295 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

And did Loghain not lead an army into what was basically a trap? And doesn't Loghain try to redeem him self by joining the warden just as Katriel tried to redeem her self by saving Maric and then leading them to Gwaren?

You mean when he neglected to charge once there were far more darkspawn than expected and he wasn't confident about their chances even before realizing that? Hardly the same thing as Katriel attempting to destroy the rebellion. Loghain doesn't want to destroy Ferelden. That would be rather counter-productive to his goal of saving it, in fact.



And Loghain doesn't try to redeem himself at all. Riordan suggests making him a Warden and you can accept and use the rite of conscription. Loghain doesn't get any more of a say than the reluctant Warden in the origin.

[Zjarcal]

Round 76,423 it is.

[Giggles_Manically]

Zjarcal wrote...

Round 76,423 it is.

<Cheesy PS1 announcer voice>
FIGHT!

[Crippledcarny]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 You mean when he neglected to charge once there were far more darkspawn than expected and he wasn't confident about their chances even before realizing that? Hardly the same thing as Katriel attempting to destroy the rebellion. Loghain doesn't want to destroy Ferelden. That would be rather counter-productive to his goal of saving it, in fact.

And Loghain doesn't try to redeem himself at all. Riordan suggests making him a Warden and you can accept and use the rite of conscription. Loghain doesn't get any more of a say than the reluctant Warden in the origin.

It was made pretty clear that Loghain never was going to charge charge the darkspawn at Ostagar. And while Loghain might have had better motives for he did than Katriel, both of them let an army die.

And maybe redeem wasn't the best word, but he does go willing to help teh Warden. He could have easily just kept fighting to his death then let the Warden take the lead.

[kag666]

he specifically yielded to the warden.  Sure he only did it once he was defeated, but I think he finally realized that he lost, and that he was wrong

As soon as any criminal is caught suddenly they "see the light", "found god", "are turning their lives around", "are becoming a new person"  etc. and we're supposed to forget about all the people they raped/murdered.

Then they get a slap on the wrist as punishment, get released, and resume murdering.  Great system to make lawyers rich, but bad for you when your wife or husband is dead.

Loghain lost the duel so he's a changed man ?   I didn't buy it.  Alistair wanted Loghain's head, so I chopped it off and put it on a pike, my gift to the new king.

[Merilsell]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Round 76,423 it is.

FIGHT!

Is it my turn to bring the popcorn in again? Aww, unfair I just did that in the last Loghain thread 

[CalJones]

[nos_astra]

*facepalm*



Is the Loghain police out again? Can't you just let the people discuss what they want to discuss even if it's a discussion you have seen many times? Or do you want him to join your gush thread so you can call him a troll?



*rolleyes*

[Elhanan]

I have had Wardens that accept his choice to yield. Then after Alistair, Riordin, and Anora have had their say, it comes down to death or the Joining. Only my Mages accept the Joining, as I play them as somewhat precognative, and sense that he will be of later use. The rest of the time he ends his reign at the Landsmeet, to pay for what I see as his many crimes.

[CalJones]

It's not that...it's that we've just had the exact same discussion in this thread which was last contributed to only five days ago.

The thing is, whilst new posters may come up with a slightly different angle, the discussion always ends up as "I always cut Loghain's head off cos he's eeeeevil TROLLOLOLOL!!11!!1" vs the battle weary Loghain supporters.

Zapkeet's views are very similar to my own, for the record - I like Alistair a lot up until Landsmeet. At that point, I really don't like what I see. It doesn't matter how much I like a person, I'm not going to kill a man just to please them.

There are two problems here. Firstly, Loghain suffers from a lot of cut content, which would have fleshed him out a lot more. (Some of it can be found here), though not the whole subplot where Cailan was indeed going to divorce Anora to marry the empress of Orlais - I'm not sure how far that one got into development.

The other is that, at no point during the game, can you challenge Alistair (or Teagan or Eamon) about their views on Loghain. It's conceivable that some Wardens would have a high opinion of him (being the Hero of River Dane, and Maric's BFF) and thus question Alistair's judgement, at least initially - but no, the only dialogue options are to agree with him or to change the subject.

[Sabariel]

I execute Loghain just to make adorable little kittens cry

[Tigress M]

Back to the OP's question... yes that's as good of a reason as any. I spared Loghain in only one playthrough and that was because I wanted the achievements for recruiting all possible party members and Warden Commander without watching Alistair kill himself for me.

And the reason I never spare him is because I'm besotted with Alistair and seeing him turn into a drunk when he leaves the party if he's not King broke my heart and I swore I'd never do that again. 

