343 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

If he had much else he wouldnt need to smooth talk and pay Aria into saving his drunken seated arse.

He doesnt have enough of a military force to stage an operation.

At this point, he should put everything he has into studying the Klengadon cannon, Grayson data and, if you gave it to him, The Collector Base and then turn over any useful information to the Alliance.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Shandepared wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
What, for damaging an organization like Cerberus?  

Have you paid any attention to the thread, did you read the OP's post?

Anderson didn't just hurt Cerberus, he hurt the Alliance, politically.

Yeah, I read the thread, every post. 

I also just finished a playthrough of ME1.   I linked all the Mass Effect Wikia pages for Cerberus-related missions and content in ME1 in a post for another thread to remind people of just what Cerberus is really like -- do I need to do the same here? 

Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are unpleasant things, but sometimes you have to go through nasty treatments to get rid of cancer, and Cerberus is a festering tumor in the guts of humanity.

[anmiro]

Anderson received a massive amount of intel on Cerberus. The problem was that the Alliance was infested with Cerberus agents and he couldn't take any action without alerting TIM. So, he took the information to the Turians, who by the way, are our Allies. By trusting the information to the Turians, Anderson not only took Cerberus by surprise, he also showed the Turians that not all humans are terrorists.

You may be loyal to Cerberus and the Illusive Man, but Anderson is not. The Illusive Man wants humanity to rule the galaxy and he's not afraid to take it by force. Anderson has always worked to earn humanities place in the galactic community. Its clear that your more loyal to the The Illusive Man than you are to Anderson, to which I say, it is you that has betrayed him.

[Asheer_Khan]

Shandepared wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are unpleasant things, but sometimes you have to go through nasty treatments to get rid of cancer, and Cerberus is a festering tumor in the guts of humanity.

That "tumor" just saved the human race and by extension the galaxy. Meanwhile the Alliance is still blissfully unaware.

What?

Harby and co are still coming and in matter of fact all what Shepard do was stall thier effort.

But giving already cerberus some credits for savig galxy is a little too early <_<.

[anmiro]

Dave of Canada wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Councilor. And if the Alliance interprets his actions as betrayal I doubt they'll let him be Captain.

Where does it say that Councilor Anderson quit? In the book, he's Admiral with Udina as Councilor. Anderson essentially quits the Alliance when he becomes Councilor, meaning he wouldn't have the Admiral title.

Your both wrong, the author was very careful never to call Anderson or Udina Councilor. All you know is that they are both working on the Citadel. One is Ambassador and one is Councilor but its up to the reader to make the distinction based on their choices in the game. Either way the story still works. After he sanctions the Turian raids on Cerberus, he steps down from his position on the Citadel to avoid being investigated by Udina and returns to his duties as an Admiral in the Alliance, which is what he wanted anyway. 

"Actually, I resigned my post." Anderson said. "Udina was threatening to launch some massive investigation into what he called my 'inappropriate diplomatic relations' with the Turians. The Alliance brass was going to put me on administrative leave until it was all sorted out, so I told Udina to cram his investigation up his ass and I quit."

p.168-169

Modifié par anmiro, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[JaegerBane]

Shandepared wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are unpleasant things, but sometimes you have to go through nasty treatments to get rid of cancer, and Cerberus is a festering tumor in the guts of humanity.

That "tumor" just saved the human race and by extension the galaxy. Meanwhile the Alliance is still blissfully unaware.

'Saviour' and 'Tumor' are both extreme interpretations of what Cerberus is. In reality Cerberus are a symptom of the Alliance's bueracratic and poltical problems - The Alliance is supposed to look out for, defend and promote humanity. A lot of Cerberus personnel make it clear the only reason they're in Cerberus is because the Alliance is dragging it's heels over it's responsibilities.

On the other hand, this doesn't excuse TIM's extreme viewpoints of human domination and progress at any cost, as they cause more problems then they solve. Indeed, Cerberus's reputation alone is actually a barrier to their mission, as their reckless operations have made many enemies that they didn't need.

[jbblue05]

AntiChri5 wrote...

If he had much else he wouldnt need to smooth talk and pay Aria into saving his drunken seated arse.
He doesnt have enough of a military force to stage an operation.
At this point, he should put everything he has into studying the Klengadon cannon, Grayson data and, if you gave it to him, The Collector Base and then turn over any useful information to the Alliance.

Cerberus is Humanity and Cerberus is working with the Alliance.
Too bad Anderson got some of his contacts in the Alliance arrested.
Do you expect TIM can trust the Alliance anymore every contact he has in the Alliance could be a liability now.
This will only make Cerberus more cautious and keep to itself besides sharing the intel with the Alliance

[jbblue05]

anmiro wrote...

Anderson received a massive amount of intel on Cerberus. The problem was that the Alliance was infested with Cerberus agents and he couldn't take any action without alerting TIM. So, he took the information to the Turians, who by the way, are our Allies. By trusting the information to the Turians, Anderson not only took Cerberus by surprise, he also showed the Turians that not all humans are terrorists.

