258 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good.

Average isn't bad, either. It's average.

And being contrary for contrariness' sake isn't enlightenment, it's pointless nitpicking.
His concern here is utterly invalid due to DA2's story structure.

[AdamNW]

I prefer having antagonists.



And it's not like Loghain's cutscenes caused any actual metagaming.

[Saibh]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Please keep in mind Sylvus has a rather.... unique look at RPG video games and what should or should not be included.

Yes, he usually likes the opposite of what everyone else likes

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

Actually, average is mid-tier. Mid-caliber.

I don't consider myself special and I don't find Family Guy funny and I don't find Avatar the best movie of all time.

[SirShreK]

Saibh wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Please keep in mind Sylvus has a rather.... unique look at RPG video games and what should or should not be included.

Yes, he usually likes the opposite of what everyone else likes

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

Actually, average is mid-tier. Mid-caliber.

I don't consider myself special and I don't find Family Guy funny and I don't find Avatar the best movie of all time.

Do you like  "Friends"?

[upsettingshorts]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

Must... resist... urge... to get into rhetorical debate.

I failed.

Whoa there.  While I'm certainly not going to argue that popularity is indicative of quality - that would be a fallacy known as argumentum ad populum - the inverse is also not necessarily true either.  An appeal to authority is equally falacious because neither is strictly relevant. 

Just because Sylvius subscribes to a particular set of principles regarding CRPGs and his evaluation of many modern conventions of the genre are in contrast to popular opinion does not - in of itself - make him correct.

Nor does the fact that the "masses" disagree with him and buy up DA:O and Mass Effect 1-2 in bunches make them correct either.  

First off, they're all subjective opinions and matters of taste.  We can argue objectively over things like semantics - the difference between plot and story for example - but ultimately the point of these discussions is about personal preference.  We therefore end up debating each other over whose explanation of what they prefer is the best and most worthy.  Sylvius, despite the fact I disagree with him entirely, articulates his opinions forcefully and convincingly, and I have no issues figuring out what he's trying to say and why.  This makes him a good poster and as such I find his opinions - again though I disagree with them - worthy of discussion.

There are dozens and dozens of posters on here - people I may or may not agree with - who couldn't form an argument or construct a coherent explanation to save their lives.  And those threads I either respond to with sarcasm or don't respond at all.  I like to think that the fact I put effort into my responses in threads like these is a gesture of respect.

I don't actually think I'm going to change his mind.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:08 .

[ShrinkingFish]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

No, no, no. Disliking what the majority likes is not pretentious. Not necessarily. And yes, pretentious is bad, always. It is never a good thing. Never. It is a character flaw.

Being pretentious means you're attempting to impress others by implying a greater importance, talent, culture, etc. than is actually possessed. It is a lie. A front. A method of attempting to make oneself seem superior when that is not the case.

Pretentious people aren't better than everyone else. They only act like they are. They only think they are. To the great irritation of their betters and belittlement of their equals.

You, by evidence of your statement... are pretentious.

[Saibh]

SirShreK wrote...

Saibh wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Please keep in mind Sylvus has a rather.... unique look at RPG video games and what should or should not be included.

Yes, he usually likes the opposite of what everyone else likes

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

Actually, average is mid-tier. Mid-caliber.

I don't consider myself special and I don't find Family Guy funny and I don't find Avatar the best movie of all time.

Do you like  "Friends"?

I've never watched it.

[TheMufflon]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
The majority of people are, by definition, average

That's not how averages work.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:11 .

[Dave of Canada]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas.

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.


Before people say I pulled statistics out of my ass, it's actually been said by Lionhead themselves.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:12 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Saibh wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Please keep in mind Sylvus has a rather.... unique look at RPG video games and what should or should not be included.

Yes, he usually likes the opposite of what everyone else likes

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

Actually, average is mid-tier. Mid-caliber.

I don't consider myself special and I don't find Family Guy funny and I don't find Avatar the best movie of all time.

Do you like  "Friends"?

I've never watched it.

I liked Friends.
And while I don't consider Avatar the best movie of all time (that honor would go to the LOTR trilogy, in my opinion), I still loved it. So...I'm an average person? Also, I don't find Family Guy funny.

[ShrinkingFish]

TheMufflon wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
The majority of people are, by definition, average

That's not how averages work.

Yeah... as a matter of fact. The majority of people are actually above average or below average in an even spread. Therefore the minority of people are average.

[TheMufflon]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.

I'm 80% certain that 100% of those statistics are made up.

[Dave of Canada]

TheMufflon wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.

I'm 80% certain that 100% of those statistics are made up.

I was mistaken about "over 50%" but I got it pretty damn close.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:15 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Saibh wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Saibh wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Please keep in mind Sylvus has a rather.... unique look at RPG video games and what should or should not be included.

