234 réponses à ce sujet

[Arijharn]

Elite Midget wrote...
But wouldn't his actions still be politicial in that it's meant to push humanity up the food chain in the Universe? Didn't he say that when Cerberus benefits than so does humanity? Wouldn't it work the other way around as well?

Ahh, I see where you're coming from. I suppose strictly speaking you'd be right. However, Cerberus isn't gaining anything in either the Alliance political arena or in Council space's political arena. If what you're saying is true, wouldn't that be a sense of altruism?

Elite Midget wrote...
As for my thoughts on TIM... I get that he wants Humanity on top but the way Cerberus ignores Aliens, unless they can be used for his agenda, gives off the feeling that he doesn't want aliens to ever be a threat to humanity's dominance. Thus the only way this would work is if humanity is the sole leader and Aliens are only there to serve the human agenda.

I agree that TIM doesn't want aliens to ever be a threat to humanity, but he's shown great willingness to otherwise co-operate fully with other species, such as Liara, such as Aria, Mistress Treilana (*cough*), the 'specialist' late additions to the crew of SR-2 as well. Furthermore, I think he's quite wise enough to realise that we can't just 'shut out' the other species and that co-existence will go on for a very long time (well beyond his lifespan at least), so I think he would understand that humanity would lose far more than it would ever gain by becoming the sole leader (although he would be capitalizing on the event if Shephard made the decision for him in saving or damning the Council in ME1) or by otherwise adversely rocking the boat.

I remember that in the codex it's mentioned I think under one of the Council races that they recognize that they'd lose far more than they'd gain if they turned on each other, I think that with humanity's introduction to that Council (and probably beforehand) TIM would also realise this. I say this because the game has generally tried to shown every character at least somewhat morally ambiguous (I think the one exception I can think of would be Nassana Dantius) and beliefs to be realistic (Samara on how the Justicar code isn't to bring spiritual enlightenment, but rather as to punish the wicked... she acknowledges to me at least that there are always differences of opinion and life can be hard, especially with her line of "If I must kill a man because I have seen him do wrong, do I really want to know that he's a devoted father?")

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Elite Midget wrote...

I find it hard to believe that such a smart and manipulative man could be ignorant to the fact that he has had so many rogue cells running amoke and that he didn't know things were happening. I mean, how does rounding up kids, without their parents knowledgeing by faking their deaths, and then taking them to a secret location, outside the law, and conducting experiments on them not unethical? If TIM cared he would never have let that happen. Ergo, TIM doesn't care and thus he allows them to happen untill they become more trouble than they're worth.

Like I said before, he may have provided the facility and and funding while leaving the cells to get the kids to experiment with.  How the kids were actually gotten and how experiments were actually done would be left up to the cell leader.  Whether he just reports to TIM saying "It's done, beginning experiments" without saying "we faked the deaths of the kids and kidnapped them from their homes" is something that could be a different matter entirely.

Now don't get me started on the whole the ends justify the means because if you know our history than you would know that isn't true. I wont name a certian infamous man in history, because his name still strikes hatred in many, but he restored his country from nothing at the cost of millions of lives, a world war, and the mass murder of innocents.

Hitler probably.  Not all means can be justified, no matter what end you're seeking unless the end itself is evil.

Many said innocents were put under experiments 'VERY" similiar that Cerberus was caught doing in ME1 and ME2. Such as having subjects fight eachother, injected with poisonous substances(Maybe to develop a resistence drug or see how much of the poison humans can take), ordering Rachnii, thorians, and the sort to kill humans/aliens to see how effective they would be as shock troopers, leading innocent Alliance soldiers into a Threasher Maw trap to study the Threasher Maw as well as cover up their operations.

Ah yes, scientific enhancers/drugs/medicine.  Pun aside, I could say that about any drug that wasn't developed properly (even ones that were oddly enough, there's always unexpected variables).  But besides that, again you list actions and not objectives.  TIM gives objectives.  Cell leaders determine and carry out actions to achieve that objective.

Also, you can't believe Miranda's word when she was argueing with Jack. She was covering Cerberus' rear and I doubt TIM ever told her about the Biotic experiment that occured. Which is why she's in denial and at a loss of words. It's been proven in ME2 that Miranda doesn't know everything that TIM has done, such as Horizon or Jacks torture and experimentation, yet she protects Cerberus because she thought of them as her own. Not to mention she thought she was above being a pawn TIM can use.