You may be loyal to Cerberus and the Illusive Man, but Anderson is not. The Illusive Man wants humanity to rule the galaxy and he's not afraid to take it by force. Anderson has always worked to earn humanities place in the galactic community. Its clear that your more loyal to the The Illusive Man than you are to Anderson, to which I say, it is you that has betrayed him.

The Turians aren't allies they are rivals. If you saved the Council the Turians make sure they have a larger military presence then the Alliance. If you let the council die the turians and the Alliance are in a cold war.

Anderson showed the Turians the Alliance can't be trusted but Anderson can.  The Alliance claiming Cerberus is an rogue anti-alien organization gain them favor with the Council.  Now the Council will find out the Alliance is lying because Cerberus and the Alliance are too intertwined.


Nobody betrayed Anderson  Anderson betrayed the Alliaance shifting guilt to Shepard makes no sense

[mopotter]

Lvl20DM wrote...

The "canonizing" of Udina as Councillor is a typo, I think. The author goes out of his way to avoid mentioning titles except in one sentence.
I wouldn't characterize Anderson's actions as a betrayal. The Alliance might be angry, but they can strike a blow against Cerberus without directly involving themselves. I think that Cerberus has been hurt by this, but I'm sure they still have many powerful backers and cells out there. A theme if the story was that TIM's desire for vengeance got the better of him.
I'm curious if they are setting Anderson and Kahlee Sanders up as crewmember or squadmates.

I agree.  I think that sentence just got missed when they proofed it.   And I think that the Alliance/Udina will find a way to spin it so it they look like they were a part of it.  I think it's one of the things governments have public relation people for .  

i got the idea TIM wasn't really worried about the loses.  Just a slight setback.  

I like Anderson, glad to see he finally is getting together with Kahlee and I do hope they has a larger part in ME3 or dlc or even another book.   

[anmiro]

jbblue05 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

If he had much else he wouldnt need to smooth talk and pay Aria into saving his drunken seated arse.
He doesnt have enough of a military force to stage an operation.
At this point, he should put everything he has into studying the Klengadon cannon, Grayson data and, if you gave it to him, The Collector Base and then turn over any useful information to the Alliance.

Cerberus is Humanity and Cerberus is working with the Alliance.
Too bad Anderson got some of his contacts in the Alliance arrested.
Do you expect TIM can trust the Alliance anymore every contact he has in the Alliance could be a liability now.
This will only make Cerberus more cautious and keep to itself besides sharing the intel with the Alliance

Cerberus is not humanity. Cerberus is a very small group of humanity.

Cerberus may have gotten is start as a legitimate part of the Alliance, but that time has long past. 

Anderson is working to strengthen the Alliances relationship with all the Council races (as is Paragon Shepard) and the mere existence of Cerberus undermines that effort. 

Now that Liara is in charge of the Shadow Brokers network, who cares about Cerberus's intel. 

Modifié par anmiro, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:37 .

[jbblue05]

anmiro wrote...

Cerberus is not humanity. Cerberus is a very small group of humanity.

Cerberus may have gotten is start as a legitimate part of the Alliance, but that time has long past. 

Anderson is working to strengthen the Alliances relationship with all the Council races (as is Paragon Shepard) and the mere existence of Cerberus undermines that effort. 

Now that Liara is in charge of the Shadow Brokers network, who cares about Cerberus's intel. 

The Alliance represents Humanity and Cerberus and the Alliance are intertwined.

Are you really that naive you actually believe Anderson's actions are going to improve relation with the Council and the Alliance. You really believe their is no possible way this is going to blow up in Anderson and the Alliance face.  In Retribution the Alliance is pissed off.  So I wouldn't say things are going smoothly

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think if they are seriously going to canonize Anderson getting then quitting the Counselor job in the actual gameplay of ME 3, then they might as well do that for all the choices.



Second, Cerberus is a terrorist organization. Letting the Turians destroy them is better for the Alliance.

[GodWood]

I get the feeling some people can't see past the "Cerberus is bad yo" mentality.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Shandepared wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Chemotherapy and radiation therapy are unpleasant things, but sometimes you have to go through nasty treatments to get rid of cancer, and Cerberus is a festering tumor in the guts of humanity.

That "tumor" just saved the human race and by extension the galaxy. Meanwhile the Alliance is still blissfully unaware.

If TIM has evidence for the Reapers being involved, he could have leaked it to the Alliance, to the Council, to the media, to everyone and anyone.  Instead, he does everything he can to make sure that CERBERUS AND TIM are the ones in charge of saving the galaxy. 

All the while manipulating Shep and giving him half of the information.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 29 septembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbblue05 wrote...

Cerberus is Humanity

OK, Timmy. 

[anmiro]

jbblue05 wrote...

anmiro wrote...

Cerberus is not humanity. Cerberus is a very small group of humanity.

Cerberus may have gotten is start as a legitimate part of the Alliance, but that time has long past. 

Anderson is working to strengthen the Alliances relationship with all the Council races (as is Paragon Shepard) and the mere existence of Cerberus undermines that effort. 

Now that Liara is in charge of the Shadow Brokers network, who cares about Cerberus's intel. 

The Alliance represents Humanity and Cerberus and the Alliance are intertwined.

