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[Nightwriter]

Whatever.



And a staff. A nice white staff, and a white horse. I'll take those too.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter wrote...

Whatever.



And a staff. A nice white staff, and a white horse. I'll take those too.

Six inches, or closer to twelve? 

[Nightwriter]

I said a staff, not a silly little wand.

[jbblue05]

Ieldra2 wrote...

There are several threads about Cerberus already, but here's one thing I'd like to point out in an extra thread:

The term "terrorist" describes someone who uses acts of violence and destruction to inspire fear in a population (thus the term), trying to indimidate a poltical group or a nation into acceding to its demands. For this, acts of terrorism have to be high-profile. The more publicity, the better, and the targets are usually selected in order to maximize publicity. It's also important that the public comes to know which group is responsible.

Now, tell me, please, how that applies to Cerberus? Cerberus is a secret organization that does everything to cover up its actions and in spite of widespread influence behind the scenes, is almost unknown to the public. The "terrorism" term is stamped on them for purely political purposes. In fact, they're more of a conspiracy, acting behind the scenes to get influence unchecked by the Alliance's institutions.

So, people, know what you're talking about and stop rehashing the t-word as if it actually meant anything in this context. Cerberus may be an evil conspiracy with pretensions to galactic domination, or a regular black-ops organization necessary to protect humanity, or anything in between. But they're definitely not terrorists. That's Council propaganda and just plain wrong.

Agreed
If the Council claim that Cerberus are a bunch of cannibals a lot of people would believe them.
Batarians are terrorist not Cerberus
If anything the Council are Terrorists.

[Nightwriter]

"... in 2165, terrorists stole antimatter from the SSV Geneva, the sole figure arrested named his sponsor 'Cerberus'. Throughout the 2160s and 2170s, alleged Cerberus agents assassinated politicians, sabotaged starships bearing eezo, and conducted nightmarish experiments on aliens and humans."

There you go. I'm guessing this has something to do with their in-game terrorist designation. They did it to themselves.

I think you can only do so much of this kind of stuff before people start throwing the t-word around. Doing dangerous, radical, extremist things that inspire fear in people is going to lead to this word, correct or not.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if many people in the Mass Effect universe thought of Shepard as a terrorist.

[Asheer_Khan]

www.youtube.com/watch


This is how renegade pro cerberus  ME 3 should end...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 01 octobre 2010 - 03:38 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch


This is how renegade pro cerberus  ME 3 should end...

As long as it's the other council races homeplanets then I agree.

[Asheer_Khan]

Lizardviking wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch


This is how renegade pro cerberus  ME 3 should end...

As long as it's the other council races homeplanets then I agree.

No, this will be earth blown up Turians before reaper even reach outskirts of MW.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch


This is how renegade pro cerberus  ME 3 should end...

As long as it's the other council races homeplanets then I agree.

No, this will be earth blown up Turians before reaper even reach outskirts of MW.

Nah.

Pro-human pro-Cerberus ending= Reapers destroyed and the rest of the races are brought in line by the use of force and supiorior technolgy, resulting in a human ruled galaxy. And if we're lucky, then TIM will be leading it (it's for the best).

[jbblue05]

Nightwriter wrote...

"... in 2165, terrorists stole antimatter from the SSV Geneva, the sole figure arrested named his sponsor 'Cerberus'. Throughout the 2160s and 2170s, alleged Cerberus agents assassinated politicians, sabotaged starships bearing eezo, and conducted nightmarish experiments on aliens and humans."

There you go. I'm guessing this has something to do with their in-game terrorist designation. They did it to themselves.

I think you can only do so much of this kind of stuff before people start throwing the t-word around. Doing dangerous, radical, extremist things that inspire fear in people is going to lead to this word, correct or not.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if many people in the Mass Effect universe thought of Shepard as a terrorist.

In 2165 Cerberus didn't officially go "rogue" from the Alliance and the SSV Geneva is an alliance ship.   Sounds like a cover-up by the Alliance.

You think the Alliance had nothing to do behind the sabatoged starships of eezo.  Judging by the Ascension Program and BaAT the Alliance was eager for Biotics in the military..

