustrating. never once did i mention i wanted my adept to become godlike. not a once. are you here to simply be in an argument or do you have any thoughts about what were actually talking about here.

combining stasis and warp ammo is jsut an example. ofcorse when your with jack youll use warp ammo, just like your with legion youll use ai hacking. my complaint isnt with what my squadmates have. maybe i shopuld just say id like to use stasis, reave, and warp ammo, and dominate. now lets hear the resons why thats any better, or any worse for that matter, then the adept we have in ME2???

its like your stuck on the word uber or something. an adept that can i can create with the available biotics isnt any more powerfull then the one youd create. thers no issue with balance here, unless you compare ME to a game made 10 years ago thats only resemblance between the two is the word RPG.

sinosleep wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

That's a symptom of poor game design that you'll also find in many class-based systems.

It's
much harder to balance both the enemies themselves as well as their AI
when the designers have to try to account for hundreds or thousands of
combinations than it is to balance enemies when that number is
drastically reduced due to class systems.

you mean hundreds of thousands of combinations in ME? theres like 10 techs and 10 biotics and a handfull or weapon mods. there shouldnt be a concern of overwelmed gamers knowing what exactly throw or cloak would do. unless they are borzegmehr! ha keeding.

[swn32]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

You've not posted that many ideas, you keep repeating yourself saying Adepts should become godlike thus breaking the game.

I'm a bit tired of the 'Soldier argument' - it's just BS. Soldier are nothing if you remove their weapons, they have no powers or abilities they can use on enemies (yeah they've got CS - )

Soldiers have the same problem playing Insanity, all their ammo powers are useless while enemy defenses are still up (no panic, freeze or overload effects); their main power (AR) boosts Soldiers strengths nothing else, no enemy will die because you use AR alone. With Adepts it's the opposite, they have no powers to boost their own abilities, instead they can use powers ON enemies and, if used right, they can do far more damage using biotics than with their weapons. (they don't need weapons at all - Soldiers are worthless once you take away their toys)

Why would you take away their weapons? Their class power is meant to be used with weapons. Its not even a valid argument. Soldiers are useless if you take away their weapons, but they are godlike with their weapons. You can't just take their main advantage out of the equation and compare. Only the soldier can pack a Mattock/Viper/GPS setup and with it you are unstoppable. 

As far as I know, i dont think anyone playing on insanity would spend a single point on CS. Also inferno ammo does cause panic even with defenses on.

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

my complaint has nothing to do with insanity being easy or not. after 8 pages of discusion, you think my complaint is about insanity being too hard? come on man, find yourself a decent rebuttle atleast.

this is a little frustrating. never once did i mention i wanted my adept to become godlike. not a once. are you here to simply be in an argument or do you have any thoughts about what were actually talking about here.

Let me just quote something you posted on this page alone:

The Spamming Troll wrote...

this is the same way i feel about bioware and enemy protections. as much as id like my adepts to have more variety in ME3, id really like them to be able to use their abilities on all difficultiy levels. say what you want about it, but playing an adept on anything higher then veteran, is NOT playing an adept, atleast not my imterpretation of an adept.

to pull the argument even further in regards to classes and abilities within classes, why can i only push or pull someone? id like to think theres alot more i could do with 1000 newtons of force, like the ability "biotic skull crush."

did you see what  i just wrote there? biotic skull crush! imagin if bioware gave us THAT in ME3! ive got a boner.

- Biotics working on everything = godmode
- Biotic Skull Crush = godmode

You keep repeating you want biotics to work always; pretty game-breaking to me - Veteran and below is a joke; run around and blindly smashing power buttons and guess what ... everything is gone, you've won - this isn't a challenge and it's fine as it is for people who don't like a challenge or play the game only once. But we are talking about Insanity, the hardest difficulty level. It's supposed to be hard.

combining stasis and warp ammo is jsut an example. ofcorse when your with jack youll use warp ammo, just like your with legion youll use ai hacking. my complaint isnt with what my squadmates have. maybe i shopuld just say id like to use stasis, reave, and warp ammo, and dominate. now lets hear the resons why thats any better, or any worse for that matter, then the adept we have in ME2???

Isn't this exactly what I (and others) are proposing here: more customization but without removing the class sytem. Such a system would offer the opportunity to swap Pull and take Reave instead. Giving your Adept Reave instead of Pull makes your Adept weaker instead of stronger (but that's a different matter).

its like your stuck on the word uber or something. an adept that can i can create with the available biotics isnt any more powerfull then the one youd create. thers no issue with balance here, unless you compare ME to a game made 10 years ago thats only resemblance between the two is the word RPG.

Don't know what your point is. You and I are playing the same game so we can use the same skills, this has nothing to do with balance. Or maybe you would like a Spamming Troll Edition so you alone can use all sorts of super powers while others cannot

you mean hundreds of thousands of combinations in ME? theres like 10 techs and 10 biotics and a handfull or weapon mods. there shouldnt be a concern of overwelmed gamers knowing what exactly throw or cloak would do. unless they are borzegmehr! ha keeding.

More isn't better - I like the amount of powers available in ME2. You have no idea how Throw works (you consider it a useless power on Insanity) so maybe it's better to first try the powers you can use before suggesting you like to switch to different powers all together. This is actually one of the good things about the ME2 power / class system. Players are more or less forced to use powers tied to the class they've chosen - encouraging different tactics and approaches.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 08 octobre 2010 - 09:02 .