234 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Teknor wrote...

Of course they are terrorists. They deliberately exposed people to ezero just the get some biotic kids causing deaths and cancer in the process.

And how did that terrorize the populace and assist in pushing public policy towards a stated political goal?


Criminal =/= terrorist. All terrorists are criminals, but not all criminals are terrorists.

[Teknor]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And how did that terrorize the populace and assist in pushing public policy towards a stated political goal?

Criminal =/= terrorist. All terrorists are criminals, but not all criminals are terrorists.

Yeah my example didn't quite fit. How about publishing a hostile manifesto and perpetuating acts of violence and assasination on people who don't have the same agenda ? (Killing Menneau, Pope etc) Sure it is not mass terror and the common folk don't even know it but many people will now know better than crossing Cerberus because terror is instilled into their hearts and Cerberus' goals are closer to achieve.

Modifié par Teknor, 02 octobre 2010 - 07:48 .

[mosor]

Teknor wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And how did that terrorize the populace and assist in pushing public policy towards a stated political goal?

Criminal =/= terrorist. All terrorists are criminals, but not all criminals are terrorists.

Yeah my example didn't quite fit. How about publishing a hostile manifesto and perpetuating acts of violence and assasination on people who don't have the same agenda ? (Killing Menneau, Pope etc) Sure it is not mass terror and the common folk don't even know it but many people will now know better than crossing Cerberus because terror is instilled into their hearts and Cerberus' goals are closer to achieve.

A terrorist would have taken responsibilty for those acts in an effort to boost their fear factor and degrade public morale. Not keep it secret and make it look like natural causes.

Modifié par mosor, 02 octobre 2010 - 09:19 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Teknor wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And how did that terrorize the populace and assist in pushing public policy towards a stated political goal?

Criminal =/= terrorist. All terrorists are criminals, but not all criminals are terrorists.

Yeah my example didn't quite fit. How about publishing a hostile manifesto and perpetuating acts of violence and assasination on people who don't have the same agenda ? (Killing Menneau, Pope etc) Sure it is not mass terror and the common folk don't even know it but many people will now know better than crossing Cerberus because terror is instilled into their hearts and Cerberus' goals are closer to achieve.

Teknor, how does two old men dieing of natural causes terrorize the public against an unknown agency which  may not even have ever had a direct connection with just one of millions of writings and opinion pieces in the aftermath of the First Contact War?

[Arijharn]

Asheer_Khan wrote...
I was born in 1972 in country who witnessed final stage of "commie paradise" (Poland to be clear) so DONT YOU DARE to tell me that i have no idea how this world work.

I 'DARE' because everything you have ever said is in terms of the absolute. Everything is either black to you, or everything is completely white. What am I supposed to think? You state things like your ideal military strategy (well not really, but that's a past complaint) only to forget that military strategy is essentially to win and moral victories are essentially meaningless if you don't. Military strategy can not work on the assumption of 'saving everyone,' and I think if you do try too then you have something like a messiah complex. You can try to save most people you can, but that isn't the same thing.

Asheer_Khan wrote...
EDIT: By the way i really "admire" <_< way how cerberus supporters think.

On other side Jack is fantastic most powerful human biotic... but in moment when she dare to criticize cerberus beloved guru she become worthless trash.... amazing... really amazing way of thinking... so typical for ****** Sapiens Superior.<_<

Dean already brought this up, but it's my thought process as well. I don't fully trust TIM, but I don't fully trust everything that leaves Jack's mouth either, considering she is a criminal and honestly her past actions probably fit better into the established definitions of 'terrorism' then anything Cerberus has done.

I don't think anyone praises Jack for being a 'fantastic most powerful human biotic' though, but maybe I haven't read the same threads as you.

Modifié par Arijharn, 03 octobre 2010 - 01:47 .

[General User]

I’m not sure Cerberus really fits into any of the three main categories: criminals/terrorists/conspiracy. One of the things I like about Cerberus is that they seem to be very much an animal of the late 22nd century and have no exact early 21st century equivalent. Of the three I’d say conspiracy or even secret society fits best, but there are elements of all three and others besides (corporation, political party).

Yeah, Secret Society of Cerberus.  I like it, Ima stick with that.

Modifié par General User, 03 octobre 2010 - 01:27 .

[Schneidend]

Secret society with extreme methods, as General User says. The term "terrorist" is just as loaded and politically charged a word in the ME universe as it is in ours. It's propaganda.

[Nightwriter]

You can only do so much and still expect people to show the consideration to observe the correct Merriam-Webster definitions of their criticisms.

Basically, I do not think the term is technically correct, but I do think Cerberus has earned it, and has no ultimate right to act surprised or offended.

Since I have never seen Cerberus act surprised or offended, this is perfectly okay.

