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Make sex like in Fallout 2!


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#101
DMC12

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slimgrin wrote...

Books can feature sex, no one complains.

Graphic novels can feature sex, its to be expected, they're graphic.

Movies can feature sex, cause they can be R-rated.

Video games can't feature sex, or nudity, or anything like that cause we all know adults don't play video games, and video games don't utilize story, and as a medium they are incapable of dealing with adult issues...



Someone better tell the people at Bioware about this. They're breaking all the rules.


What's wrong with imagining the sex scene with a fade to black or some groping before the transition? Is it because there's no frontal nudity? If it's just a problem because video games don't show nudity, then nope: keep the porn out of games. I haven't heard of or played a game that tastefully shows a sex scene that isn't a fade to black.

#102
ErichHartmann

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Since when does nudity automatically equal porn?

#103
Guest_slimgrin_*

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DMC12 wrote...

What's wrong with imagining the sex scene with a fade to black or some groping before the transition? Is it because there's no frontal nudity? If it's just a problem because video games don't show nudity, then nope: keep the porn out of games. I haven't heard of or played a game that tastefully shows a sex scene that isn't a fade to black.


So it appears you are calling for a sense of decorum, of moderation, perhaps you might even call it personal taste. No slippery slope there. :whistle:

Modifié par slimgrin, 02 octobre 2010 - 03:27 .


#104
tool_bot

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ErichHartmann wrote...

Since when does nudity automatically equal porn?


Since we all know if there's nudity our children will masturbate to it, or something. I really don't know.

#105
DMC12

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slimgrin wrote...

DMC12 wrote...

What's wrong with imagining the sex scene with a fade to black or some groping before the transition? Is it because there's no frontal nudity? If it's just a problem because video games don't show nudity, then nope: keep the porn out of games. I haven't heard of or played a game that tastefully shows a sex scene that isn't a fade to black.


So it appears you are calling for a sense of decorum, of moderation, perhaps you might even call it personal taste. No slippery slope there. :whistle:


I'm not calling for a sense of decency beyond the clothed groping and the fade to black. That's fine, but showing two pixelated characters in the nude having graphic sex is not. It's pornography, and it's not tasteful or mature or an art.

#106
tool_bot

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DMC12 wrote...

I'm not calling for a sense of decency beyond the clothed groping and the fade to black. That's fine, but showing two pixelated characters in the nude having graphic sex is not. It's pornography, and it's not tasteful or mature or an art.


Does this only apply to animated love scenes or love scenes in general?

#107
Adanu

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Sex is part of our nature. Denying it is like denying we need to exercise... sure, you cna live without it, but without it life is *much* more difficult in many ways.

#108
SirShreK

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ErichHartmann wrote...

Since when does nudity automatically equal porn?


Since quite some time UNLESS it depicts historical/mythological figures....

Remember Eve?

#109
AlanC9

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DMC12 wrote...
I'm not calling for a sense of decency beyond the clothed groping and the fade to black. That's fine, but showing two pixelated characters in the nude having graphic sex is not. It's pornography, and it's not tasteful or mature or an art.


What level is out of bounds? Could a game have something like, say, the Amanda Seyfried/ Julianne Moore scene from Chloe, or is that too much?

#110
SirShreK

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AlanC9 wrote...

DMC12 wrote...
I'm not calling for a sense of decency beyond the clothed groping and the fade to black. That's fine, but showing two pixelated characters in the nude having graphic sex is not. It's pornography, and it's not tasteful or mature or an art.


What level is out of bounds? Could a game have something like, say, the Amanda Seyfried/ Julianne Moore scene from Chloe, or is that too much?


Heard of ESRB ratings?

#111
AlanC9

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 Sure, but I prefer concrete examples, and I don't have much faith in the ESRB having coherent standards. Or maybe I just wanted an excuse to think of that scene again...:o

#112
SirShreK

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AlanC9 wrote...

 Sure, but I prefer concrete examples, and I don't have much faith in the ESRB having coherent standards. Or maybe I just wanted an excuse to think of that scene again...:o




Hmm... That is good. :)

Any way... Clear depiction of Nudity is a nono unless you want strict Adult rating from ESRB that is enforced with law.

Thus showing warden and Morrigan having it out without those much abhored thongs will kill the largest fraction of legal customers from any company.


"Tasteful" is just a lame excuse.

Modifié par SirShreK, 02 octobre 2010 - 07:08 .


#113
ErichHartmann

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SirShreK wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Since when does nudity automatically equal porn?


Since quite some time UNLESS it depicts historical/mythological figures....

Remember Eve?