Are you really that naive you actually believe Anderson's actions are going to improve relation with the Council and the Alliance. You really believe their is no possible way this is going to blow up in Anderson and the Alliance face.  In Retribution the Alliance is pissed off.  So I wouldn't say things are going smoothly

You have missed my point entirely. The question is not right or wrong. The question is are you loyal to the Illusive Man or to David Anderson. These two characters have apposing ideals, it can't be both. Whether or not players have chosen the path of Renegade, it doesn't change the fact that Anderson is a paragon. Unlike the Illusive Man, he doesn't see the council races as our enemies. As a paragon, neither do I. I feel no sense of loyalty to Cerberus or the Illusive Man. So do I see his actions as a betrayal, absolutely not. 

If your loyal to the Illusive Man and have sided with Cerberus than Anderson is not your friend and owes you no loyalty. So its still no betrayal.

It is not naive to think that their can be an alliance with Turians or that a man in Anderson's position, or Shepard's for that matter, could go a long way towards strengthening that alliance.

The Human Alliance represents humanity as a whole, Cerberus represents a small minority of humans. While Cerberus may have some legitimate concerns about the alien races, its actions as a terrorist organization has forfeited its voice in the Galactic community. 

As for the Alliance being "pissed off", you are once again basing your argument on imaginary information and your own preconceptions. At no point in Retribution do we hear how the Alliance has interpreted Anderson's actions, all that is said is that Anderson stepped down to avoid Udina's investigation and that he has retained his rank as an Admiral in the Alliance military. Now you can take that anyway you want, but it seems to me that if the Alliance was that "pissed off", he would no longer be an Admiral.

[zeypher]

and evidence would be useless. i mean come on a frikin reaper blew up over their heads in ME1 and still do not believe it

[Asheer_Khan]

Just out of curiosity... IF cerberus is humanity then who resides on earth then?



And no cerberus is NOT humanity and NEVER will be... no matter how many psycho-child-tantrums timmy will throw...

[Killjoy Cutter]

To the last, my Sheps are using TIM to do what must be done, all the while waiting for the first chance to break away and take everything they can with them. TIM doesn't deserve one iota of loyalty.

[jbblue05]

anmiro wrote...



You have missed my point entirely. The question is not right or wrong. The question is are you loyal to the Illusive Man or to David Anderson. These two characters have apposing ideals, it can't be both. Whether or not players have chosen the path of Renegade, it doesn't change the fact that Anderson is a paragon. Unlike the Illusive Man, he doesn't see the council races as our enemies. As a paragon, neither do I. I feel no sense of loyalty to Cerberus or the Illusive Man. So do I see his actions as a betrayal, absolutely not. 

If your loyal to the Illusive Man and have sided with Cerberus than Anderson is not your friend and owes you no loyalty. So its still no betrayal.

It is not naive to think that their can be an alliance with Turians or that a man in Anderson's position, or Shepard's for that matter, could go a long way towards strengthening that alliance.

The Human Alliance represents humanity as a whole, Cerberus represents a small minority of humans. While Cerberus may have some legitimate concerns about the alien races, its actions as a terrorist organization has forfeited its voice in the Galactic community. 

As for the Alliance being "pissed off", you are once again basing your argument on imaginary information and your own preconceptions. At no point in Retribution do we hear how the Alliance has interpreted Anderson's actions, all that is said is that Anderson stepped down to avoid Udina's investigation and that he has retained his rank as an Admiral in the Alliance military. Now you can take that anyway you want, but it seems to me that if the Alliance was that "pissed off", he would no longer be an Admiral.

Its not about if Shepard is loyal to Anderson or Cerberus its about the fate of the Alliance because of Anderson's actions
What does Shepard and Anderson's relationship have to do with this?

You need to re-read Retribution  Ambassaador Orinia is meeting with Human diplomats to by time for the turians investigation and avoid a political sh!tstorm.

Anderson stepped down before his investigation into Cerberus
What the hell are you talking about?

[jbblue05]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Just out of curiosity... IF cerberus is humanity then who resides on earth then?

And no cerberus is NOT humanity and NEVER will be... no matter how many psycho-child-tantrums timmy will throw...

The Alliance represents Humanity
And Cerberus and the Alliance are intertwined that's a fact

Saying their not is just hatred of Cerberus

[NKKKK]

Do not take Retribution as the bible people, if your Anderson is still councilor, he's still councilor. Drew has little relevance to Mass Effect anymore.

[wizardryforever]

Shandepared wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

The more people can tell the difference between the Alliance and Cerberus, the better.

That isn't how politics works.

What have you been smoking?  That's exactly how politics works.  Image is everything in politics.  The Alliance is not Cerberus, it has to be the public face of humanity to the rest of the galaxy.  If the galaxy at large thought that the Alliance was supporting, condoning, or turning a blind eye to Cerberus activities, it would not take long for them to equate the two.  By exposing and imprisoning Cerberus operatives in the Alliance, Anderson saves face in the long term by working with the Turians (which we still have some bad blood with), and for exposing Alliance high-ups.  People will not be able to say that the Alliance is Cerberus any longer, at least not with much credibility.