100 réponses à ce sujet

[Inside_Joke]

Who plays games for consistency?

*I'm joking, don't hurt me!*



I do like some of the auras, others were ... a little too distracting.

There were a couple from Awakening that made sounds, correct? *Along with the glow* Now that I could do without.

[the_one_54321]

If they are meant just to inform the player that the ability is active then they should be less flashy. A simple colored circle would do. If they are made so flashy because that is supposed to be how they really look in the game world then they should always be there so long as the spell is active, even in conversation.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

If they are meant just to inform the player that the ability is active then they should be less flashy.

Agreed.

If all they are in a UI element then they should be less intrusive.  A small icon next to the character portrait would do nicely.

If they are made so flashy because that is supposed to be how they really look in the game world then they should always be there so long as the spell is active, even in conversation.

This is exactly my point.

BioWare can't have it both ways without looking silly.

[J-Reyno]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That's an argument to eliminate or tone down the VFX - not to break the setting by having them pop in and out nonsensically.

I both agree and disagree. It depends on the situation.

In the same way it isn't absurd for people to take off their sunglasses while inside of a building, a mage removing glowing effects while attempting to have a normal conversation would not only be normal/accepted, but appreciated.

*Mage walks up with Shining Aura activated*  "Hey Bud!"

*Bud squints*  "Uhh can you turn the lights off, please?"

I mean, really.  It's distracting.  Some people may even be wary of you.  Sure, Bioware is assuming that your character is one to care about these things (if you want to think of it that way) but the reverse is to have unrealistic reactions to these effects.  I find that a little more nonsensical than the reverse.  

On the other hand, I do think there would be some situations where auras could remain, like cutscenes during tense or battle-oriented situations.  Just because I'm technically not fighting doesn't mean I'm not on my guard, so naturally I wouldn't "disarm" myself.  I doubt BioWare would bother with such intricacy, though.

On a personal level, I dislike auras all around and would keep them off at all times (including battle) if I had the option.  This is because I generally don't care for magical-looking effects on non-magical classes.  I'm okay with auras for mages.  

[DTKT]

Jesus no.



I'm totally with Bioware here, it simply made you look incredibly stupid when talking to people.



I wished that you could disable them in DAO!

[the_one_54321]

Reyno411 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That's an argument to eliminate or tone down the VFX - not to break the setting by having them pop in and out nonsensically.

I both agree and disagree. It depends on the situation.

In the same way it isn't absurd for people to take off their sunglasses while inside of a building, a mage removing glowing effects while attempting to have a normal conversation would not only be normal/accepted, but appreciated.

*Mage walks up with Shining Aura activated*  "Hey Bud!"

*Bud squints*  "Uhh can you turn the lights off, please?"

I mean, really.  It's distracting.  Some people may even be wary of you.  Sure, Bioware is assuming that your character is one to care about these things (if you want to think of it that way) but the reverse is to have unrealistic reactions to these effects.  I find that a little more nonsensical than the reverse. 

That's all great, so long as stamina and modifiers are equally effected. Consider the conversation with Ser Cauthrien for example. If those VFX got shut down during the convo, then the abilities were shut down, then when she attacks you you have no buffs and need to recast.

[J-Reyno]

the_one_54321 wrote...

That's all great, so long as stamina and modifiers are equally effected. Consider the conversation with Ser Cauthrien for example. If those VFX got shut down during the convo, then the abilities were shut down, then when she attacks you you have no buffs and need to recast.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  If you're saying that modifiers should be removed along with the VFX... then I disagree.  *shrug*  I'm only talking about the visual aspect here.

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That's an argument to eliminate or tone down the VFX - not to break the setting by having them pop in and out nonsensically.

They are being toned down.

And you're turning them off when you speak to someone. Simple as that, and a lot less weird situations to try and contend with when it comes to making the conversations look passably good.

In this case, while I get your pedantic desire to make everything consistent no matter how bizarre it might look there are simply a lot less negatives in turning them off for conversations-- and a toggle is not the answer to every issue, especially when it offers so little benefit. So I'll just leave it at that.

Modifié par David Gaider, 30 septembre 2010 - 09:23 .

[the_one_54321]

David Gaider wrote...
They are being toned down.

And you're turning them off when you speak to someone. Simple as that, and a lot less weird situations to try and contend with when it comes to making the conversations look passably good.

Well it's cool that they're being toned down then. But, at least in my case, it's not a pendantic desire for consistency. Consider the issue in movies where "look in one frame there's a cut on her hand, and in the next frame it's gone! Continuity error!" That kind of stuff bothers some people as much having flashy visuals during a conversation does. Personally, I'm of the mind that you would have been better suited to have just toned them down, instead of also turning them off during conversations.

[Brockololly]

What I want to know is whether or not the vanilla DA2 will have a toggle to have the helmets/headgear invisible?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Brockololly wrote...

What I want to know is whether or not the vanilla DA2 will have a toggle to have the helmets/headgear invisible?

/cosigned

[Felfenix]

This is like asking for numbers to pop up when characters fight in cutscenes. "How come it didn't say how much damage Duncan took!?"

[Amioran]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
What you're referring to is my assertion that the Rogues looking invisible doesn't mean that they are invisible.

