148 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

shootist70 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...


I am sick and tired of everything being called social commentary just because the main race has flaws.

Then stick your head in a box and never read, watch or play anything ever again. Well, apart from kids TV. You might be ok with that if you just can't do 'social commentary' . It's pretty much what fiction was created for, and has been doing ever since - it's how we make sense of ourselves.

No. You can write something without it having to be a metaphor for anything.

[AlexXIV]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...


I am sick and tired of everything being called social commentary just because the main race has flaws.

Then stick your head in a box and never read, watch or play anything ever again. Well, apart from kids TV. You might be ok with that if you just can't do 'social commentary' . It's pretty much what fiction was created for, and has been doing ever since - it's how we make sense of ourselves.

No. You can write something without it having to be a metaphor for anything.

For example 'I like cheese' ... oh wait.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Khraum wrote...

I'm not saying that DA shouldn't have a social message, or that it should make humans look good, but that it should do it in a less cliched fashion. I mean look at Battlestar Galactica (the new story). It explore issues such as terrorism, use of torture and limits of democracy, genocide and religious/ethnic conflicts, but wrapped them into a distinct storyline that didn't copy from the real world.

MEh..I found the show boring and pretentious.

[Anarya]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Khraum wrote...

I'm not saying that DA shouldn't have a social message, or that it should make humans look good, but that it should do it in a less cliched fashion. I mean look at Battlestar Galactica (the new story). It explore issues such as terrorism, use of torture and limits of democracy, genocide and religious/ethnic conflicts, but wrapped them into a distinct storyline that didn't copy from the real world.

MEh..I found the show boring and pretentious.

Yeah well, that's just like...your opinion, man.

Modifié par Anarya, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:12 .

[Khraum]

Modifié par Khraum, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:29 .

[Gabey5]

the humans and elves fought a great war and the humans were victorious. If it had been the otehr way around we would be slaves

[tmp7704]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A better examples would be the massacre of the Cadash Thaig, where dwarves massacred the locals and the elven refugees there.

I never did anything with Shale yet beyond activation and prompt split afterwards once, and my Witch Hunt DLC is waiting to be played too, so i had no idea about that one

[Wulfram]

Gabey5 wrote...

the humans and elves fought a great war and the humans were victorious. If it had been the otehr way around we would be slaves

We would more likely be dead.  Humans mess with Elven immortality - or so the elves believe - so they wouldn't be interested in keeping us around as slaves.

[Saibh]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...


I am sick and tired of everything being called social commentary just because the main race has flaws.

Then stick your head in a box and never read, watch or play anything ever again. Well, apart from kids TV. You might be ok with that if you just can't do 'social commentary' . It's pretty much what fiction was created for, and has been doing ever since - it's how we make sense of ourselves.

No. You can write something without it having to be a metaphor for anything.

Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

[lv12medic]

Saibh wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...


I am sick and tired of everything being called social commentary just because the main race has flaws.

Then stick your head in a box and never read, watch or play anything ever again. Well, apart from kids TV. You might be ok with that if you just can't do 'social commentary' . It's pretty much what fiction was created for, and has been doing ever since - it's how we make sense of ourselves.

No. You can write something without it having to be a metaphor for anything.

Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

Hah!  Sounds like AP English all over again.

Book: "There is a box in the corner"
Me:  "There is a box in the corner"
Teacher: "The box in the corner represents the oppressive realities of orphaned kids in 1890's New York City"
Me:  "...":huh:

[Burdokva]

Well, count me evil then, but Dragon Age is one the few fantasy settings that lets me vent my dislike for the elves. Even when I play a good guy, a sometimes find it hard to resist oppressing them. Just for fun, because I'm tired of the majority of fantasy settings (be they games, books, movies) always portraying elves as beautiful, wise, powerful... *insert blah*... compared to us, disgusting humans.

[shootist70]

Saibh wrote...

Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

Is quoting TVTropes now a trope? Or maybe it's just a meme...

Anyway, as far as subtexts go, they're always there. Even when a creator is trying to keep any such content out they'll still let their cultural perspective show. It's just the way it goes. Best way to deal with it is to accept it and shape it the way you want it go, and not leave it in the minds of others to do it for you.

Modifié par shootist70, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:10 .

[Fishy]

Burdokva wrote...

Well, count me evil then, but Dragon Age is one the few fantasy settings that lets me vent my dislike for the elves. Even when I play a good guy, a sometimes find it hard to resist oppressing them. Just for fun, because I'm tired of the majority of fantasy settings (be they games, books, movies) always portraying elves as beautiful, wise, powerful... *insert blah*... compared to us, disgusting humans.