Renaissance Europe is not the authority on what was acceptable in Art.  Their views were very narrow.   

#114
DMC12

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ErichHartmann wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Since when does nudity automatically equal porn?


Since quite some time UNLESS it depicts historical/mythological figures....

Remember Eve?


Renaissance Europe is not the authority on what was acceptable in Art.  Their views were very narrow.   


I find the art of the Renaissance to be much more magnificent than the art today, which I find to be garbage. But there is a distinct difference between art and pornography when it comes to nudity. A nude figure shown in an idealized or natural fashion can be considered art. A naked dwarf hooker moaning on a bed as your character "attacks" her with his +2 sword of penetration is not art, it's obscene pornography, and is, quite frankly, pathetic.

People who support "nudity"or more graphic sex scenes don't want art or realism, they want porn in their video game and try to disguise it as a natural, harmless act in order to make their perversion look more sophisticated.

In the words of former Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." And all I see in the argument for more explicit sex scenes in video game, is obscene and unnecessary pornographic material.

Modifié par DMC12, 02 octobre 2010 - 08:04 .


#115
Nerevar-as

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They could make like CD Project and tweak a bit the international version.

#116
tool_bot

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DMC12 wrote...

I find the art of the Renaissance to be much more magnificent than the art today, which I find to be garbage. But there is a distinct difference between art and pornography when it comes to nudity. A nude figure shown in an idealized or natural fashion can be considered art. A naked dwarf hooker moaning on a bed as your character "attacks" her with his +2 sword of penetration is not art, it's obscene pornography, and is, quite frankly, pathetic.


Why am I reminded of that scene between what's her face and her teacher in 'A Tree Grows in Brooklyn?'

People who support "nudity"or more graphic sex scenes don't want art or realism, they want porn in their video game and try to disguise it as a natural, harmless act in order to make their perversion look more sophisticated.


Ok, tool. If I want porn, I'll visit Brazzers or HentaiFromHell or track down a doujin from whatever game/anime I'm interested in. I won't spend 50 ****ing dollars on a game I'd spend half of it just trying to seduce some random broad.

In the words of former Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." And all I see in the argument for more explicit sex scenes in video game, is obscene and unnecessary pornographic material.


All this without actually addressing anyone's argument? Bravo! 

#117
AlanC9

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DMC12 wrote...
In the words of former Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." And all I see in the argument for more explicit sex scenes in video game, is obscene and unnecessary pornographic material.


That's exactly it; you and I almost certainly will have different opinions about whether certain things are "porn" or not. You still haven't said what's acceptable and what isn't, and why Bio should make games that meet with your approval rather than mine, or SirShrek's, or any other random forum member's.

It's a shame Potter Stewart is mostly remembered these days for such a fatuous quote.

#118
tool_bot

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AlanC9 wrote...

It's a shame Potter Stewart is mostly remembered these days for such a fatuous quote.


It's always easier to boil someone down to one liners, especially if said one liner somehow validates the speaker's argument.

One of the reasons why I believe cliches, truisms and conventional wisdom should be met with hostility.

#119
Nerevar-as

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A curious quote to use considering the original context.

#120
tool_bot

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Nerevar-as wrote...

A curious quote to use considering the original context.


yeah but 

"and the pixelated sex involved in this case is not that."

really wouldn't have the same affect for his argument, would it?

#121
Adanu

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DMC< you are the reason FOx news made a mountain out of a molehill. I hope that one day you take off the blinders and learn your opinion is not the only one in the world, and that your type is ruining it for everyone else.



So, if you're allowed to dismiss us, we're allowed to dismiss you. I call it like I see it, and you're the problem.

#122
SirOccam

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DMC12 wrote...

People who support "nudity"or more graphic sex scenes don't want art or realism, they want porn in their video game and try to disguise it as a natural, harmless act in order to make their perversion look more sophisticated.

Way to generalize. Everyone thinks they alone have the perfect definition of what is acceptable and what isn't. Anyone who is more restrictive is a prude, and everyone who is less restrictive is a pervert.

Well how do you know you're not being prudish? Or perverted? Maybe some of the things that you're okay with shouldn't really be allowed either. Why don't we cover up ladies' ankles while we're at it? Back in the day that was considered pornographic. Was that wrong of them to believe that? If so, then how do you know you're not just as wrong?

