295 réponses à ce sujet

[zapkeet]

I hear so many opinions from people, but this is one i don't usually hear

my character was a good guy, adn I really liked alistair.  he was a good character, i personally didn't think he was too whiny, and thought he would make a decent king. 

I thought Loghain was a monster, plain and simple. I can see how he became one and how it "corrupted" him.  He wasn't evil necessarily, but he really did need to be stopped.

Here's the thing though..why i spared Loghain.  he specifically yielded to the warden.  Sure he only did it once he was defeated, but I think he finally realized that he lost, and that he was wrong.  otherwise he would have fought to the bitter end, but didn't.  Killing him just seems so cruel, was he cruel to others? of course, but really now, what the hell does killing him gain at that point?  letting alistair get his way in his tantrum in killing loghain seems to be the making of a tyrant in my opinion.  If loghain was still bitterly making threats, then yes, he was a danger, but he obviously had given up, it was over.  There was NO reason to kill him, particullarly when you could have used him as a potential ally, with him being willing

the fact that Alistair did not see this..it was childish and stupid.  you can't; say anything else about it.  people who are anti-loghain say "well orlais issues were all in the past!!!!"  well guess what?  Loghain's issues are NOW in the past.  Alistair is acting exactly like Loghain was

so really there are two choices:  choose the person who wishes to reedeem himself, choose the person who wishes to become what he hates.  as a good character, the choice was clear

[zapkeet]

and is this considered a spoiler in the topic title >_>. sorry, just saw that rule

[KnightofPhoenix]

I would guess that many spare Loghain for this reason, yes. Just like others kill Loghain because they too think they are playing "good characters".

[TJPags]

No, I don't think this is a spoiler title.
And that's all I'll say.

[Zjarcal]

So I take it this thread will host the weekly Loghain debate? 

And to the OP, yes, that's a valid reason to spare Loghain.

[TJPags]

Zjarcal wrote...

So I take it this thread will host the weekly Loghain debate? 

Probably. 

[zapkeet]

haha yeah i know i know, this is debated a lot



but honestly, i've never seen THIS point ever a main topic of debate. I always see it more about "is loghain evil or good" and then the decision to spare him or not comes from there....but really it goes beyond that. I can't bring myself to kill someone who has surrendered

[Monica21]

In my first playthrough I had no intention of killing him when he yielded. The reason I did kill him was because my character was romancing Alistair. And that's really the only reason.

[Fangirl17]

I hate having to chose Ali or Loghain :< This is going to be very conflicting for my recent character because she will want to let Loghain live because she believes no one deserves death as a punishment. And you make a good point,he does give up and accepts losing.Aw now Im all sad :< I dont want Alistair to leave me TT____TT

[zapkeet]

yeah, it's a very very hard choice, as i really do like alistair. part of me wishes I could really hate alistair OR loghain, and I just can't. I could if loghain had no intention of surrendering, but he did. Alistair was just...being hysterical at that point. one thing that proves that is, as you are talking to him:



"you're letting the man who killed duncan! who killed the king! just get away! you're joining him?!"



"alistair, it's not like that"



"isn't it? ...maybe not...i don't know anymore"

[zapkeet]

so basically..it's a shame you can't hunt him out again. reading the end of "The calling" and seeing that little baby as alistair, just to see that he's never going to be heard from again, when he would have made a decent king except for that outburst



just a shame

[Viva la France]

Loghain a badass motha****a, thats why I spared him.

I spared him because the Grey Wardens could use him in the coming battle.

Modifié par Viva la France, 02 octobre 2010 - 03:40 .

[Reika]

Honestly for my Warden didn't consider herself a nice person, or even a good one, didn't spare Loghain because he had closely allied himself with the murderer of her parents and likely helped arrange her brother's death (only he was alive as found out much later, but it was too late by then). Added to the fact he had betrayed his king, had the wardens hunted like animals, yeah... she wasn't going to let the man live. If she had her way, she would've execute Anora also if only because she saw the woman as a threat.



Is that the reasoning of a good character? I'm fairly sure it isn't.

[Viva la France]

My Warden was focused on howe

[Reika]

Viva la France wrote...

