brfritos wrote...
Mecha Tengu wrote...
and what exactly will media exposure of femshep accomplish? It has been statistically and scientifically proven that most women do not play video games.
It would be like trying to publicly market lipstick for men
Tell me you're beign sarcastic too, please...
how bout research?idoless24 wrote...
I probably wouldn't have played the game if I knew you couldn't be a female..once I found out you could play as one then I rented it and finally bought it.
There needs to be some kind of emphasis on the fact that you can play as a female..
Mecha Tengu wrote...
brfritos wrote...
Mecha Tengu wrote...
and what exactly will media exposure of femshep accomplish? It has been statistically and scientifically proven that most women do not play video games.
It would be like trying to publicly market lipstick for men
Tell me you're beign sarcastic too, please...
no I'm not.
tell me how marketing femshep will help
brfritos wrote...
Mecha Tengu wrote...
brfritos wrote...
Mecha Tengu wrote...
and what exactly will media exposure of femshep accomplish? It has been statistically and scientifically proven that most women do not play video games.
It would be like trying to publicly market lipstick for men
Tell me you're beign sarcastic too, please...
no I'm not.
tell me how marketing femshep will help
I'm not questioning the femShep marketing, I think the discution is ridiculous, but woman play A LOT of games.
Take The Sims or World of Goo, for example.
Yes, they want different subjects and they think different when becoming to games, but they play alot of games today.
In the past this was correct, games were developted by mens for mens, but this is changing.
Modifié par Pacifien, 29 septembre 2010 - 10:32 .
Guest_Flies_by_Handles_*
Temper_Graniteskul wrote...
You're probably not far off. Librarians and writers who deal with young adult fiction have this problem - girls will read anything they're interested in, even if it has a male protagonist, and can still find ways to identify with that protagonist; in part, because there weren't a lot of female protagonists for a long time, particularly in the sci-fi and fantasy genres, but also because they're never given the idea that they shouldn't. Being able to identify with a male is never presented as a bad thing, even if you're female. Female protagonists are good, too, but having a boy or man at the centre won't generally turn them off reading something.Flies_by_Handles wrote...
This begs the questions of why so much attention was given to a default male Shepard. Why not Jane Shepard instead? Unlike yourself, are most male gamers incapable of playing a female character in a strong role?
Boys, on the other hand, seem to have real difficulty identifying with a female protagonist, will resist doing so, and are never expected to have to do so. There are a large number of people out there who would rather cater to boys wanting to read about boys than do what they did with the girls: namely, tell them to find a story they like and read it, even if they have to find commonalities with the protagonist other than their sex (motivations, background, ambitions,etc.). Being willing and able to identify with a female character is specifically treated as something males should never have to do, and is viewed as undesirable. Hell, look at the reasons boys and men give for playing a female character in a video game - they (usually) say they want to look at a nice ass, not play a badass war hero space marine who happens to be a woman.
IRL = In Real LifeNuma-Fai wrote...
When was the last time you saw IRL a female MARINE?
What country (other than Isreal) puts women in front line combat positions?
Yes it's a GAME, but it's roots are buried deep in real life, "Looks very lifelike, smells correct too."
I cannot believe somebody has posted this. I don't know what IRL is, but
a- It is true there more men soldiers than women. It is changing. Must I remember women can vote less than a hundred years? Hey, we're working on that. About front line I don't know what to say, I honestly have no idea of military real life.
b- Exactly: IT IS A GAME. That's why everybody must feel represented. Please, don't make talk once again about the roots of patriarchalism. Please, don't. It bores me.
c- Well, I buy this kind of stuff since I was 12 years old, and I am not in my early twenties. I quite satisfied if I compare that Jedi Outcast of 1998? with the videogames I can purchase nowadays, but "quite satisfied" does not mean it could not be improved. Sometimes (always, ahem) I feel women players are not listened at all by the videogames companies. They must learn that we are raised in the same society than our male mates and we want very similar things, as I say we are a huge part of market, so they satisfy us (too)!