Modifié par Tigress M, 02 octobre 2010 - 11:32 .

[BHRamsay]

I kill Loghain for one reason and one reason alone .... sparing him leaves Anora to deliver the inspirational speech at the final battle and no offense but Anora couldn't inspire water over a cook fire to boil. :-)



If there was any other option then listening to her make that tepid speech, I might consider it.

[CalJones]

That's a reason I can actually agree with. I like Anora but damn, that high-pitched screaming... That's the point at which I usually go and put the kettle on.

Having said that, I prefer her eulogy to Alistair's for a warden who does the US.

[Monica21]

BHRamsay wrote...

I kill Loghain for one reason and one reason alone .... sparing him leaves Anora to deliver the inspirational speech at the final battle and no offense but Anora couldn't inspire water over a cook fire to boil. :-)

If there was any other option then listening to her make that tepid speech, I might consider it.

That's when the Esc key comes in handy.

[Wulfram]

Sarah1281 wrote...
And Loghain doesn't try to redeem himself at all. Riordan suggests making him a Warden and you can accept and use the rite of conscription. Loghain doesn't get any more of a say than the reluctant Warden in the origin.

I do wonder what Loghain was expecting when he surrendered.  My City Elf would have been a lot happier if he'd kept his mouth shut for a few more seconds so she could kill him in battle.

[The Almighty Ali]

In my first playthrough, I wasn't planning on killing Loghain but when I was confronted with the choice I started to think. He was deliberatly allowing slavers to abduct elves, he knew Howe was a sadist and who tortured members of several noble families, he paid a mage to poison an arl and a rumor, if i'm not mistaken, given to me by a bartender in the game told that he had hung some people up on spears to try to scare others to stop their protests. Based on that, I killed him.

[CalJones]

You missed the other half of that bit of gossip. The people he hung up had shot flaming arrows at the tents of his men as they camped, which resulted in several burning to death. They had it coming.

[Giggles_Manically]

CalJones wrote...

You missed the other half of that bit of gossip. The people he hung up had shot flaming arrows at the tents of his men as they camped, which resulted in several burning to death. They had it coming.

True but its loghain!
Everything he does  is evil! 

[TJPags]

Does anyone else view the duel, and the option to kill or spare Loghain, as separate issues?  Because, really, I do.

The Duel impacts whether to depose Anora/Loghain's regency (and I'm not going to discuss it's legality or lack thereof here).  In my mind, that's really all it does.  By winning the Duel, my Warden now gets the final say - as granted by the Landsmeet - about who sits on the throne (and as an aside, that's Anora, to me).

The next issue becomes, what to do with Loghain, conscript him or execute him.

I really see these as two separate things, even though the game makes them happen back to back.

[CalJones]

Yes, I do too.

[Wulfram]

In my eyes it's the duel which puts Loghain at the Warden's mercy, to spare or not as he judges.

Though it's more ambiguous for the Warden than it is for Alistair, since for some reason the Warden is compelled to listen to everyone rabbit on for ages even if they're determined to kill Loghain.

[TJPags]

Wulfram wrote...

In my eyes it's the duel which puts Loghain at the Warden's mercy, to spare or not as he judges.

Though it's more ambiguous for the Warden than it is for Alistair, since for some reason the Warden is compelled to listen to everyone rabbit on for ages even if they're determined to kill Loghain.

In a way, yes, but in a way, no.

The Duel is the culmination of the Landsmeet itself, the final vote if you will.  It's this, in my mind, which gives the Warden the right to judge Loghain - winning the Landsmeet.

If, for example, Loghain abided by the vote and accepted defeat withOUT the duel, to me, it's the same situation.  The Warden is given the right to choose the king/queen, and the ability to judge Loghain.

[LPain]

The original post is exactly the reason why I saved him the last time. In my last playthrough I spared Loghain for the first time and I find it hard not to do it in the future. I mean.. the way he explains himself satisfied me greatly. And also I found great satisfaction when man who despised Wardens became one of them and started to respect them and finally saw Wardens with Maric's eyes. Also when I made Alistair to marry Anora Ferelden got great king and queen. Why not? Of course as Maric's character resembles greatly Alistair you can guess that despite him being a good king his life will not be necessarily full of happiness but duty.. but oh well.. For Ferelden and all that.

[FellowerOfOdin]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I would guess that many spare Loghain for this reason, yes. Just like others kill Loghain because they too think they are playing "good characters".

Haha, that put a smile on my face. All those hypocrits saying they play a "good" hero and then brutally murder someone who just surrendered. LAWFUL GOOD, huh?