561 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

jlb524 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Hale took a longer time to deliver the line, therefore the "Liara smile" animation was altered to accomodate. 

How does Hale's delivery affect Liara's facial expressions exactly?

That's just what I gathered from the dev post.
As an aspiring animator myself, it's quickly learned that timing is key.  Because of the difference in timing, there is a difference in mood.

As a poster above me said, Hale said it slower and with far more impact.  Instead of smiling coyly like she did with MaleShep, Liara looked into space, almost as though she was lost in the beauty of the moment. 

[ThePasserby]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

rynluna wrote...

I appreciate an actual developer coming in here and trying to quell our concerns but we would have to be completely stupid to believe that the difference in body shapes would cause the sobbing audio to not play for FemShep. And Jlb hit the nail on the head....how does FemShep's size cause Liara not to smile toward the end in the cabin scene??

From what I gathered, the size of the body only impacts the clipping errors.  The reason the animations are different is because of how the lines are delivered, and Jesse Houston said exactly that. 

Hale took a longer time to deliver the line, therefore the "Liara smile" animation was altered to accomodate. 

Yup, this is what I was trying to say in an earlier post. I don't know how to explain it any clearer, and yours should be clear enough for most people.

[jlb524]

ThePasserby wrote...

I view them as a case of the aesthetics of those particular scenes. For the cuddling scene where Liara smiles and does not smile in Maleshep and Femshep's scenes respectively, I thought it appropriate that she does not smile when Femshep said "I have to have something to come back to." She looks lost in the moment as Femshep said that. I find it appropriate. So basically, I don't view the lack of a smile as a detraction.

I personally prefer the non-smile version of that scene (It looks like Liara is more 'into it', if you know what I mean) but I know many feel the opposite.  

But, with all the other things that add on top of that, it just started to get to me.

I still think the male scenes are better in general...more emotion from Liara...that's a good thing, in my book.

[Fiery Phoenix]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

This thread has turned very bitter.

Which is a shame really; a slight difference in animation shouldn't hinder what is otherwise an excellent DLC.

The point is to make sure this doesn't happen again. Well, more or less.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

This thread has turned very bitter.

Which is a shame really; a slight difference in animation shouldn't hinder what is otherwise an excellent DLC.

Agreed.

Sure it sucks and seems weird that Femshep lacks some of the dialog and a few details are diffrent.

But the whole "I won't play LOTSB ANY LONGER!!!" seems to slightly overkill.

[ThePasserby]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Hale took a longer time to deliver the line, therefore the "Liara smile" animation was altered to accomodate. 

How does Hale's delivery affect Liara's facial expressions exactly?

That's just what I gathered from the dev post.
As an aspiring animator myself, it's quickly learned that timing is key.  Because of the difference in timing, there is a difference in mood.

As a poster above me said, Hale said it slower and with far more impact.  Instead of smiling coyly like she did with MaleShep, Liara looked into space, almost as though she was lost in the beauty of the moment. 

Yup, I said that. But I think you say it better than I.

[JeanLuc761]

ThePasserby wrote...
Yup, I said that. But I think you say it better than I.

Thanks

Really though, the reasoning makes sense.

[Count Viceroy]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Also, there are tons of guys that play FemShep.

Yeah I know, I didn't say it was a good idea

And why would this not be a good idea? I'm a guy, and I always play Femshep. It never even occured to me, not even once, to play male shep. I've played dozens of games, all with male leads (for lack of the option). I've never really felt emotionally connected to any of these characters, though. Usually it just involves walking around with a big gun, shooting at everything and everyone.

When I got a chance to play Femshep, however, I felt overjoyed almost to play the woman protagonist.  I've often pondered why playing a Femshep feels so much better to me (as I certainly don't have such issues in RL).  For one, I think, playing a male shep is like you're competing with yourself, as it were (if that makes sense). Taking the opposite gender takes the edge of that strive. Also -- and now it gets all entangled and folded in on itself -- I didn't think I could really role play a male shep because of my thinking a man showing too much care and emotion would look too out of character and awkward. Yes, that's years of male stereotypical conditioning talking. Now, as irony would have it, I know myself to be a sensitive and caring guy. Yet the double irony of that situation (I told you this would horridly fold in on itself, LOL) is, that the one ingame male who actually does show emotion and care, Kaidan, is the one guy I can't stand (and probably for that reason). So, I'm a caring and gentle guy who feels role playing such a guy would be out of character, who can't stand Kaidan for it, and rathers plays Femshep to make it all happen. Did I leave anything out?

Femshep ain't weak; and she's certainly no softie. There is, of course, just something about the female voice that makes her eminently more suited to express emotion (certainly if that voice is attached to Jennifer Hale). It's not just Mark Meer's performance (although I think it could have been better; but let's not open that can of worms). For instance, I study Japanese now, where I really notice the difference. The women are so articulate, so clear and crisp; while Japanese men just tend to slur. There's probably nothing biologically wrong with our voices; it's just that men, I think, assumed not to express emotion, don't generally bother training themselves in the art. So, for role playing, the voice alone makes a female so much more appealing to me.

