172 réponses à ce sujet

[DMC12]

tool_bot wrote...

Ok, tool. If I want porn, I'll visit Brazzers or HentaiFromHell or track down a doujin from whatever game/anime I'm interested in. I won't spend 50 ****ing dollars on a game I'd spend half of it just trying to seduce some random broad.

You talking to yourself? But seriously, yeah you should go look for porn elsewhere. Now I certainly haven't played DA:2, but from looking at Origins, romances didn't take up half the game. In fact, they were optional. I'd say the game was more focused on quests, the "kill the Archdemon" story, and tactical combat. Romance was very very small.

In the words of former Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." And all I see in the argument for more explicit sex scenes in video game, is obscene and unnecessary pornographic material.

All this without actually addressing anyone's argument? Bravo! 

I believe my point was pretty clear, but I'll be blunt this time if you'd like: anyone who wants explicit sex scenes in a video game is a pervert.

AlanC9 wrote...

That's
exactly it; you and I almost certainly will have different opinions
about whether certain things are "porn" or not. You still haven't said
what's acceptable and what isn't, and why Bio should make games that
meet with your approval rather than mine, or SirShrek's, or any other
random forum member's.

Now this is a more sensible response. I think I mentioned previously that the "fade to black" and clothed groping/make-out scenes are fine. If I didn't mention that before, well there it is. As for Bioware making games for my approval? I'm just a consumer, good sir. I have no say, but I can say that I've been pleased with every game I've bought from them, which has been four (five if you count Awakening).

It's a shame Potter Stewart is mostly remembered these days for such a fatuous quote.

Well he said it in regards to pornography (I believe it was hard-core porno) in movies. Someone brought up other mediums, including film, so I felt it was appropriate and summed up my perception of the topic as well.

Adanu wrote...
DMC< you are the reason FOx news made a mountain out of a molehill.
I hope that one day you take off the blinders and learn your opinion is
not the only one in the world, and that your type is ruining it for
everyone else.

I'm sorry that my opinion on the subject is the same as the only opinion (out of many) that really matters in the world, and that it's ruining all fun of the gamers who want their happy ending and full release from a video game. If you play a game only for the erotic content it has in it, well then that's your problem, you ruined the game and possibly the industry as well for yourself before you even purchased the product.

So, if you're allowed to dismiss us, we're allowed to dismiss you. I call it like I see it, and you're the problem.

I'm terribly broken up.

SirOccam wrote...
Well how do you know you're not being prudish? Or perverted? Maybe some of the things that you're
okay with shouldn't really be allowed either. Why don't we cover up
ladies' ankles while we're at it? Back in the day that was considered
pornographic. Was that wrong of them to believe that? If so, then how
do you know you're not just as wrong?

"Back in the day", showing ankles may be have been considered obscene, but here "in the day", showing nudity coupled together with two or more people humping each other is considered obscene. Especially when it's a video game.

Have you ever seen a movie with any amount of nudity that you didn't
consider pornographic? If not, then I guess my words are wasted on you,
but if so, then how would you feel if they put big smiley face pictures
over the nipples? That would be ridiculous, right? But being opposed to
that doesn't mean you're some kind of skeevy pervert who's just
obsessed with seeing boobs.

I have indeed seen films with nudity that I didn't feel were pornographic, and I've seen some that I thought were done crudely. But films are different than video games (obviously), especially RPGs. Hell, a lot of films make use of the transition feature when it comes to a sex scene, jumping from one scene when they are just about to have relations, to a shot where they're in bed having some pillow talk. But anyway, films are pretty set when it comes to their audience and general reception, video games are not. I'll explain:

Currently, there's this minor issue with video games as an art or not, similar to whether a movie can be considered art or a musical piece. Proponents say that video games can be highly expressive, have great stories, and have deep meaning behind them. While I agree with them to an extent, these advocates also have to get through the stigma that video games are for losers and nerds. Having explicit nudity/sex scenes doesn't really help. Not to mention that it really is awkward and sleezy to have that material in a game, especially when it's an RPG where you're defining your character based on you or your desired traits. Call it social conformity or whatever, but the majority opinion wins everytime, as it should. So that, coupled with the fact that it's really unnecessary, and that video games should be based on concrete stories and entertaining gameplay, I stand by my stance that those in favor of explicit sex scenes are skeevy perverts.