Project Trapdoor was the only experiment on aliens and it isn't widely known it was just a few asari captives and Cerberus got results.

Cerberus assasinations aren't widely known to the public.

If anything this proves the Alliance was building up Cerberus as an terrorist anti-alien organization to make nice with the Council

[Giggles_Manically]

If in ME3 they say Cerberus is the Alliance or they were part of it, I dont think many people will be surprised.

[Zulu_DFA]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If in ME3 they say Cerberus is the Alliance or they were part of it, I dont think many people will be surprised.

Rear Admiral Kahoku already said so: Cerberus is an Alliance black ops division that's gone rogue.

Corroborating info: Admiral Hackett calls Akuze an "Alliance project" and Dr. Wayne and his collegues "Alliance scientists". It happens before you meet Cpl. Toombs and he tells you about the Cerberus involvement.

Logs in the "Rachni station" refer to the project supervisor as "the General". Last I checked, there weren't much bothering about military rank within Cerberus itself.

The only question that has remained unanswered despite its critical importance to the subject is:

WHEN & WHY DID CERBERUS ACTUALLY GO ROGUE???

[philiposophy]

When exactly Cerberus went rogue isn't really that important, imo.

It seems they were always fairly autonomous and even after breaking away, TIM still pulls strings in the Alliance and has important people in his pocket.

[Funkcase]

Shandepared wrote...

They sound like freedom fighters to me.

What freedom are they fighting for? Humanity has freedom, they are on the council for one.

[Zulu_DFA]

philiposophy wrote...

When exactly Cerberus went rogue isn't really that important, imo.

It is very important, because if you fail to provide the answer, the answer is "never".

Back on topic, however. How can Cerberus be truly terrorist, when they were spawned by the Alliance, and branded as terrorists by the same very Alliance back when they were definitely not rogue?

Even if some of their actions come across as terrorist, it can't change the nature of the organization - shadow ops outfit.

If anything, it's always a best tactic (next to framing an opponent) to show off and present a fake objective to conceal the real one. (Die Hard 1 comes to mind).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 octobre 2010 - 04:45 .

[mosor]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

philiposophy wrote...

When exactly Cerberus went rogue isn't really that important, imo.

It is very important, because if you fail to provide the answer, the answer is "never".

Back on topic, however. How can Cerberus be truly terrorist, when they were spawned by the Alliance, and branded as terrorists by the same very Alliance back when they were definitely not rogue?

Terrorist and rogue  is a brand applied to former  government supported groups when it becomes politically expedient. That happened when humanity tried to get a council seat. It wasn't their experiments, it's just politics.

[Zulu_DFA]

mosor wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

philiposophy wrote...

When exactly Cerberus went rogue isn't really that important, imo.

It is very important, because if you fail to provide the answer, the answer is "never".

Back on topic, however. How can Cerberus be truly terrorist, when they were spawned by the Alliance, and branded as terrorists by the same very Alliance back when they were definitely not rogue?

Terrorist and rogue  is a brand applied to former  government supported groups when it becomes politically expedient. That happened when humanity tried to get a council seat. It wasn't their experiments, it's just politics.

Well, and in this playing a pet "avowed enemy" the organization continues to serve the government even if solely in this new qualitty, making Kahoku's "completely rogue" assessment, er... not entirely correct.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

It isn't that easy:

(1) I do support the advancement of humanity by every possible definition *except*  the ones that include oppression of non-humans. Being politically more powerful than any other faction in the galaxy, however, is desirable.
(2) I do not support the torturing of children, forced implantation of Reaper tech, turning humans into Husks or similar things in order to further that goal.

Well your views are ten kinds of kickass. Why am I only discovering this now?

It's all the Miranda discussions, isn't it. We never think to talk about Cerberus.

The confusion may come because of my views on the Collector base. The Reaper threat changes the ethical considerations considerably. While there are many things I wouldn't do for the cause of human advancement, there aren't many I wouldn't do for the cause of survival. Cerberus is still not vindicated for what they did on Pragia and Chasca, but I actually would excuse using criminals for experiments with Reaper implants in the face of extinction.