In some ways she is, as was anyone that defied TIM.  Plus she met TIM face to face... she could feasably kill him if she wanted to given the chance to.  So she has the right to feel a measure of control.  She wouldn't feel the way she did about the Collector Base for the sake of humanity and then cover up the torturing of kids for the sake of biotics.  If she was guilty she'd brush it off another way, she's too confident in Cerberus to hide something they really did, she'd try to justify it.  Case and point: putting a control chip inside of Shepard's brain.

Again, the technology in IIlos is still there and outside what the Reapers can control. While the Collector Base is fully in Reaper control up untill the end of ME2. Even than, the Reapers will have a copy of every piece of technology on the Collector Base anyways.

For some reason it seems like you're thinking Cerberus will take the tech right off the base's assembly line and pass it out to staff.  The key word TIM used was to "adapt" the technology.  He never said he was going to use the actual technology raw.  It has knowledge on how a Reaper is made which is far safer than studying a derelect Reaper (like they'd been doing).

On one hand credit is given to TIM as a calculating person yet on the other it's assumed he doesn't calculate.  Chances are it's the former and not the latter.  He's doing what he can while staying safely out of touch with anything he gets his hands into.  He gives simple objectives, the cell leaders (that's why cell leaders have to even be there) carry it out however they choose.

Cerberus has protocols that TIM sets up.  When those are broken, it can be possible that they're not TIM's fault.  Does TIM shy away from information gained from such means?  No... if they're evil or good, he wants his money's worth.  But that seems to be the extent of it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 04 octobre 2010 - 08:23 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Here's a video log from Jack's facility (Double Post I know):



A: "The Illusive Man requested operation logs again... he's getting suspicious.."



B: "When we get results he won't care what we did."



There's 2-fold implications there, first of all, operation logs being requested and being requested "again." This is further evidence that TIM only gives objectives but actual methods and actions are done by the cell leader. Also that the only way he knows what's going on is if they tell him. It also suggests that they could just show TIM the results and while sweeping operation logs under the rug (not so much that TIM would be okay with it if he saw the logs later.. they hid it from him for a reason after all).

[HazelrahFiver]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Here's a video log from Jack's facility (Double Post I know):

A: "The Illusive Man requested operation logs again... he's getting suspicious.."

B: "When we get results he won't care what we did."

There's 2-fold implications there, first of all, operation logs being requested and being requested "again." This is further evidence that TIM only gives objectives but actual methods and actions are done by the cell leader. Also that the only way he knows what's going on is if they tell him. It also suggests that they could just show TIM the results and while sweeping operation logs under the rug (not so much that TIM would be okay with it if he saw the logs later.. they hid it from him for a reason after all).

I suppose what you are saying here is true, and we should accept it because it's in the game.  The problem is that it is just entirely unbelievable.  As I said in some earlier post, for TIM not to be fully aware and having full reports sent to him of every action is preposterous.  In crappy convenience store chains people are being fired every day for meticulous and seemingly unimportant things compared to what happened with Jack (and the rest of the children.)  They lose their jobs for breaking tiny policies like counting a safe before the store is officially closed for crying out loud, or taking a smoke break without informing someone.  Everything, EVERYTHING, has to be fully logged and reported, both by hand and electronically, by every employee.  Cerberus is a bazillion dollar operation.  To be expected to believe that TIM doesn't know what is occuring, or at least inner-circle people that would immediately report to TIM, is laughable.

However, according to those quotes you posted that is what we are led to believe, ridiculous as it is.

[Sajuro]

Could it be that he is playing the scientists? Since TIM's weapon is information, it would seem out of character for him not to know what's going on in his cells at any time but he doesn't let the cell leaders know he knows so he can plausibly deny things.

[lovgreno]

Good point Sajuro, he even call himself The Illusive Man. Manipulating is what he does all the time.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Could it be that he is playing the scientists? Since TIM's weapon is information, it would seem out of character for him not to know what's going on in his cells at any time but he doesn't let the cell leaders know he knows so he can plausibly deny things.

It could also be TIM's playing with Shepard (or whoever would visit Teltin facility for that matter). Matter of fact is it doesn't matter. If the scientists thought that the best result would be achieved through such&such methods, TIM would approve them. It's good he had a traitor coming in handy for his Retribution experiments, but it's made clear that he wouldn't have put them on hold if he hadn't had one.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:00 .