Also, it seems that the people here in support of explicit sexual content in video games seem to view that it would make it a more mature experience. Why? If you mean that the material should only be viewed by an older audience, then yeah I agree. But if you mean that it is somehow more refined and tasteful to an older audience, then I disagree. How is showing explicit sex more mature (in terms of the second context above) as opposed to the fade-to-black or some other transition that doesn't feature sex, thus leaving it up to the imagination? Why is it necessary?

[tool_bot]

DMC12 wrote...
You talking to yourself? But seriously, yeah you should go look for porn elsewhere. Now I certainly haven't played DA:2, but from looking at Origins, romances didn't take up half the game. In fact, they were optional. I'd say the game was more focused on quests, the "kill the Archdemon" story, and tactical combat. Romance was very very small.

You're every iota an enlightened individual.

I believe my point was pretty clear, but I'll be blunt this time if you'd like: anyone who wants explicit sex scenes in a video game is a pervert.

and douchebag.

Grow up. 

[DMC12]

tool_bot wrote...

DMC12 wrote...
You talking to yourself? But seriously, yeah you should go look for porn elsewhere. Now I certainly haven't played DA:2, but from looking at Origins, romances didn't take up half the game. In fact, they were optional. I'd say the game was more focused on quests, the "kill the Archdemon" story, and tactical combat. Romance was very very small.

You're every iota an enlightened individual.

Well you're name is tool, you said, "Okay, tool..." Ah forget it, I thought it was funny...

I believe my point was pretty clear, but I'll be blunt this time if you'd like: anyone who wants explicit sex scenes in a video game is a pervert.

and douchebag.

Grow up. 

...no I take that back, you're funny. Amuse me some more.

Modifié par DMC12, 03 octobre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Kerethos]

I think the best way to use sex and seduction in DA2, or any story driven game, is to have it as an option in cases where it makes sense in terms of the story. I don't want a game where half my problems can be solved by either pimping myself or someone else out.



As for sex scenes in games, they should be a part of the plot if they are to be included at all. A fine example of this is the initial sexual offer from Jack in ME2. It has no nudity, but it still gets the job done and contributes to the interaction between her and your Shepard. But that type of scene does not really gain anything from the two of them tearing each others clothes off. It's more effective to just fade out, once it's been established that there will be sex.



Taking the workers at the Pearl in DA:O as an example, I’d much rather see a scene with a humorous cheesy line spoken as the worker leads The Warden off screen, like “I’ll show you some real magic honey” to a mage character, then the version in the game where you wait for them both to be in their small clothes in a back room before a silly line is spoken and the fade to black comes. Once the fact that there will be sex has been established, there’s little need to show it.



Love scenes, on the other hand, can contribute to a feeling of a deepening relationship between your character and another. But a love scene does not mean the characters have to get naked, it's perfectly fine to fade to black before the main event. I think ME2 does this well, not perfectly, but very well. The love scenes there are mostly interactive, and at times rather sweet, sometimes even a little awkward in a cute way, and they give you the feeling that your character shared an intimate moment with someone they care for.



I think the best thing would be to find a middle ground between ME2 and DA:O, as in ME2 the love scenes where the culmination of a relationship, then the relationship subplot felt like it just ended. In DA:O they where just a part of the relationship. The romance continued and ended or deepened afterwards.



The Morrigan scene, for example, would have been far better of with her leading the Warden to her tent, with some kissing and such on the way. Once she and the Warden goes into the tent for the main event, a sad look from Leliana as she watches the tent (if your in a romance with her), or even Alistair trying to block out the sounds by stuffing bits of stew in his ears, would have been far more rewarding then the current scene. The same can be said of the ritual scene, as the moments after the deed is done would have been an excellent opportunity for something emotional (especially if you are in a romance with any of the participants) or just a chance to make fun of the participants, if you’d be of a mind.



My point to all this rambling is that sex, in itself, is rather pointless in a game without emotion. Be it sadness, joy or even a feeling that your character just did something rather demeaning – but without emotion it’s just pointless showing of skin/nudity. Just showing the characters perform deed is not the most the most satisfying thing to do for the player. That is, at least, my opinion.

[asaiasai]

I do not think that overt sexual content should be in the normal release of the game. I do how ever believe that it should be avalable as a seperate and for additional cost down load that i would be willing to snatch up at the first moment it is avalable.
 