As always your logic works only for what you want it to work, not anything else. You, in fact, are saying that rogues are not really invisible when they are sneaking (rightly so) so others could look at them in conversations. I don't see why then you think VFX any different. Actually there's no logic at all on this. VFX are just indications of a certain "behaviour", but not the real status of the character, so others cannot (or shouldn't) see the same, same as the "invisibility" of a rogue. Naturally there could be cases where the VFX really represents that status, as for example a character being really invisible and the VFX associated to it, but that would mean tailoring specific VFX to work in specific manners, a lot of work, and anyway it is not written anywhere in no rules that the character cannot "toggle" the same for a while to talk to others (that actually would be the most logic thing to do if you are really invisible, don't you think?).

Toning down is all another thing, but don't talk please about consistency because your logic is already inconsistent to begin with. VFX (in the majority of cases, more so for DAO and I think also DA2) are just like the UI, graphical representations of a certain behaviour being applied (or informations about the same) to let the players know what is happening, not what is really happening. In older games conversations were not cinematic, so there was no reason to disassociate the graphical representation with "reality". So, as you can see, the examples you did make before (of older games and their behaviours) have nothing to do with the problem at hand, not they should be taken as examples of anything.

If you want to use logic, at last use it well, or don't use it at all.

Modifié par Amioran, 30 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[Faz432]

DTKT wrote...

Jesus no.

I'm totally with Bioware here, it simply made you look incredibly stupid when talking to people.

I wished that you could disable them in DAO!

Personal Annoyance Remover




*edit that mod hasn't been updated since January, so I wouldn't recommend using it now.

Modifié par Faz432, 30 septembre 2010 - 09:49 .

[1varangian]

I really wish they would take a very minimalistic approach to sustainable VFX. I don't mind Arcane Shield or something that makes sense having a visual effect. But Threaten, Rally, Bardsong etc. could just be icons somewhere on the screen. Better yet, those abilities could actually have animation and sound to represent them properly instead of sparkles and auras.

And even the sustainables that clearly should have visual representation should always be non-obtrusive. E.g. Arcane Shield was pretty good but Fade Shield was just a horrible obscuring mess.

So to conclude - I would also like the VFX to be consistent, instead of popping on and off. But I would like them to be so tastefully made that it doesn't matter that they are on during cutscenes or dialogue.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have an OFF toggle during dialogue and cutscenes to do it yourself if they look too obtrusive.

Modifié par 1varangian, 30 septembre 2010 - 09:48 .

[Anarya]

Ah. Somehow I thought that Ultima IV would be near the top of your list.



Well anyway I personally am very glad to see the effects during cutscenes go. So many screenshots ruined ;_;

[Withidread]

David Gaider wrote...

And you're turning them off when you speak to someone. Simple as that, and a lot less weird situations to try and contend with when it comes to making the conversations look passably good.

I may be silly for asking this, but, do you mean turning off VFX or turning off the abilities that cause them? Small, but rather important distinction. Turning off the abilities every time you talk to someone could get a bit frustrating.

[Faz432]

1varangian wrote...

I really wish they would take a very minimalistic approach to sustainable VFX. I don't mind Arcane Shield or something that makes sense having a visual effect. But Threaten, Rally, Bardsong etc. could just be icons somewhere on the screen. Better yet, those abilities could actually have animation and sound to represent them properly instead of sparkles and auras.

And even the sustainables that clearly should have visual representation should always be non-obtrusive. E.g. Arcane Shield was pretty good but Fade Shield was just a horrible obscuring mess.

So to conclude - I would also like the VFX to be consistent, instead of popping on and off. But I would like them to be so tastefully made that it doesn't matter that they are on during cutscenes or dialogue.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have an OFF toggle during dialogue and cutscenes to do it yourself if they look too obtrusive.

I agree

You explained it better than I did.

Modifié par Faz432, 30 septembre 2010 - 10:11 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

They are being toned down.

And that's good news.  UI elements shouldn't be so overwhelming.

So UI designer would ever do that with a button or a frame, so why do it with VFX?

I do wonder how much influence your UI designers have over these VFX decisions, given that they are primarily UI elements.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Amioran wrote...

As always your logic works only for what you want it to work, not anything else. You, in fact, are saying that rogues are not really invisible when they are sneaking (rightly so) so others could look at them in conversations. I don't see why then you think VFX any different. Actually there's no logic at all on this. VFX are just indications of a certain "behaviour", but not the real status of the character, so others cannot (or shouldn't) see the same, same as the "invisibility" of a rogue.

Sure.  But given that, does that UI element need to be so big and distracting?  The VFX obscure large portions of the game window.  No other UI element would do that, so why do the VFX?

[Braag]

Yes, it makes more sense that after a battle cutscene rolls where people are calmly talking to each other WHILE ON FIRE!!

[Sylvius the Mad]

If sustainable abilities are actually turned off or dialogue and cutscenes, that would be fine. Better, even, given how sustainable abilities reserve stamina/mana.

If I'm having a conversation that, when complete, immediately triggers a battle, I'd rather start that battle without any sustainables up.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If I'm having a conversation that, when complete, immediately triggers a battle, I'd rather start that battle without any sustainables up.

That's just silly from a tactical standpoint, and I'm even talking role playing here. My sustainables were always set to autocast in my tactics. Even in towns. And it never bothered me that I'd see them in conversation. They were up as a matter of prudence. Everyone and their mom was trying to kill me. I wasn't about to take chances.