[Dean_the_Young]

HazelrahFiver wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Here's a video log from Jack's facility (Double Post I know):

A: "The Illusive Man requested operation logs again... he's getting suspicious.."

B: "When we get results he won't care what we did."

There's 2-fold implications there, first of all, operation logs being requested and being requested "again." This is further evidence that TIM only gives objectives but actual methods and actions are done by the cell leader. Also that the only way he knows what's going on is if they tell him. It also suggests that they could just show TIM the results and while sweeping operation logs under the rug (not so much that TIM would be okay with it if he saw the logs later.. they hid it from him for a reason after all).

I suppose what you are saying here is true, and we should accept it because it's in the game.  The problem is that it is just entirely unbelievable.  As I said in some earlier post, for TIM not to be fully aware and having full reports sent to him of every action is preposterous.  In crappy convenience store chains people are being fired every day for meticulous and seemingly unimportant things compared to what happened with Jack (and the rest of the children.)  They lose their jobs for breaking tiny policies like counting a safe before the store is officially closed for crying out loud, or taking a smoke break without informing someone.  Everything, EVERYTHING, has to be fully logged and reported, both by hand and electronically, by every employee.  Cerberus is a bazillion dollar operation.  To be expected to believe that TIM doesn't know what is occuring, or at least inner-circle people that would immediately report to TIM, is laughable.

However, according to those quotes you posted that is what we are led to believe, ridiculous as it is.

Sure. If you're a public corporation subject togovernment fines for safety violations.

Cerberus also doesn't bother with red tape, nor is it a consumer supplier which must maintain quality standards for fear of government fines and shutdown. Meticulous paperwork is for those covering their asses from governments and lawyers, which Cerberus most certainly doesn't have to.

Even in actual businesses, it isn't the CEO's job to meticulously scan everything: that's for the lower and middle managers. Higher management sends down instructions, and gets summaries back up. In a cell-makeup organization, lower and middle management by necessity has to be part of the cell, and when they hide information and fabricate what they do send up, those reports they do send don't exactly admit to anything.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Think about it though, TIM sits in a chair at some remote place in the galaxy... how "can" he know things?

Answer: Other people have to tell him or give him access to the data. If those people forge reports (happens in the workplace all the time) then TIM would be unaware of any real problem.

Anybody remember Enron?


@Zulu_DFA, it's obvious that the Telten team got more desperate as experiments went on. They got more extreme with their efforts to get the results TIM wanted which correlates to another fact in the game:

~"Some were bought from poor families, others were kidnapped from colonies, but most of them came from batarian pirates."

One theory is that as the experiments went wrong, they kept the failures "off the books" so to speak and tried replacing their subjects as quickly and discreetly as possible... going to more illegal means to cover their mistakes.

Really, the only way TIM would be aware of anything is if he was there directly (which he never is).  He can place calls, but those calls don't have to be answered.  He can request reports, but those reports can be doctored. It doesn't matter how involved he wants to be... TIM is still sitting in that chair somewhere away from the action and the only way he'd know about the actions is if someone reported it to him.

That's one of Miranda's responsibilities btw, sending reports to TIM. He wouldn't need it if he already knew.
__________________________________________________________________________________

One more tidbit, Miranda is aware of the events that occured with Cerberus in ME1 and does answer Shepard's questions regarding them. She also cleary talks about the Telten facility.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:33 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

(Double Post again but this is their conversation:)

Shepard:  "I trust you but I don't trust Cerberus... your experiments cross the line"

Miranda:  "All the time, yes.  But I recall a Spectre who crossed a few lines hunting down Saren and the Geth."

Shepard:  "I saw your bases years ago, you were using Rachni, Thorian Creepers, even Husks to make your own army"

Miranda:  "The husks were already dead, the torian creatures were mindless, and rachni were abandoned once we understood their intelligence.

We weren't breeding an army, we were breeding expendable shock troops for high risk scenarios.  How many soldiers died in Saren's attack on Edin Prime?  How many would've lived if we had just a dozen Rachni soldiers on our side?"
//Paragon Rachni queen decision?

Shepard:  "What was Cerberus trying to prove by experimenting on children like Jack?"
Miranda:  "A mistake.  No Question.  Not Mine.  And one that was corrected once we discovered the extent of the experiments being performed."