I have found a mod for Fall Out 3 that seems to bridge the gap, provide a bit of depth to an already workable economy, provide the necessary titilation, and does not conflict with the lore of the Fall Out 3 world. The mod is called animated prostitution and can be found on the Nexus site google fall out 3 mods and look for the Nexus site. You must either have an account or create one to view the adult content, a concept i totally support. With out going into too much detail the mod provides an alternative revenue stream for the player to utalize. Instead of spending 3 to 4 hours trucking every bit of scrap one can find, scorched books, tin cans, empty bottles, etc etc in an inventory system limited by weight to earn "caps". One can work as a prostitute in any of the settlements the character can enter to generate the same funds in half the time. The whole deal is like a mini game where the players stats are a determining factor in how successful convincing a NPC to partake of the players offered services to earn "caps" and most important experience points. It is definatly not a given that the player's offer will be accepted by the NPC hence the skill building that the player will need to do.  Add into this the requirement that the player in order to be more sucessful at this sexual game will need to assign skill points in the areas away from combat to up thier desirability forcing the player to choose what is important, cash to buy better gear to make up for the lack of combat skills, or combat skills to make up for the lack of cash for better equipment. The mod instead of being just gratuitious sex for the sake of sex has become another part of a work able economy. As always the player has the choice to work as a pro, truck garbage in from the wilds, or doing game missions as a way to advance thier characters monetary gain. The mod goes further in that it is animated, not bad actually considering it is a mod and not part of the proffesional production of the game, and avalable for both sexes to utalize. Once a NPC has agreed to partake of the player's offered services, the player can not choose the sexual act performed nor can the animation be stopped until the NPC is finished.

I had a little trouble getting the mod to work, and as i am a believer in that one must support financially what one enjoys, as a patron of the digital arts if you will, made a donation to the modders website. I asked him to package up all the files necessary into one self extracting zip file for ease of use and requested that he make the file avalable to any who wanted it. I would have been willing to pay Bioware, Volition, Rockstar, Bethesda, or Valve for this content of this nature provided proffessionally with in the game, but that is not a possibility yet.

 I do find that for the most part human sexuality is something that many games that strive to create a realistic environment or an environment based in some form of human reality seem to forget is part of the human experience. Sex can be just sex, it can be the bond of a deeper connection between two people, or in the case of most modern relationships a bussiness transaction. For a mature game to completely ignore this fundamental basic part of the experience of being a hairless monkey does seem a bit like cowardice. It is like Volition, in Saints Row 2 there is no nudity, no sexual content, there however is plenty of ineuendo. It is a bit hypocritical of Volition to titilate the fans with Tera Patrick DLCs which contain none of the content for which Tera Patrick is famous for. Then there is Bioware with the fade to black of the scenes in the Pearl, the clothed sexual relationships between the PC and thier LI, and the dancers in the ME clubs, the total loss of any mature sexual content between Shep and thier LI. It is almost like Bioware ran full speed to the end of the dock, then chickened out at the last second claiming they only "visualized" jumping into the water getting wet and the whole excercise was about running down the dock instead. Which would be ok if we could get some approiate wiggle and jiggle as a place to start for our trouble.
something to ponder
Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 03 octobre 2010 - 07:23 .

[SirOccam]

DMC12 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...
Well how do you know you're not being prudish? Or perverted? Maybe some of the things that you're okay with shouldn't really be allowed either. Why don't we cover up ladies' ankles while we're at it? Back in the day that was considered pornographic. Was that wrong of them to believe that? If so, then how do you know you're not just as wrong?

"Back in the day", showing ankles may be have been considered obscene, but here "in the day", showing nudity coupled together with two or more people humping each other is considered obscene. Especially when it's a video game.

Okay, but you're referring (apparently) to hard-core or explicit sex. I'm not. If you read my posts I made it clear that I would not be in favor of such a thing. What I am opposed to is the heavy-handed censorship. They can include sex scenes without being explicit but also without resorting to a fade-to-black. Again, see ME1. Did you have a problem with that scene?

Have you ever seen a movie with any amount of nudity that you didn't consider pornographic? If not, then I guess my words are wasted on you, but if so, then how would you feel if they put big smiley face pictures over the nipples? That would be ridiculous, right? But being opposed to that doesn't mean you're some kind of skeevy pervert who's just obsessed with seeing boobs.

