295 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

naledgeborn wrote...

As a Human Noble it's about uniting Fereldan against the Blight. I spared Loghain because he surrendered. What would killing him gain? Nothing. If anything ardent Loghain supporters would disaffect from the Throne if he's painted as a villain. Making him a Warden makes his supporters Warden supporters.

That's one view.  The other view is that leaving him alive is inviting the civil war to continue, so by killing him you gain unity and sole command of Ferelden's armies.  Do you really expect the man who spent the whole game trying to kill you to suddenly turn on a dime and become your subordinate?  Do you expect his troops to follow you instead of him if he doesn't?  You've already painted him as a criminal- if not a vilain- throughout the Landsmeet, so that ship has sailed by the time the duel comes around.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
That's one view.  The other view is that leaving him alive is inviting the civil war to continue, so by killing him you gain unity and sole command of Ferelden's armies.  Do you really expect the man who spent the whole game trying to kill you to suddenly turn on a dime and become your subordinate?  Do you expect his troops to follow you instead of him if he doesn't?  You've already painted him as a criminal- if not a vilain- throughout the Landsmeet, so that ship has sailed by the time the duel comes around.

Not necessarily, if he won the Landsmeet.

Of course the issue of trusting him is essential, in addition to the civil war problem.
But both choices could have prevented an end to the civil war. Loghain's troops might still be loyal to Loghain if you spare him, just like they can still be loyal to him after death and continue fighting regardless.

[Merilsell]

My canon char is actually a character with a True neutral alignment. She wouldn't give a damn about Loghain, if he wouldn't have harmed her or the ones she loves. Well but since he has, it's off with his head at Landsmeet and screw the politics. Yeah it's that simple when playing my Dalish. xD

[KnightofPhoenix]

Merilsell wrote...

My canon char is actually a character with a True neutral alignment. She wouldn't give a damn about Loghain, if he wouldn't have harmed her or the ones she loves. Well but since he has, it's off with his head at Landsmeet and screw the politics. Yeah it's that simple when playing my Dalish. xD

My character is, I think, also of that alignment (+ "Neutral evil"), but mostly like this:

"Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run."
Moderation would be a better word than neutrality though, in that case.

And he is very different from your PC.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 02 octobre 2010 - 08:39 .

[Zjarcal]

May I just say how much I hate all this talk of "good" and "evil" characters. I know, it's D&D crap, but I hate it.

My characters aren't good or evil, they are who they are.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 02 octobre 2010 - 08:43 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

May I just say how much I hate all this talk of "good" and "evil" characters. I know, it's D&D crap, but I hate it.

Same actually.
3 interchangeable variables (with highly debatable definitions) do not offer a complex analysis. 

[Sarah1281]

naledgeborn wrote...



As a Human Noble it's about uniting Fereldan against the Blight. I spared Loghain because he surrendered. What would killing him gain? Nothing. If anything ardent Loghain supporters would disaffect from the Throne if he's painted as a villain. Making him a Warden makes his supporters Warden supporters.

Why would this be different for non-HNs? No matter if they care for politics or Ferelden or not, the whole point of the Landsmeet is to unite Ferelden against the Blight. That's why they have it.

[Wulfram]

I think the safest option is for Loghain to be dead and Anora on the throne - whether alone or with Alistair.



King Alistair and Queen Cousland is probably the most divisive - there's nothing there to appease Mac Tir loyalists, and the throne is held by people with Loghain's blood on their hands. Though Alistair exiled or beheaded may be nearly as bad

[Sesshomaru47]

Loghain is a raving loon as seen in the first novel. It's deep rooted and he can't get over it. To say Alistair is now acting like him is unfair. Alistair is a grieving young man who just lost the closest thing he's had to a father and his only brother. I'd want to lop of that dingbats head off too.

Modifié par Sesshomaru47, 02 octobre 2010 - 09:27 .

[Fangirl17]

Hm this might be slightly off topic but what kind of ending do I get if I have Ali marry Anora.spare Loghain, and do the US? Will Ali do my eulogy? My character would HATE to marry Ali off to someone he doesnt want to marry but she knows if she spares Loghain that he will be outraged and leave.Some would call that meta gaming but its aso a logical way to rp it.Gr I dont know what to do for Katsa's ending >.< I know I want her to do the US and that I want to make Ali king.

[Sarah1281]

Fangirl17 wrote...

Hm this might be slightly off topic but what kind of ending do I get if I have Ali marry Anora.spare Loghain, and do the US? Will Ali do my eulogy? My character would HATE to marry Ali off to someone he doesnt want to marry but she knows if she spares Loghain that he will be outraged and leave.Some would call that meta gaming but its aso a logical way to rp it.Gr I dont know what to do for Katsa's ending >.< I know I want her to do the US and that I want to make Ali king.

If you spare Loghain then Anora will do your eulogy.

[naledgeborn]

Sarah1281 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

As a Human Noble it's about uniting Fereldan against the Blight. I spared Loghain because he surrendered. What would killing him gain? Nothing. If anything ardent Loghain supporters would disaffect from the Throne if he's painted as a villain. Making him a Warden makes his supporters Warden supporters.