Modifié par JockBuster, 29 septembre 2010 - 11:30 .
JockBuster wrote...
IRL = In Real LifeNuma-Fai wrote...
When was the last time you saw IRL a female MARINE?
What country (other than Isreal) puts women in front line combat positions?
Yes it's a GAME, but it's roots are buried deep in real life, "Looks very lifelike, smells correct too."
I cannot believe somebody has posted this. I don't know what IRL is, but
a- It is true there more men soldiers than women. It is changing. Must I remember women can vote less than a hundred years? Hey, we're working on that. About front line I don't know what to say, I honestly have no idea of military real life.
b- Exactly: IT IS A GAME. That's why everybody must feel represented. Please, don't make talk once again about the roots of patriarchalism. Please, don't. It bores me.
c- Well, I buy this kind of stuff since I was 12 years old, and I am not in my early twenties. I quite satisfied if I compare that Jedi Outcast of 1998? with the videogames I can purchase nowadays, but "quite satisfied" does not mean it could not be improved. Sometimes (always, ahem) I feel women players are not listened at all by the videogames companies. They must learn that we are raised in the same society than our male mates and we want very similar things, as I say we are a huge part of market, so they satisfy us (too)!
a- Women serving in uniform versus women in Combat are NOT the same thing. Most militaries do not allow for women in active combat, they may serve near the combat operational area but not usually in active combat (ie shooting at people).
b- If you're bored so some place else.
c- ok, take it up with the Video Game makers, don't take it out on me. I've waited a LONG time for video games to develop from cartoon characters to something more lifelike, much longer than you've been living on this planet.
c- ok, take it up with the Video Game makers, don't take it out on me. I've waited a LONG time for video games to develop from cartoon characters to something more lifelike, much longer than you've been living on this planet.
The marketing isn't crap. It's a legitimate reason. I'm sure they don't want 2 faces for a product. As more women play video games, I'm sure we'll see more female leads in commercials and more marketing for womenNuma-Fai wrote...
I agree with Temper_Granitesku and Flies-By_Handles. Totally.
I have never play sims nor of those games you assume they are "for girls". I like battle games, and I'm devoted Bioware customer since they released Baldur's Gate in 2000. Maybe you precoceptions about what we like are clouding your perspective.
I also believe all that thing of confusing marketing and defaultness are crap. They are not trying to captate us. They know you, me and all the people who is posting here are going to buy the game no matter the how the commercials are. I love the story and the characters. I just want to remark that a more open gender policy would be attractive for a high number of customers.
And no, I don't wanna see my character (as long as I have eight female characters) in the cover of anything. You all missed the point. Why do you have to be so childish? Why are you getting angry with me? I do not understand. This was a discussion not a "you lost, I win" fight. All this crap makes me feel really misunderstand.
Shirosaki17 wrote...
I'm not aware of what marketing went into Mass Effect. I assume they did mention somewhere that you could pick genders. If they didn't then perhaps it was a mistake, perhaps it wasn't financially feasible. And maybe box art with both Shepards on it would be a good idea, but expecting Bioware to pay twice as much on box art to appeal to 10 to 20 percent of their base is ridiculous. And what are they suppose to do with the boxes, make 1 fem shep for every 4 males? Asking is ok, but arguing for it is a waste of time.
Modifié par shnizzler93, 30 septembre 2010 - 01:14 .
Numa-Fai wrote...
I agree with Temper_Granitesku and Flies-By_Handles. Totally.
I have never play sims nor of those games you assume they are "for girls". I like battle games, and I'm devoted Bioware customer since they released Baldur's Gate in 2000. Maybe you precoceptions about what we like are clouding your perspective.
Chris Priestly wrote...
You can play as a human male or human female character in Dragon Age 2.