[HazelrahFiver]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...
Of course they are terrorists. They deliberately exposed people to ezero just the get some biotic kids causing deaths and cancer in the process.[/quote]And how did that terrorize the populace and assist in pushing public policy towards a stated political goal?[/quote]

Can we make one thing clear?  There does not have to be any politics involved when dealing with terrorism.  Religious terrorism is quite prevelant these days and a far more frightening thing.  Those terrorists will not necessarily claim their killings and make sure the masses are aware of it, that happens more so these days because of the media.  It is definitely more about the slaying of those that disagree with their beliefs.

Also, can we please stop calling it the T-word?  It's terrorism, or terrorists.  Let's not hide.

[HazelrahFiver]

General User wrote...
Yeah, Secret Society of Cerberus.  I like it, Ima stick with that.

I like that as well.  It fits far better than conspiracy.

[Christmas Ape]

While I suppose that's accurate, I do prefer the sound of "cabal". It just rolls off the tongue.

[Arijharn]

cabal sounds more insidious. Lets petition BioWare to change it asap?!

[Dean_the_Young]

HazelrahFiver wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Of course they are terrorists. They deliberately exposed people to ezero just the get some biotic kids causing deaths and cancer in the process.

And how did that terrorize the populace and assist in pushing public policy towards a stated political goal?

Can we make one thing clear?  There does not have to be any politics involved when dealing with terrorism.  Religious terrorism is quite prevelant these days and a far more frightening thing.  Those terrorists will not necessarily claim their killings and make sure the masses are aware of it, that happens more so these days because of the media.  It is definitely more about the slaying of those that disagree with their beliefs.

Also, can we please stop calling it the T-word?  It's terrorism, or terrorists.  Let's not hide.

Religious terrorism these days is largely political: the religious motivation doesn't disguise or negate the political goals of those acting it. I'm frankly confused how you even think the two are distinctly separate in the first place, given how openly most terrorist groups admit that their goals are also political, such as building an ideal state that matches their ideology.

Now, would you not dodge the question?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 03 octobre 2010 - 01:50 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Arijharn wrote...

cabal sounds more insidious. Lets petition BioWare to change it asap?!

Make a thread.

And then give me credit for supplying the proper word. Or else.

[Atmosfear3]

Cerberus is a clandestine organization with their own agenda. Not terrorists, not freedom fighters. They don't use acts of terror and publicly acknowledge the populace of their existence. They are not freedom fighters because they are not operating to free humanity from anything.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, the spectre of foreign (alien) domination and threats. Given the number of foreign aliens who have tried to subjugate, dominate, remove, abduct, or exterminate Humanity, that's not even a unfounded fear.

[Cryo84]

Frankly, I don't understand the hate for Cerberus. No one is perfect and everyone has used drastic measures to hold even worse things at bay.



Let's not forget everyone, Cerberus was right about the Collectors when everyone else in the galaxy felt content to leave heads in the sand.

[Elite Midget]

Did you play ME1? The did horrible things throughout the whole game and even hunted down a top military official and used him as a test subject to see if their Rachnii were good enough to be used as shock troopers. Than there are the Thorian experiments that ended with a whole colony wiped out, the Rachnii infested space station, and tests on seeing what would happen if you inject toxic blood into humans. Than there's Jack and the dialect Reaper...



When an operation goes bad TIM saves face by saying they had 'gone rogue' even though he ordered them to carry such things out and funded them fully as long as results came in.



If that isn't a shady organization than I don't know what is.

[AlexMBrennan]

The Thorian business on Nodacrux was ExoGeni

[Elite Midget]

Cerberus still had Thorian servants under their controll as well at that one base.

[Dean_the_Young]

Elite Midget wrote...

Did you play ME1? The did horrible things throughout the whole game and even hunted down a top military official and used him as a test subject to see if their Rachnii were good enough to be used as shock troopers. Than there are the Thorian experiments that ended with a whole colony wiped out, the Rachnii infested space station, and tests on seeing what would happen if you inject toxic blood into humans. Than there's Jack and the dialect Reaper...

When an operation goes bad TIM saves face by saying they had 'gone rogue' even though he ordered them to carry such things out and funded them fully as long as results came in.

If that isn't a shady organization than I don't know what is.

When has Cerberus's status as a criminal organization been contested?

[Elite Midget]

Never... I wasen't argueing that they were terrorist. I'm with them being Criminals that have commited many heinous crimes over the years. The word terrorist is propoganda to spure more outrage against them with the least bit of effort.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Tag words to rally the populace.



"When an operation goes bad TIM saves face by saying they had 'gone rogue' even though he ordered them to carry such things out and funded them fully as long as results came in."



This has been proven to not always be the case (if ever it was).

[Mr. Man]

social.bioware.com/1575943/polls/11533/

Let's see your opinions on ME3

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Earth easily