Yes, he usually likes the opposite of what everyone else likes

To be fair, that's a good thing. The majority of people are, by definition, average, and average isn't good. Average is low tier, low caliber. Average are the people who find Family Guy funny and think Avatar was the greatest movie of all time, as opposed to Citizen Kane, China Town, or even Goodfellas. 

Disliking what the majority like is pretentious, but pretentious isn't bad.

Actually, average is mid-tier. Mid-caliber.

I don't consider myself special and I don't find Family Guy funny and I don't find Avatar the best movie of all time.

Do you like  "Friends"?

I've never watched it.

I liked Friends.
And while I don't consider Avatar the best movie of all time (that honor would go to the LOTR trilogy, in my opinion), I still loved it. So...I'm an average person? Also, I don't find Family Guy funny.

Just to put it on record. I find Family Guy funny. And I find South Park funny. And I don't let either one dictate my tastes for anything else. I enjoy them for what they are and not what people think they should be.

[upsettingshorts]

Actually his sentence was so all over the place that it almost defies correction. He's talking about Sylvius being contrarian, and then uses the fact that his opinions are in the minority as evidence that it is superior because popular opinions are by their nature less than worthy. Which he then justifies by saying that majority opinions are of average quality by their nature, which - as it has been pointed out - is not only not how averages work but also not indicative of quality in any way.

[TheMufflon]

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.

I'm 80% certain that 100% of those statistics are made up.

I was mistaken about "over 50%" but I got it pretty damn close.

I didn't say they were made up by you.

EDIT: Also, it says Fable, not Fable 2.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:19 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.

I'm 80% certain that 100% of those statistics are made up.

I was mistaken about "over 50%" but I got it pretty damn close.

I'm 90% sure that he was making a joke about statistics.

On a related note, were you aware that 65% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

[Dhiro]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.

I'm 80% certain that 100% of those statistics are made up.

I was mistaken about "over 50%" but I got it pretty damn close.

I'm 90% sure that he was making a joke about statistics.

On a related note, were you aware that 65% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

Yeah, and only 40% of the people know about that.

[ShrinkingFish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Actually his sentence was so all over the place that it almost defies correction. He's talking about Sylvius being contrarian, and then uses the fact that his opinions are in the minority as evidence that it is superior because popular opinions are by their nature less than worthy. Which he then justifies by saying that majority opinions are of average quality by their nature, which - as it has been pointed out - is not only not how averages work but also not indicative of quality in any way.

Were you/Are you a philosophy major? Or did you just study how to construct solid arguments in a philosophy class or from a philosopher at some point?

[ShrinkingFish]

Dhiro wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Since I'm bored... sort of adding to this, more than 60% of people who purchased Fable 2 didn't understand over 50% of the game's features. Many of the Fable 1 fans were complaining that the game was "dumbed down", too.

I'm 80% certain that 100% of those statistics are made up.

I was mistaken about "over 50%" but I got it pretty damn close.

I'm 90% sure that he was making a joke about statistics.

On a related note, were you aware that 65% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

Yeah, and only 40% of the people know about that.

And of that 40% only 15% actually get the joke!

[Dave of Canada]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

I'm 90% sure that he was making a joke about statistics.

It's often used as an insult to somebody who uses statistics too, not as a joke.

I'm also 97% sure that they aren't exactly made up, just from the online portion of the game. Just like how Bioware found out that 3% or so played dwarves in Origins.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:21 .

[TheMufflon]

ShrinkingFish wrote...

And of that 40% only 15% actually get the joke!

But of those 15%, 87% find it funny.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:21 .

[ShrinkingFish]

Dave of Canada wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

I'm 90% sure that he was making a joke about statistics.

It's often used as an insult to somebody who uses statistics too, not as a joke.

I'm also 97% sure that they aren't exactly made up, just from the online portion of the game. Just like how Bioware found out that 3% or so played dwarves in Origins.

True. And yes, I do believe those stats are fairly accurate.

[upsettingshorts]

ShrinkingFish wrote...
Were you/Are you a philosophy major? Or
did you just study how to construct solid arguments in a philosophy
class or from a philosopher at some point?

Former political science student and current history buff - one of my favorite historical figures is Cicero, FWIW.  My take on poli sci - and part of the reason I didn't pursue it - was at the time of my choosing it I viewed it as "applied philosophy."

Otherwise, to answer your question - it's simpler than that. I tend to view arguments the same way one might view sports. I play to win, and I practice at it. Granted, I'm very much an amateur and have no professional rhetorical training or anything of the sort. I throw out fallacies all the time, often without realizing it until later.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 02 octobre 2010 - 01:22 .

[ShrinkingFish]

TheMufflon wrote...

ShrinkingFish wrote...

And of that 40% only 15% actually get the joke!

But of those 15%, 87% find it funny.

And of those 87% only a mere 14.6% find it funny to beat the joke to death at any given opportunity.

And that leaves us with some kind of number that... that is just... tiny.