Personally I don't want more nudity for the sake of nudity, and in fact I really don't want anything even close to porn. I tried some mods to change the just plain silly-looking love scenes in the game, but even the ones labeled "mild" felt gratuitous. What I want is not to be treated like a child in a rated M game. I'm an adult, and I don't want the games I play to be censored in such a blatant and silly way because other people might decide to let their kids play it. That's not to say I'm opposed to any kind of censoring. Like I said, I don't need nudity for the sake of nudity. What I'd prefer is something like ME1 where we saw very little but the scene was nicely and tastefully done, without resorting to granny panties.

Have you ever seen a movie with any amount of nudity that you didn't consider pornographic? If not, then I guess my words are wasted on you, but if so, then how would you feel if they put big smiley face pictures over the nipples? That would be ridiculous, right? But being opposed to that doesn't mean you're some kind of skeevy pervert who's just obsessed with seeing boobs.

Modifié par SirOccam, 03 octobre 2010 - 01:02 .


#123
ScotGaymer

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For the record I do use the nude mods and the "better sex scenes" mods as well.



Mostly cos I think that the vanilla female bodies looked dowdy and unrealistic and didnt actually match the bodies used when the women were wearing clothes! It was most noticable on Morrigan of course.

The male bodies had a similar problem but it wasnt as glaring as the female ones.



I dont use the "erect" male bodies simply because I think it looks silly for your character to magically have an obvious excitement any time u take off/change his armour; not to mention how silly it looks any time you see a nude character in game cos any time you see one outside of The Pearl its usually cos they are dead (King Cailan in Ostagar) or in prison (the Prisoners beneath Castle of the Arl of Denerim).



The better sex scenes also consist of "mild", "medium", and "zesty". I use the medium ones which are slightly longer than the vanilla scenes and are a tiny bit more graphic than the vanilla scenes. They about as graphic as the sex scenes in Sex and the City. Mild is basically the vanilla scenes with better camera angles. And Zesty is longer than medium, a bit more graphic again; about on the level as Basic Instinct's sex scene i reckon.

I wouldnt class any of them as porn; maybe zesty might qualify as soft core but if it did it would be very very soft.

I use them mostly for realism. A bit of dry humping in underwear seemed just stupid to me. Especially in a game that features a LOT of gore and death; it also seemed vaguely hypocritical and foolish.

#124
SirOccam

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FitScotGaymer wrote...

The better sex scenes also consist of "mild", "medium", and "zesty". I use the medium ones which are slightly longer than the vanilla scenes and are a tiny bit more graphic than the vanilla scenes. They about as graphic as the sex scenes in Sex and the City. Mild is basically the vanilla scenes with better camera angles. And Zesty is longer than medium, a bit more graphic again; about on the level as Basic Instinct's sex scene i reckon.
I wouldnt class any of them as porn; maybe zesty might qualify as soft core but if it did it would be very very soft.
I use them mostly for realism. A bit of dry humping in underwear seemed just stupid to me. Especially in a game that features a LOT of gore and death; it also seemed vaguely hypocritical and foolish.

I wouldn't call the mild ones porn, necessarily, but I would call it gratuitous. Seeing one of the participants getting a BJ, for example, has no bearing whatsoever on the story. There's really no good reason for adding it other than to make it titillating for the viewer.

What we need to know, at the basest level, is that they're doing it. One secondary objective might be to highlight the "mood" of the occasion, meaning is it rough or tender or whatever...that still tells us something about the participants' character and/or the kind of relationship they have. For example, I think it being Alistair's first time is a valid thing to take into account. You'd miss that chance with a fade-to-black, and your only recourse would be to spell it out in "pillow talk" later, which has a high risk of being clunky or awkward.

But the thing is, none of that actually requires any nudity. Again I'll bring up Mass Effect 1. We see very little indeed, just half an ass. But most people agree it was miles ahead of DAO.

With DAO, it felt like they used these extremely blatant camera angles, and as a result they had to resort to the underwear. But if they had just used more subtle camera angles in the first place, there'd be no need for them. For example, take the Dark Ritual. It starts out with what is nearly a full-body shot of Morrigan facing the camera. I think even the most permissive gamer can appreciate why BW might want to avoid full frontal nudity. But rather than slapping the undies on her (which makes no sense because she's clearly not wearing that bra beforehand), what if they did an over-the-shoulder shot? Or maybe one from her waist up from the back, so you can see the Warden's reaction as her robe falls to the floor? Or if technical difficulties prevent disrobing, you could just show her bare back as she walks toward the Warden.

Anyway, these are just examples. Maybe not even good ones; I'm no filmmaker. But it feels like using the underpants was a band-aid for a problem they themselves created by not considering their camera angles more carefully.

Modifié par SirOccam, 03 octobre 2010 - 01:36 .


#125
AlanC9

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It does make you wonder what the original plan for the scene was.