One more quote (which further proves what I was saying before):

Miranda:  "Cerberus never tells me that something is impossible.  They give me my resources and say 'Do it'" 

That's the extent of it.  Cerberus says "Do it" while the rest is up to the cells.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Really, the only way TIM would be aware of anything is if he was there directly (which he never is).  He can place calls, but those calls don't have to be answered.  He can request reports, but those reports can be doctored. It doesn't matter how involved he wants to be... TIM is still sitting in that chair somewhere away from the action and the only way he'd know about the actions is if someone reported it to him.

It's not very complicated for a cabal's leader to be 100% informed of what's going on in every cell. He just has to have two plus independent sources updating him, and make sure they don't know each other / can't tell how many more informants Command has at their level.  Thus they will do their updating honestly, out of fear of any insincerity becoming immediately known to TIM. (Which raises the question of who else besides Miranda and EDI reports to TIM about everything going on the Normandy...)

[Dean_the_Young]

If you want to encourage a culture of paranoia and distrust, sure.



If you don't, and there are many reasons a secret society wants to have in-group trust be as strong as possible, then not really. And even 'independent' sources relies on that they, to, don't get turned: in the case of Teltin, we saw that both scientists and security were in on it.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Really, the only way TIM would be aware of anything is if he was there directly (which he never is).  He can place calls, but those calls don't have to be answered.  He can request reports, but those reports can be doctored. It doesn't matter how involved he wants to be... TIM is still sitting in that chair somewhere away from the action and the only way he'd know about the actions is if someone reported it to him.

It's not very complicated for a cabal's leader to be 100% informed of what's going on in every cell. He just has to have two plus independent sources updating him, and make sure they don't know each other / can't tell how many more informants Command has at their level.  Thus they will do their updating honestly, out of fear of any insincerity becoming immediately known to TIM. (Which raises the question of who else besides Miranda and EDI reports to TIM about everything going on the Normandy...)

This obviously wasn't the case though with Telten.

[Sajuro]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Think about it though, TIM sits in a chair at some remote place in the galaxy... how "can" he know things?

Answer: Other people have to tell him or give him access to the data. If those people forge reports (happens in the workplace all the time) then TIM would be unaware of any real problem.

If you proclaim your weapon is information, you should have people that are either loyal enough or fear you enough to not forge reports and give you good information. I would expect the leaders of the Cells to forge reports since Cerberus is full of people who don't trust each other, but it would be stupid of TIM not to outfit facilities with bugs and cameras (as well as informents in the staff) that not even the Cell is aware that's all there. I don't really support the idea that TIM is an idiot since EDI did state that he wrote the program (or whatever) the picked up that the distress signal from the collector ship was fake and unless the message was "We are turians, we are not at all Collectors and this is not a trap" it takes a good bit of intelligence on his part. So, he should be smart enough to know that his people will lie to him and he A) bugs them and puts informants in with them or doesn't bother just so he can keep a clear mind. A) makes him an active accessory, that he continues to support such immoral projects; while is abhorrent because he gives people money, a deadline, then starts threatening them when they don't get results by the time he wakes up for a bagel in the morning and goes about his day assuming they won't do something drastic, or maybe he is counting on it.

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If you want to encourage a culture of paranoia and distrust, sure.

If you don't, and there are many reasons a secret society wants to have in-group trust be as strong as possible, then not really. And even 'independent' sources relies on that they, to, don't get turned: in the case of Teltin, we saw that both scientists and security were in on it.

Doesn't Jacob basically say that's what Cerberus is like (the paranoia and distrust)? And that is why you put mutiple sources and sources that can't get turned (bugs in the audio systems and video cameras) that way if your bugs start going dark then you can send it some military minded operatives to clear out the traitors.

[Elite Midget]

TIM did have the Normandy bugged and has cameras everywhere... Even Tali noticed the moment she stepped aboard the Normandy. Than there's always Kelly who keeps tabs on every crew member. I wouldn't be surprised if TIM didn't have her as another informant in the scenerio that EDI isn't reliable anymore. If he's going to take that much precausion with Shepard, who actually got to saw TIM, than don't you think he'll have even stricter tabs on his cells? After all, information and data is what he wants and I doubt he wouldn't make sure that he was getting the results he wanted.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...



Really, the only way TIM would be aware of anything is if he was there directly (which he never is). He can place calls, but those calls don't have to be answered. He can request reports, but those reports can be doctored. It doesn't matter how involved he wants to be... TIM is still sitting in that chair somewhere away from the action and the only way he'd know about the actions is if someone reported it to him.