Will you only see the human male in the marketing? I am not sure (we have many months to go yet) but I would guess that, yes, we will mostly use the male character for marketing. Why? Well, there are a lot of marketing reasons for this.
It is important to lock a recognizeable image into the mind of consumers. This is why companys create logos and create brand recognition. You see the goldern arches, you know it is McDonalds. The instant recognition that the image represents the product is very important. Changing the image causes confusion in the mind of advertisers, retailers and potential customers.
Another reason is that males are still the largest target audience for our type of video game. It is also proven data that males predominantly play or associate with a male character first. Hence, the male image. This does not mean that female gamers or male gamers who prefer to play female characters are less important, but they are a smaller consumer group. All marketing is always about attracting the largest group available.
There are a bunch of reasons why we do this in marketing and I know that it annoys some of our fans and I am sorry for this, but it likely won't change. I am confidant that our fans, being imo smarter than the average gamers, realize this and begrudgingly accept this. Evey game I do push to release female character images, screens, videos etc as BioWare does greatly value our "female PC first" audience and I plan to keep doing this for DA2.
Modifié par Optimystic_X, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:00 .
Numa-Fai wrote...
Who cares about the books? I don't like to be told what to go, that's the charm of RPG. If I wanted to be directed I'd play a FPS...
Optimystic_X wrote...
Did anyone link this post by the Chris on the DA2 board about why Lady Hawke isn't being used in Marketing? Sure they are different teams, but I still think it's relevant to this discussion.
EDIT for the lazy, here's the quote:Chris Priestly wrote...
You can play as a human male or human female character in Dragon Age 2.
Will you only see the human male in the marketing? I am not sure (we have many months to go yet) but I would guess that, yes, we will mostly use the male character for marketing. Why? Well, there are a lot of marketing reasons for this.
It is important to lock a recognizeable image into the mind of consumers. This is why companys create logos and create brand recognition. You see the goldern arches, you know it is McDonalds. The instant recognition that the image represents the product is very important. Changing the image causes confusion in the mind of advertisers, retailers and potential customers.
Another reason is that males are still the largest target audience for our type of video game. It is also proven data that males predominantly play or associate with a male character first. Hence, the male image. This does not mean that female gamers or male gamers who prefer to play female characters are less important, but they are a smaller consumer group. All marketing is always about attracting the largest group available.
There are a bunch of reasons why we do this in marketing and I know that it annoys some of our fans and I am sorry for this, but it likely won't change. I am confidant that our fans, being imo smarter than the average gamers, realize this and begrudgingly accept this. Evey game I do push to release female character images, screens, videos etc as BioWare does greatly value our "female PC first" audience and I plan to keep doing this for DA2.
The same undoubtedly applies to Femshep marketing - perhaps moreso, since Mass Effect already has that history of maleshep in the marketing and thus would be even more subject to the confusion he mentions above.
Beocat wrote...
It's pathetic when people are so easily confused. I'd like to have a little bit higher faith in the general gamer population. And yes, by targeting the male audience, you are essentially saying that the male audience is your #1 priority. To say anything else to the contrary after those words is complete denial.
And no....the #2 and lower priority audiences don't "begrudgingly accept" it. They may tolerate it out of lack of choice, but if they truly accepted it at all, you wouldn't hear complaints and pleas to change your stone-age marketing set-up.
Jamin101 wrote...
how bout research?idoless24 wrote...
I probably wouldn't have played the game if I knew you couldn't be a female..once I found out you could play as one then I rented it and finally bought it.
There needs to be some kind of emphasis on the fact that you can play as a female..
seriously saying you didnt know isnt an argument. do you read a review or watch a trailer before seeing a movie? why wouldnt a game be the same, if anything more research would be put in because its 6 times the cost.
its like the guy said you click default shepard or custom. the first screen shown after custom is male or female. if thats too confusing for some maybe a game with reading and stuff isnt for them
Whereto wrote...
Now combine this with the fact that most gamers are male, your female ad would be a waste of resources for the income it would provide
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