So you have an inferiority complex

Modifié par Suprez30, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:08 .

[Davasar]

"Why are Humans so Evil?"



Because in DA2, Hawke will be leading the humans of Kirkwall.



Therefore, they will be doing horrible things to everyone else that isnt human.



This will be Hawkes legacy: The murderous Tyrant of Kirkwall.



Caligula, Nero, Caracalla and Commodus will have a new member in their Fraternity of Evil, Terrible Rulers.

[Maverick827]

shootist70 wrote...

Anyway, as far as subtexts go, they're always there. Even when a creator is trying to keep any such content out they'll still let their cultural perspective show. It's just the way it goes.

Social commentary, by definition, is an active thing.  It is written with a specific intent to rebel against a certain social perception.  It is undeniable and requires no conjecture to prove its existence.

When you specifically look for social commentary and settle on an author's "cultural perspective" passively showing, then that is not social commentary.  That is merely the way in which all authors who have ever authored author their authorial works.

[Bryy_Miller]

shootist70 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

Is quoting TVTropes now a trope? Or maybe it's just a meme...

Anyway, as far as subtexts go, they're always there. Even when a creator is trying to keep any such content out they'll still let their cultural perspective show. It's just the way it goes. Best way to deal with it is to accept it and shape it the way you want it go, and not leave it in the minds of others to do it for you.

If they don't intend for it to be there, then it's simply your interpretation. 

[SnakeStrike8]

Humans are always evil. We might not be intentionally evil, but we still do evil stuff, like rape the planet we live on, push aside other animal species at our convenience and do other generally nasty things- to each other, no less!

Humans in Thedas are no different, so I see it. Most of the 'evil' they cause isn't intentional (the Tevinter mages didn't know they'd be unleashing the bubonic plague/Veronica virus when they tried to go to the Black City, slavery really isn't all that evil (it only is if you deliberately abuse your slaves for kicks) and not every human noble in Fereldan goes around raping elves. Some do. Most don't.

[Jestina]

I wonder if human tastes like nug. I guess we squish one and find out.

[Daewan]

Someone tried to make a game once where Humans were the saviors and shiny good people of the galaxy. No one bought the game. It had an awesome soundtrack, though.

[Jestina]

Daewan wrote...
Someone tried to make a game once where Humans were the saviors and shiny good people of the galaxy.

Are you describing the ME series?

[Saibh]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Humans are always evil. We might not be intentionally evil, but we still do evil stuff, like rape the planet we live on, push aside other animal species at our convenience and do other generally nasty things- to each other, no less!

Huh.

Really.

Because, you know, I know some humans. Actually, I know quite a few humans. They're pretty okay. I call them "friends". You may speak for yourself.

Jestina wrote...

Daewan wrote...
Someone tried to make a game once where Humans were the saviors and shiny good people of the galaxy.

Are you describing the ME series?

Never played Renegade, right? I'm kidding, I'm kidding!

Modifié par Saibh, 01 octobre 2010 - 07:54 .

[Bryy_Miller]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Humans are always evil. We might not be intentionally evil, but we still do evil stuff, like rape the planet we live on, push aside other animal species at our convenience and do other generally nasty things- to each other, no less!

I didn't know that survival was evil.

[JrayM16]

Almost every piece of acclaimed fiction in any medium is a metaphor or symbol for something. It's just that the best ones do it with alot more subtlety than stuff like DA:O's allegories to humans doing bad stuff.



Take Moby Dick for example. Most people who read it probably won't realize that it's a metaphor for what the author perceived as the uncontrollable expansion of capitalism. Or how the Godfather movies are metaphors for the disfunctional state of government during the mid-1900s. How about Citizen Kane's allegory to the way American culture often stunted youth and potential. I could go on.

[aaniadyen]

JrayM16 wrote...

Almost every piece of acclaimed fiction in any medium is a metaphor or symbol for something. It's just that the best ones do it with alot more subtlety than stuff like DA:O's allegories to humans doing bad stuff.

Take Moby Dick for example. Most people who read it probably won't realize that it's a metaphor for what the author perceived as the uncontrollable expansion of capitalism. Or how the Godfather movies are metaphors for the disfunctional state of government during the mid-1900s. How about Citizen Kane's allegory to the way American culture often stunted youth and potential. I could go on.

I could never help but feel as though they'd reach more people if they just said it instead of carefully writing a story that has nothing to do with it, but is supposed to symbolize it in some way.

[Bryy_Miller]

That wouldn't be very creative, would it? I mean, seriously, that would be a horrible story. If something is symbolic, it's supposed to make you think by being non-obtrusive to the plot as a whole.