It's not very complicated for a cabal's leader to be 100% informed of what's going on in every cell. He just has to have two plus independent sources updating him, and make sure they don't know each other / can't tell how many more informants Command has at their level. Thus they will do their updating honestly, out of fear of any insincerity becoming immediately known to TIM. (Which raises the question of who else besides Miranda and EDI reports to TIM about everything going on the Normandy...)

This obviously wasn't the case though with Telten.

Why not?



Experiment went bad. Primary subject excaped. What if that "If TIM knew..." log was fabriated, and put there by that very clean-up team, that supposedly failed to erase the place?

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Really, the only way TIM would be aware of anything is if he was there directly (which he never is). He can place calls, but those calls don't have to be answered. He can request reports, but those reports can be doctored. It doesn't matter how involved he wants to be... TIM is still sitting in that chair somewhere away from the action and the only way he'd know about the actions is if someone reported it to him.

It's not very complicated for a cabal's leader to be 100% informed of what's going on in every cell. He just has to have two plus independent sources updating him, and make sure they don't know each other / can't tell how many more informants Command has at their level. Thus they will do their updating honestly, out of fear of any insincerity becoming immediately known to TIM. (Which raises the question of who else besides Miranda and EDI reports to TIM about everything going on the Normandy...)

This obviously wasn't the case though with Telten.

Why not?

Experiment went bad. Primary subject excaped. What if that "If TIM knew..." log was fabriated, and put there by that very clean-up team, that supposedly failed to erase the place?

Or Scientist didn't know that TIM knew, it wasn't a magical exposition box, rather a log from one of the scientists. It wouldn't make sense for TIM to have a frabicated recording at an abandoned facility unless of course he sent Aresh who was actually a cerberus operative who hired bloodpack mercs to scour the ruins, acting crazy when Shepard and squad confronted him. That would also explain why he is older looking than Jack, but still far fetched.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Really, the only way TIM would be aware of anything is if he was there directly (which he never is). He can place calls, but those calls don't have to be answered. He can request reports, but those reports can be doctored. It doesn't matter how involved he wants to be... TIM is still sitting in that chair somewhere away from the action and the only way he'd know about the actions is if someone reported it to him.

It's not very complicated for a cabal's leader to be 100% informed of what's going on in every cell. He just has to have two plus independent sources updating him, and make sure they don't know each other / can't tell how many more informants Command has at their level. Thus they will do their updating honestly, out of fear of any insincerity becoming immediately known to TIM. (Which raises the question of who else besides Miranda and EDI reports to TIM about everything going on the Normandy...)

This obviously wasn't the case though with Telten.

Why not?

Experiment went bad. Primary subject excaped. What if that "If TIM knew..." log was fabriated, and put there by that very clean-up team, that supposedly failed to erase the place?

Or Scientist didn't know that TIM knew, it wasn't a magical exposition box, rather a log from one of the scientists. It wouldn't make sense for TIM to have a frabicated recording at an abandoned facility unless of course he sent Aresh who was actually a cerberus operative who hired bloodpack mercs to scour the ruins, acting crazy when Shepard and squad confronted him. That would also explain why he is older looking than Jack, but still far fetched.

Or TIM not only wanted to conserve the facility, but knowing of the escapees took measures to possibly bleach himself out before them and the Galaxy, in case they'd return there with a bunch of Committee for Cerberus Victims' Rights whistleblowers...

His e-mail to Shepard... well, he does not trust Shepard fully. Neither does he trust anyone so it's good to make up a legend that some of the worst stuff in Cerberus happens while he's asleep.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If you want to encourage a culture of paranoia and distrust, sure.

If you don't, and there are many reasons a secret society wants to have in-group trust be as strong as possible, then not really. And even 'independent' sources relies on that they, to, don't get turned: in the case of Teltin, we saw that both scientists and security were in on it.

Doesn't Jacob basically say that's what Cerberus is like (the paranoia and distrust)? And that is why you put mutiple sources

Jacob says that a lot of people who aren't the Illusive Man like to play like they're the Illusive Man. It's pretension of others.

He doesn't say that the organization is run like TIM's own private police state.

and sources that can't get turned (bugs in the audio systems and video cameras) that way if your bugs start going dark then you can send it some military minded operatives to clear out the traitors.

Sure.