There's also things, role-playing wise, I'd never do with a male shep. For instance, I love to accessorize, and color-coordinate my Femshep's gear. It's important, LOL. With my male shep (that I just quickly created once, just for giggles) I never bothered, or ever would. Role playing the guy I just slapped on the first best N7 suit that came along, and was done with it. Well, apart from burying myself in the part, there's also the simple fact that I want my Femshep to look good (sorry, I'm a guy, after all). And I find that creating the perfect Femshep also tickles the artistic bone, really. Again, with a male shep I wouldn't bother, and didn't (I just picked a prefab face for him, and only changed skin tone a bit, is all).

And lastly, my male actions would likely be too renegade.

Woah, I think you misread my post or that's one hell of an example of taking something out of context.  I was talking to jib about my theory on why bioware would have made the scenes different. She replied saying it sounded odd. It's my idea I'm referring to, nothing else

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[Sable Phoenix]

Jesse Houston wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

For exmaple, Meer takes X seconds to perform the line "I have to have something to come back to, " while Hale takes X + 1 secs to do that. The extra one second means some differences between the male and female animations have to be accounted for.

This is effectively the case.  It's not an exact science and most often than most people can't tell the difference.

I still fail to see how Hale's dialogue can account for Liara not smiling, not closing her eyes, or other facial expression animations.

And I went to art college to learn computer animation.  Changing the timing of things like that would be as simple as dragging keyframes.

And, uh... how can Hale's voice acting influence the timing of Liara's lines when Liara speaks first?

I understand what you're saying but for this specific situation I don't see how it applies.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[Iwakura-Lain]

Lizardviking wrote...

But the whole "I won't play LOTSB ANY LONGER!!!" seems to slightly overkill.

Perhaps. I think a lot of Femshep players are like me, though: we are emotionally invested in her and her story. I find nothing so strange about people not wanting to play LotSB for a while: nobody likes to pour salt into their own wounds. Do you?

[ThePasserby]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

Jesse Houston wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

For exmaple, Meer takes X seconds to perform the line "I have to have something to come back to, " while Hale takes X + 1 secs to do that. The extra one second means some differences between the male and female animations have to be accounted for.

This is effectively the case.  It's not an exact science and most often than most people can't tell the difference.

I still fail to see how Hale's dialogue can account for Liara not smiling, not closing her eyes, or other facial expression animations.

And I went to art college to learn computer animation.  Changing the timing of things like that would be as simple as dragging keyframes.

I think it is a case of interpretation of the scenes. The animator of the Femshep version probably decided that Liara not smiling suits the mood better, because Hale said the line before hers in a way that's more sensuous. You may not agree with the animator's vision, but I personally don't think that smiling is per se better than not smiling.

[Deturis90]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Hale took a longer time to deliver the line, therefore the "Liara smile" animation was altered to accomodate. 

How does Hale's delivery affect Liara's facial expressions exactly?

That's just what I gathered from the dev post.
As an aspiring animator myself, it's quickly learned that timing is key.  Because of the difference in timing, there is a difference in mood.

As a poster above me said, Hale said it slower and with far more impact.  Instead of smiling coyly like she did with MaleShep, Liara looked into space, almost as though she was lost in the beauty of the moment. 

Best explanation, beer for you :]

[jlb524]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Perhaps. I think a lot of Femshep players are like me, though: we are emotionally invested in her and her story. I find nothing so strange about people not wanting to play LotSB for a while: nobody likes to pour salt into their own wounds. Do you?

Yeah, it does kind of feel like that.

Like I said, I played it 6 times already, but, don't really desire to play it atm as the romance has lost some of it's 'magic' for me.  I thought it was awesome, but now (to me) it's just a buggy/inferior rehash of the really awesome romance.

[Iwakura-Lain]

ThePasserby wrote...

I think it is a case of interpretation of the scenes. The animator of the Femshep version probably decided that Liara not smiling suits the mood better, because Hale said the line before hers in a way that's more sensuous. You may not agree with the animator's vision, but I personally don't think that smiling is per se better than not smiling.

If this were the case, I would have preferred the dev saying so then, and not bury the truth in some technical mumbo-jumbo that honestly wasn't too hard to crack. People can accept truth rather well; the other thing, not so much.

[OrbitalWings]

jlb524 wrote...
Yeah, it does kind of feel like that.

Like I said, I played it 6 times already, but, don't really desire to play it atm as the romance has lost some of it's 'magic' for me.  I thought it was awesome, but now (to me) it's just a buggy/inferior rehash of the really awesome romance.

Unfortunately, I kinda feel that way too.

On the one hand, I like the scene even more - when it works.

On the other hand, I don't want to play it knowing that my version is inferior.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Iwakura-Lain wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

But the whole "I won't play LOTSB ANY LONGER!!!" seems to slightly overkill.

Perhaps. I think a lot of Femshep players are like me, though: we are emotionally invested in her and her story. I find nothing so strange about people not wanting to play LotSB for a while: nobody likes to pour salt into their own wounds. Do you?

I fully understand the complaints but in topic, and I fully support them. I don't think Bioware did these changes intentionally, but they should still recieve some criticism for some lack of oversight (even if it was nothing more than an honest mistake). And hopefully that criticism will remind Bioware to pay more atention with the femshep version of things.

But some people in here have thrown nothing more than a tantrum.

[Pacifien]

There is pyramid quoting going on in this thread and it needs to stop.

[kraidy1117]

Edit?: Post removed. No Swearing here. 

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 29 septembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Deturis90]

[quote]GamerFSS86 wrote...

[quote]kraidy1117 wrote...

[/quote]
I think he did.