I have indeed seen films with nudity that I didn't feel were pornographic, and I've seen some that I thought were done crudely. But films are different than video games (obviously), especially RPGs. Hell, a lot of films make use of the transition feature when it comes to a sex scene, jumping from one scene when they are just about to have relations, to a shot where they're in bed having some pillow talk. But anyway, films are pretty set when it comes to their audience and general reception, video games are not. I'll explain:

I don't think the differences between film and video games matters at all here. In both cases, we're talking about a non-interactive scene that is meant to convey a particular mood. Yes, some films fade-to-black, and some games do too. Some films don't, however, and are able to do so without being explicit or pornographic about it, and there's no reason games can't do the same.

And anyway, you didn't answer my questions. In such a movie, how would you feel if they put some kind of clumsy censorship over the nipples? Would you not be opposed to that in an otherwise serious film? And being opposed to it wouldn't mean you're just some kind of desperate loser who just wants to see boobs, right?

Currently, there's this minor issue with video games as an art or not, similar to whether a movie can be considered art or a musical piece. Proponents say that video games can be highly expressive, have great stories, and have deep meaning behind them. While I agree with them to an extent, these advocates also have to get through the stigma that video games are for losers and nerds. Having explicit nudity/sex scenes doesn't really help. Not to mention that it really is awkward and sleezy to have that material in a game, especially when it's an RPG where you're defining your character based on you or your desired traits. Call it social conformity or whatever, but the majority opinion wins everytime, as it should. So that, coupled with the fact that it's really unnecessary, and that video games should be based on concrete stories and entertaining gameplay, I stand by my stance that those in favor of explicit sex scenes are skeevy perverts.

Again, I'm not talking about explicit sex scenes. Assuming that any nudity naturally translates into explicit sex is quite the generalization. I wouldn't freak out if there were some nudity, but like I described before, they can have compelling scenes without any nudity. All I want is for there not to be such ridiculous censorship. It feels like it's patronizing to the intended audience of the game. If they find it beyond their abilities to portray such a scene in a meaningful way without resorting to explicit sex and without resorting to the same underwear foolishness, then I would indeed favor a fade-to-black. But I don't think it is beyond their abilities, and as the game is likely to be rated M for other things like violence, I think it should be made for that audience, and they shouldn't shy away from it if it helps the story.

Also, it seems that the people here in support of explicit sexual content in video games seem to view that it would make it a more mature experience. Why? If you mean that the material should only be viewed by an older audience, then yeah I agree. But if you mean that it is somehow more refined and tasteful to an older audience, then I disagree. How is showing explicit sex more mature (in terms of the second context above) as opposed to the fade-to-black or some other transition that doesn't feature sex, thus leaving it up to the imagination? Why is it necessary?

Yet again, I'm not talking about explicit content, and no I don't think such content is necessarily more "mature." That's exactly what I said about some of the sex scene mods for DAO. All of them show way more than is needed, even the most mild of them. But at the same time, a little nudity shouldn't be such a big deal, and I really don't understand why it is. In a game where you can decapitate people and a multitude of other things, god forbid a nipple be shown. It seems like lots of people think even the slightest glimpse of anything is going to send the audience into raving perversion. Maybe if we didn't treat it that way it wouldn't happen.

My definition in this case of "refined and tasteful" is what ME1 did. I didn't find either DAO nor ME2 very refined nor tasteful. Instead of subtlety, they opted for either inexplicable underwear or just being fully clothed, respectively. So you have fade-to-black at one end of the spectrum, and full-on hardcore scenes at the other. I am somewhere in the middle, more on the FTB side honestly. But just as explicit sex isn't more mature, it's also not more mature to be prudish. Maturity, to me, is not requiring nudity, but being able to handle it without flipping out if it's there.

Modifié par SirOccam, 03 octobre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

My, what happened here... I thought we were talking about the impact of sex on the plot.

[Hurrrr]

I guess part of the issue is that as dark as Bioware advertise the game, its still harry potter and not lovecraft



Fallout 1/2 had no inhibitions, but hey, that was the golden age anyway.

[SirShreK]

SirOccam wrote...
<Snip>

ESRB ratings dude!

You can not portray full nudity with M... Only implicit sexual content or partial nudity (mostly either sidebood I think).

[tool_bot]

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

ESRB ratings dude!

You can not portray full nudity with M... Only implicit sexual content or partial nudity (mostly either sidebood I think).

These the same ratings that gave FFXII a warning for partial nudity?

Weren't no partial nudity in that game. I know. I checked. 

[SirOccam]

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

ESRB ratings dude!