If the only reason bugs went dark was because of treason, you intentionally want to collect more incriminating evidence trail for your foes to be able to stumble over and potentially use against you, and turning bugs off (as opposed to, say, giving them false data streams to report) was the only way to circumvent them.

And if executions are your chosen method of solving any discipline problems.

[Dean_the_Young]

Elite Midget wrote...

TIM did have the Normandy bugged and has cameras everywhere... Even Tali noticed the moment she stepped aboard the Normandy. Than there's always Kelly who keeps tabs on every crew member. I wouldn't be surprised if TIM didn't have her as another informant in the scenerio that EDI isn't reliable anymore. If he's going to take that much precausion with Shepard, who actually got to saw TIM, than don't you think he'll have even stricter tabs on his cells? After all, information and data is what he wants and I doubt he wouldn't make sure that he was getting the results he wanted.

No, I wouldn't. Especially when it goes against what is repeatedly stated as his stated normal way of operating.

The Normandy and Shepard's cell are also, as repeatedly pointed out, an exception to how Cerberus normally runs its things, and a far greater investment justifying far closer watch than other cells. Greater investment, greater risks, greater crisis, greater attention given.

'Getting the results he wanted' is a meaningless phase, given that much of Cerberus's work is about finding out if something is possible or not in the first place. What TIM wants, and what TIM can get, are two entirely different things, and no amount of  direct oversight will change that. TIM tells what he wants, and leaves it to the cell to figure out how: everyone in Cerberus agrees that while TIM is demanding, he is also very much a hands-off manager when it comes to how to do things.  

TIM has his information sources. By all appearances, after Teltin those efforts did upgrade: Overlord, by all appearances, wasn't a case of going behind TIM's back, but making a breakthrough and a disaster before TIM could even be briefed one way or the other. But Cerberus isn't a police state in itself, and it's rather silly to expect a covert agency to act like one.

[Elite Midget]

You aren't factoring in the advanced technologies of thje ME universe... I personally saw no cameras on the Normandy but Tali assured me that they were there. Not to mention with how far advanced EDI it makes me believe that he as plenty of AIs running around keeping him up to date on everything that happens. After all, EDI was able to keep tabs on Shepards crew with me never filing a report or the such.



I expect a covert agency to make sure their investments are providing the fruits for all of the labor he's putting into them.



That and I doubt TIM wouldn't keep tabs because than he would be asking for Cerberus cells to leak information for their own profit. Not to mention that Jacob even mentioned that every Cerberus scientist tries to act like TIM. Such as knowing everything and always jumping at oppertunity.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mass Effect doesn't factor in the advanced technologies of the ME universe. It still acts like ground armies are influential!



That said, I'm not sure what your point is referring to. The Normandy and Shepard, by the scale, size, and nature of their investment and mission, are stated exceptions to how Cerberus normally run things. That a lot of Cerberus spooks like to act all knowing does not, however, mean that they are. Which was Jacob's own implication.

[Arijharn]

You can't take Shephard to be a normal 'day in the life' of a Cerberus operation because you didn't volunteer to join Cerberus to begin with. They got your body and resurrected you, and TIM was confident enough of his information to believe that you'll continue to work for him after Freedom's Progress (although I have doubts that he really would be okay with just letting a 4 billion credit investment just up and leave -- then again the tech resources and knowledge gleaned from the resurrection of somebody would be worth an absolute fortune in more 'open' markets).

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mass Effect doesn't factor in the advanced technologies of the ME universe. It still acts like ground armies are influential!

That said, I'm not sure what your point is referring to. The Normandy and Shepard, by the scale, size, and nature of their investment and mission, are stated exceptions to how Cerberus normally run things. That a lot of Cerberus spooks like to act all knowing does not, however, mean that they are. Which was Jacob's own implication.

Actually if cities put up mass effect shield to deter orbital bombardment and GARDIAN systems to shoot down missiles, then a ground force would be needed to walk through the shield and disable the city's protection at the very least so the orbiting ships can rain down hell on the enemy.
Shouldn't the Illusive man have more then a vague idea about what his cells are doing? I doubt bugging facilities and having reports sent back to him from a reliable source would cost much in term's of Cerberus' budget, so if he doesn't take measures to monitor the cells it is like giving a small child scissors and telling them to get the candy upstairs as fast as possible, then acting suprised when they tripped on the stairs and end up getting their necks ventillated by a pair of scissors.