Why would this be different for non-HNs? No matter if they care for politics or Ferelden or not, the whole point of the Landsmeet is to unite Ferelden against the Blight. That's why they have it.

I wasn't clear, myself as an HNM (because that's what my canon is)

[Fangirl17]

Ah thank you Sarah.That makes sense because I guess Alistair would still hate you for sparing Loghain. :< I dont think I can take Ali hating me.

Edit:Aw screw it Loghain will just have to die...again >:l

Modifié par Fangirl17, 02 octobre 2010 - 09:34 .

[naledgeborn]

Addai67 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

As a Human Noble it's about uniting Fereldan against the Blight. I spared Loghain because he surrendered. What would killing him gain? Nothing. If anything ardent Loghain supporters would disaffect from the Throne if he's painted as a villain. Making him a Warden makes his supporters Warden supporters.

That's one view.  The other view is that leaving him alive is inviting the civil war to continue, so by killing him you gain unity and sole command of Ferelden's armies.  Do you really expect the man who spent the whole game trying to kill you to suddenly turn on a dime and become your subordinate?  Do you expect his troops to follow you instead of him if he doesn't?  You've already painted him as a criminal- if not a vilain- throughout the Landsmeet, so that ship has sailed by the time the duel comes around.

Subordinate or not he's bound to the Warden through the Joining. It would be in his overall best interest to submit. He would be extremely stupid not to, and as we all saw after his defeat he surrendered. In my opinion (keyword) Loghain is a stubborn man not a stupid one. So is the Warden.

[Elhanan]

Quick Inquiry: Does Loghain yield if he defeats the Warden, or is it death/game over?

[Merilsell]

Zjarcal wrote...

May I just say how much I hate all this talk of "good" and "evil" characters. I know, it's D&D crap, but I hate it.

My characters aren't good or evil, they are who they are.

Agreed. Still this comes closest to how my character is and is much easier to use in the situation now... than to write a wall of text about her motivation; why she do some stuff, and why some not.

I could do this of course, but I think this would bore people here... and I keep that kind of development then rather to my FF

[Addai]

naledgeborn wrote...

Subordinate or not he's bound to the Warden through the Joining. It would be in his overall best interest to submit. He would be extremely stupid not to, and as we all saw after his defeat he surrendered. In my opinion (keyword) Loghain is a stubborn man not a stupid one. So is the Warden.

He also retreated in Ostagar, but only to regroup.  Just as Eamon doesn't accept a defeat without a fight, Loghain could easily have gone that route.  Personally I think he probably wants it to be finished at that point, as long as he knows someone is there to lead the armies.

Modifié par Addai67, 02 octobre 2010 - 09:45 .

[Merilsell]

Elhanan wrote...

Quick Inquiry: Does Loghain yield if he defeats the Warden, or is it death/game over?

Game over.

[Sarah1281]

Elhanan wrote...

Quick Inquiry: Does Loghain yield if he defeats the Warden, or is it death/game over?

Quick Answer: He kills you but since when is anyone claiming that Loghain would show mercy? Hell, many spare-Loghain people have even agreed that Loghain, if he were looking at the matter objectively, would come down on the 'kill Loghain' side. What in the world does that have to do with the Warden's decision? 

[Elhanan]

Not the Warden;s; mine.

[naledgeborn]

Addai67 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Subordinate or not he's bound to the Warden through the Joining. It would be in his overall best interest to submit. He would be extremely stupid not to, and as we all saw after his defeat he surrendered. In my opinion (keyword) Loghain is a stubborn man not a stupid one. So is the Warden.

He also retreated in Ostagar, but only to regroup.  Just as Eamon doesn't accept a defeat without a fight, Loghain could easily have gone that route.  Personally I think he probably wants it to be finished at that point, as long as he knows someone is there to lead the armies.

That's what I mean by Loghain being stubborn. He can keep thinking he's the only one that can get the job done all he wants. However he and the Warden can both agree that the job needs to get done. He lost the metaphorical dick swinging contest and he surrenders. I don't see a need to cut his head off after that. It just seems like a wasting a resource to me.

[Sarah1281]

Elhanan wrote...

Not the Warden;s; mine.

If you only ever spared people who would spare you then you would go around killing everybody who you could potentially offer mercy to.

[naledgeborn]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Not the Warden;s; mine.

If you only ever spared people who would spare you then you would go around killing everybody who you could potentially offer mercy to.

Calenhad didn't become king that way either.

[Elhanan]

Not my thoughts; was wondering about the other hypocrites that might be on the Forums arguing for sparing Loghain; not just those who are killing him.

My own decisions have not changed a bit, I slay him in the Landsmeet most of the time, and recommend sparing him once to enjoy some of the best writing in the game.

[Sarah1281]

How are people being hypocrites? Loghain doesn't have to be willing to offer you mercy in order for you to show him some. It would be hypocritical, however, if you expected Loghain to offer you mercy and were outraged when he doesn't but refuse to offer him some.