[Nightwriter]

jbblue05 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

"... in 2165, terrorists stole antimatter from the SSV Geneva, the sole figure arrested named his sponsor 'Cerberus'. Throughout the 2160s and 2170s, alleged Cerberus agents assassinated politicians, sabotaged starships bearing eezo, and conducted nightmarish experiments on aliens and humans."

There you go. I'm guessing this has something to do with their in-game terrorist designation. They did it to themselves.

I think you can only do so much of this kind of stuff before people start throwing the t-word around. Doing dangerous, radical, extremist things that inspire fear in people is going to lead to this word, correct or not.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if many people in the Mass Effect universe thought of Shepard as a terrorist.

In 2165 Cerberus didn't officially go "rogue" from the Alliance and the SSV Geneva is an alliance ship.   Sounds like a cover-up by the Alliance.

You think the Alliance had nothing to do behind the sabatoged starships of eezo.  Judging by the Ascension Program and BaAT the Alliance was eager for Biotics in the military..

Project Trapdoor was the only experiment on aliens and it isn't widely known it was just a few asari captives and Cerberus got results.

Cerberus assasinations aren't widely known to the public.

If anything this proves the Alliance was building up Cerberus as an terrorist anti-alien organization to make nice with the Council

My friend, you either believe the Codex or you don't believe the Codex.

Either way, there's not much point for debate.

[mosor]

Nightwriter wrote...

My friend, you either believe the Codex or you don't believe the Codex.

Either way, there's not much point for debate.

The codex would be more believable if it didn't have so many inconsistentcies.

[Zulu_DFA]

mosor wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

My friend, you either believe the Codex or you don't believe the Codex.

Either way, there's not much point for debate.

The codex would be more believable if it didn't have so many inconsistentcies.

The Codex is written as an in-game document, compiled by the Alliance for its concerned personnel to catch up with the Galaxy. Hence it contains the common misconseptions about the Protheans and the Citadel, and calls the Reapers "a myth". Some articles unlocked during ME2 appear to be Cerberus written and presumably classified withing the organization (such as "Indoctrination", "Praetorian"). However most of the others are still Alliance propaganda, and that includes the ones under "Cerberus" and "TIM" entries.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Chasca

Chasca

[lovgreno]

It's hard to say much about Cerberus or TIMmy as we know very little about them. We can only speculate, in other words we see what we want to see. Just about everyone in the galaxy do think they are terrorists though so, where there is smoke there may very well be fire.



According to their own rather romantisised opinions they are rather the heroes of humanity. Real life terrorists have a tendency to be in no doubt of that they are doing the only possible thing for the greater good and that the end justifies the means. Another typical terrorist behaviour is self imposed isolation from what they belive is the stupid rest of society that don't know their superiour truth and therefore must be saved from themselves. Some people do like to feel superiour like that. Isolation and zeal is a dangerous combination. So yeah, you can find reasons to at least see terroristic tendencies in Cerberus if you want to. Or seeing them as heroes and realists if that is what you prefer, the world of Mass Effect isn't black and white like some old Bond movie.



There seems to be some kind of conspiracy backing Cerberus consisting of people like Mirandas rich father (wich is a bit worrying) but speculation is once more all we realy have.

[jbblue05]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Chasca

Chasca

Don't forget the MSV Cornucopia and the Derelict Reaper
further proof of Dragon's teeth can indoctrinate

edit: I read the entire thread nice theory

Modifié par jbblue05, 01 octobre 2010 - 06:08 .

[lovgreno]

Lizardviking wrote...

Pro-human pro-Cerberus ending= Reapers destroyed and the rest of the races are brought in line by the use of force and supiorior technolgy, resulting in a human ruled galaxy. And if we're lucky, then TIM will be leading it (it's for the best).

And then the next genophage hits humanity. Making enemies with everyone has always been a bad strategy in the ME universe as well as our real one. But I suppose concouring the galaxy can make you feel like more of a tough guy, even if it's just a game.