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[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Any thoughts on this wikipedia entry or did you just feel like sharing it with us?

Just putting some context into the discussion regarding treason and traitors.

Let's Put some more context, then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal

Betrayal (or backstabbing) is the breaking or violation of a presumptive social contract, trust, or confidence that produces moral and psychological conflict within a relationship amongst individuals, between organizations or between individuals and organizations. Often betrayal is the act of supporting a rival group, or it is a complete break from previously decided upon or presumed norms by one party from the others. Someone who betrays others is commonly called a traitor or betrayer. Betrayal is also a commonly used literary element and is often associated with or used as a plot twist.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason




Outside legal spheres, the word "traitor" may also be used to describe a person who betrays (or is accused of betraying) their own political party, nation, family, friends, ethnic group, team, religion, social class, or other group to which they may belong. Often, such accusations are controversial and disputed, as the person may not identify with the group of which they are a member, or may otherwise disagree with the group leaders making the charge. See, for example, race traitor.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

EDIT:  And given Pacifen's post on the next page from that one, I'll bow out after this. 

My overall opinion:  Anderson cannot commit treason against Cerberus, as they are not a government, and he is not a member.  He cannot betray Cerberus, as he was never a member of Cerberus.  Acting against Cerberus is not a betrayal of the Alliance, as the two are not one and the same.

Fine, run. Your overal opinion fails to even account for the meaning of this thread. Anderson betrayed the Alliance, not Cerberus, and not by acting against Cerberus, but by employing a foreign power to act on the internal affair of the Alliance without so much as consulting with any other Alliance official, inevitably divulging and exposing sensitive and classified information in the process. And his motivation was anything but prudent and responsible at the moment of making that decision.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 octobre 2010 - 01:56 .

[Arua Shepard]

So Anderson to Cerberus in ME 3???



Also in Retribution it said Anderson was tired of his political desk work, so he eventually quit... What role will he play in ME 3?

[eldav]

You know what, it would be great if in ME3 humankind would be kicked out from the concilraces due to a weak leader (Anderson) or getting stronger Concil with Alliance at its lead (Udina)

After all, our desicions should greatly infulence ME3.

[Barquiel]

eldav wrote...

You know what, it would be great if in ME3 humankind would be kicked out from the concilraces due to a weak leader (Anderson) or getting stronger Concil with Alliance at its lead (Udina)
After all, our desicions should greatly infulence ME3.

What makes you think that Udina is a good councilor? He was a terrible ambassador.

[Zulu_DFA]

Barquiel wrote...

eldav wrote...

You know what, it would be great if in ME3 humankind would be kicked out from the concilraces due to a weak leader (Anderson) or getting stronger Concil with Alliance at its lead (Udina)
After all, our desicions should greatly infulence ME3.

What makes you think that Udina is a good councilor? He was a terrible ambassador.

How so? He was the ambassador that put a Human he selected from a pool of candidates into the Spectres. Udina was the best ambassador ever!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 octobre 2010 - 02:20 .

[Barquiel]

Well, "I'm sick of this council and its anti-human BS" isn't exactly diplomatic (and Shep wouldn't be a spectre without Saren's betrayel).

Udina + a human council could work
Udina + the orginal council...I doubt he accomplishes anything

[Zulu_DFA]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, "I'm sick of this council and its anti-human BS" isn't exactly diplomatic

Well, putting up with someone's BS is diplomatic. But when the BS is anti-you, you'll earn only scorn if you stay diplomatic.

[jbblue05]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, "I'm sick of this council and its anti-human BS" isn't exactly diplomatic (and Shep wouldn't be a spectre without Saren's betrayel).

Udina + a human council could work
Udina + the orginal council...I doubt he accomplishes anything

The original council would prefer Anderson because he's naive about politics, easy to walk over and manipulate
.
The OC didn't like Udina because he knows how to play politics, never backs down, and is very charismatic.

Anderson is a tool for the Council
Udina is a Councilor on the Council

[Whatever42]

Remember when you arrive to see Ambassador Anderson - the council specifically suggests that Udina be there. I don't think they have much faith in Anderson.

[Barquiel]

Anderson isn't a political mastermind, that's true.

But I am quite sure that the original council always outvotes Udina and his confrontation course. I think Anderson had more chances to get the salaraian/asari vote. The turian is probably a  hopeless cause.

Modifié par Barquiel, 01 octobre 2010 - 03:36 .

[mosor]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, "I'm sick of this council and its anti-human BS" isn't exactly diplomatic (and Shep wouldn't be a spectre without Saren's betrayel).

Udina + a human council could work
Udina + the orginal council...I doubt he accomplishes anything

I'm an Udina fan, and almost always chose him for councilor, but I have to say Udina plays hardball to the point where the other aliens get frustrated with him. I believe I heard on the radio that a turian diplomat calls him a diplomatic incident waiting to happen.

He redeems himself with his war mongering, arm chair general ways though. He doesn't take crap from anti-human protestors and I like his praise for the N7 marines who destroy the batarian solar array. Military vigiliance is needed with the reapers coming!

Modifié par mosor, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:54 .

[Barquiel]

hmm...I understand why people like TIM (if you think human dominance is a great idea^_^). But Udina?
At least TIM supports Shepard and takes the reaper threat seriously. Udina on the other hand is a self serving weasel...and betrays Shep.

[mosor]

Barquiel wrote...

hmm...I understand why people like TIM (if you think human dominance is a great idea^_^). But Udina?
At least TIM supports Shepard and takes the reaper threat seriously. Udina on the other hand is a self serving weasel...and betrays Shep.

It's more about cutting ties to the council for me. My Shepard likes Anderson, and retiring a seasoned soldier to a life of political BS doesn't seem humane.  See I do have a heart after all!

Modifié par mosor, 01 octobre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Barquiel wrote...

hmm...I understand why people like TIM (if you think human dominance is a great idea^_^). But Udina?
At least TIM supports Shepard and takes the reaper threat seriously. Udina on the other hand is a self serving weasel...and betrays Shep.

Udina did not betray Shepard. He actually did Shepard a favor by telling to STFU before he could talk himself into a bigger trouble with the Council.

[Arijharn]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

hmm...I understand why people like TIM (if you think human dominance is a great idea^_^). But Udina?
At least TIM supports Shepard and takes the reaper threat seriously. Udina on the other hand is a self serving weasel...and betrays Shep.

Udina did not betray Shepard. He actually did Shepard a favor by telling to STFU before he could talk himself into a bigger trouble with the Council.

I don't buy that, there's a difference between saying 'STFU' and actively prohibiting a Spectre from doing his job. He could have just said: "Here, sit down and chillax a bit, you'll feel better." but he also grounds the Normandy. He didn't say: "Oh btw, I've grounded it, but security might be a little lax at about this time."

Udina screwed with me for what he saw as the greater good I'll grant him that, but it was terribly misplaced because he didn't even attempt to hear me out... and he also knew that grounding the Normandy was basically interferring with a Spectre's authority because he also knew that the Normandy was the only vessel that could safely (and more to the point; discreetly) approach Ilos.

[Arijharn]

I'm not talking about them treating me as a protagonist, I'm talking about them allowing me to exercise 'due process' in investigating my suspicions (they hired me on the basis I can be discreet anyway) because we are, as Spectre's, supposed to have a degree of freedom.

[MassEffect762]

Well I just got spoiled. Wee!



Meh, back to work.