My Warden was focused on howe

Oh, not that mine wasn't. Howe died very painfully and messily. But there was still the fact that Loghain made Howe his right hand man didn't set well with mine at all.

[Viva la France]

my warden liked taking leaps of faith, so he spared loghain

[wickedgoodreed]

Yep, I've spared Loghain for that reason. Particularly because the terms of the "honorable duel" are that it's "fought according to tradition...until one party yields" and not to the death. My wardens who are "good" typically abide by that sort of thing. Regardless of their personal feelings for Loghain and his actions, they accept his surrender of rule on the assumption that sentencing for his crimes will be sorted out later. Of course the whole scenario snowballs from there given Alistair's reaction...

Modifié par wickedgoodreed, 02 octobre 2010 - 04:28 .

[Crippledcarny]

Sparing Loghain isn't as simple as keeping a man who is looking for forgiveness alive.

(The Stolen Throne spoilers ahead!)



After reading The Stolen Throne it becomes clear very quickly there wouldn't be a free Ferelden without him. Yet went you look at how he felt about Katriel, who ended it up a pretty similar situation Loghain is in at the end of Origins, it becomes pretty clear that if someone else did what Loghain did, Loghain would have had them killed without a second thought to it. I believe he something along the lines of, Justice doesn't care if the person is good or not, in the book.

[Sarah1281]

So we're supposed to use Loghain's judgement to decide if we, the Wardens, should kill him? Why?

Edit: Plus, Katriel kind of had to die. She was an Orlesian bard who knowingly led the army into a trap and caused a massacre and only had a change of heart 'through the power of love' which, given she'd just been caught, could easily be made up. Then there's the fact that the nobles would have problems following the guy who was regularly sleeping with the enemy and who gave her a second chance so easily. Maric wasn't king yet, after all.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 02 octobre 2010 - 04:56 .

[Zjarcal]

There's no doubt that Loghain would execute the Warden if the tables were turned. Hell, that's what he calls for when you lose the Landsmeet.



Deciding to spare him is an entirely different decision that may as well not be what Loghain would've done instead. Just like Alistair decides not to kill Anora even though Anora does call for his execution (and points it out when she's imprisoned).

[Crippledcarny]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So we're supposed to use Loghain's judgement to decide if we, the Wardens, should kill him? Why?

Edit: Plus, Katriel kind of had to die. She was an Orlesian bard who knowingly led the army into a trap and caused a massacre and only had a change of heart 'through the power of love' which, given she'd just been caught, could easily be made up. Then there's the fact that the nobles would have problems following the guy who was regularly sleeping with the enemy and who gave her a second chance so easily. Maric wasn't king yet, after all.

I'm not telling you to kill him for that reason, I'm saying it's not a simple choice no matter how you flip the coin.

And did Loghain not lead an army into what was basically a trap? And doesn't Loghain try to redeem him self by joining the warden just as Katriel tried to redeem her self by saving Maric and then leading them to Gwaren?

[Harcken]

Loghain and to a greater extent, his daughter, are a threat to Allistair's throne. Ferelden would be more united under the undisputed rule of one strong, hardened king. My Warden was all about stability, and Loghain proved to be anything but stable.

[Crippledcarny]

Zjarcal wrote...

There's no doubt that Loghain would execute the Warden if the tables were turned. Hell, that's what he calls for when you lose the Landsmeet.

Deciding to spare him is an entirely different decision that may as well not be what Loghain would've done instead. Just like Alistair decides not to kill Anora even though Anora does call for his execution (and points it out when she's imprisoned).

I'm not talking at all about what Loghain would have done to the warden, I'm talking about what Loghain would have done to someone who did what Loghain did.

[Crippledcarny]

Harcken wrote...

Loghain and to a greater extent, his daughter, are a threat to Allistair's throne. Ferelden would be more united under the undisputed rule of one strong, hardened king. My Warden was all about stability, and Loghain proved to be anything but stable.

Killing the man who helped free their country seems pretty unstabilizing to me.

[Zjarcal]

Crippledcarny wrote...

I'm not talking at all about what Loghain would have done to the warden, I'm talking about what Loghain would have done to someone who did what Loghain did.

He would also kill them, no doubt.