You can not portray full nudity with M... Only implicit sexual content or partial nudity (mostly either sidebood I think).

*facepalm*

Read it again. I'm NOT ASKING for full nudity.

[DanteCousland]

As long as I see some dick I'm happy.

[Bobad]

DanteCousland wrote...

As long as I see some dick I'm happy.

As a companion or NPC?

[SirShreK]

SirOccam wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

ESRB ratings dude!

You can not portray full nudity with M... Only implicit sexual content or partial nudity (mostly either sidebood I think).

*facepalm*

Read it again. I'm NOT ASKING for full nudity.

Err... then you got to qualify even partial nudity. Showing breasts or behinds is also Adult rated  IIRC.

E.g. the Witcher Cards. They did self-censor themselves, but there was a debate if the uncensored version should be adult rated (was it? I think it was...).

Modifié par SirShreK, 03 octobre 2010 - 07:45 .

[DanteCousland]

Bobad wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...

As long as I see some dick I'm happy.

As a companion or NPC?

I meant as in penis. I like penis.

[Bobad]

DanteCousland wrote...

Bobad wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...

As long as I see some dick I'm happy.

As a companion or NPC?

I meant as in penis. I like penis.

So I understand, but I reiterate, as a companion or NPC?

Modifié par Bobad, 03 octobre 2010 - 07:54 .

[Chaos Lord Malek]

I never meant for this to turn into 'how the sex should look in game', only as for it to serve as another option for progressing in game. But looks like people can`t content with that.



I would be pretty much fine with only kissing, embraces and some cloth dropping with screen and sound fading. However what i meant for this - is that you would actually have more 'deeper' and interesting options to use your charms, rather then solve every problem with sword.

[SirOccam]

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

ESRB ratings dude!

You can not portray full nudity with M... Only implicit sexual content or partial nudity (mostly either sidebood I think).

*facepalm*

Read it again. I'm NOT ASKING for full nudity.

Err... then you got to qualify even partial nudity. Showing breasts or behinds is also Adult rated  IIRC.

E.g. the Witcher Cards. They did self-censor themselves, but there was a debate if the uncensored version should be adult rated (was it? I think it was...).

If that's true, then I think that's ridiculous. M is 17+, same as rated R movies. But regardless, it doesn't matter because I was not even asking for partial nudity. All I'm asking for is that they lose the lame censorship. That's not the same as asking for nudity. I have said repeatedly that no nudity is perfectly fine if they can still make the scene compelling. If they can't figure out a way to do that without resorting to granny panties, then I'd rather they just not try, and do a FTB. I have confidence in them, though; I think they can pull it off.

[tool_bot]

Why is this such an issue for some people? There is nothing wrong with sex. There is nothing wrong with depicting sex. It's sex, not the plans on how to build an H-Bomb.

[Ortaya Alevli]

tool_bot wrote...

Why is this such an issue for some people? There is nothing wrong with sex. There is nothing wrong with depicting sex. It's sex, not the plans on how to build an H-Bomb.

But sex is evil, it corrupts...

[SirShreK]

tool_bot wrote...

Why is this such an issue for some people? There is nothing wrong with sex. There is nothing wrong with depicting sex. It's sex, not the plans on how to build an H-Bomb.

Depends upon whose sister is involved.

[SirShreK]

SirOccam wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

ESRB ratings dude!

You can not portray full nudity with M... Only implicit sexual content or partial nudity (mostly either sidebood I think).

*facepalm*

Read it again. I'm NOT ASKING for full nudity.

Err... then you got to qualify even partial nudity. Showing breasts or behinds is also Adult rated  IIRC.

E.g. the Witcher Cards. They did self-censor themselves, but there was a debate if the uncensored version should be adult rated (was it? I think it was...).

If that's true, then I think that's ridiculous. M is 17+, same as rated R movies. But regardless, it doesn't matter because I was not even asking for partial nudity. All I'm asking for is that they lose the lame censorship. That's not the same as asking for nudity. I have said repeatedly that no nudity is perfectly fine if they can still make the scene compelling. If they can't figure out a way to do that without resorting to granny panties, then I'd rather they just not try, and do a FTB. I have confidence in them, though; I think they can pull it off.

Simplified guide to ESRB ratings... .This should make things clear.. Harmony restored in the Galaxy!

[Onyx Jaguar]

No you are completely wrong



You can show ****** and even full frontal Male nudity in a M rated game