184 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

How can something that doesn't exist have an appearance?
**** the chantry

*facepalm

[ErichHartmann]

*sigh*



Atheism doesn't prove anything beyond an individual chooses not believe.

[Pauravi]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

All right, let's say he isn't real...what about the Golden City then?

What about it?
Spirits could easily have made it.  They can forge a blade out of pure thought, I don't see why they couldn't dream a building into existence.  Hell, the Sloth Demon made a whole pocket realm to imprison you in.

[tool_bot]

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

[General Malor]

vakarian1111 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

I doubt he even exists. Just like every religion, the Chantry has zero proof

Exactly.

What about the Urn of Sacred ashes? Proof that Andraste's remains were blessed by the Maker to have holy effects and heal the sick. They actually kinda changed my mind about the Chantry, while the Chantry it's self is a disturbing institution what they speak about is actually okay. Once you weed through the lies and what not it would seem that at least the Chantry got it right that there was a being known as Andraste, there was a Golden City(Which you can see whenever you enter the fade so IT IS there and is real...as real as anything in the fade is), that humans entered the Golden City turning it black(which again you can see from the fade) and that there is a Maker. Plenty of proof that a being known as the Maker is real, though it would seem long gone from Thedas.

But still I'm Dalish(play Dalish)...so no matter how old your Maker is my Gods are older than him and the Dragons.

Modifié par General Malor, 05 octobre 2010 - 12:44 .

[SirShreK]

Blacklash93 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

David Gaider thinks otherwise.

No, he's never confirmed or denied that the Maker exists, and I doubt he ever will.

In your link he's just saying what the Chantry says, which according to several people in DAO is rarely the truth.

Reading comprehension failure?

I said that Maker was not an asspull from the chantry. Even the  AND Old God praying tevinter Imperium believed that the Golden city was built by the maker.

I think you are ignorant of the fact (or did not read the linked post correctly) that the tevinter imprium precedes the Chantry.

Just because the Maker concept existed before the Chantry did doesn't mean it's true. It just wasn't turned into a formal religion yet.

All these individual myths and legends are only a fraction of the whole story. What people believe to be the maker probably exists, though their story and vision of him may not be true. The elven and old gods are the most interesting to me at this point, as they're the ones we know the least about.

My biggest question question, though, is...

Why is this called Dragon Age? What about the story merits that title? I know the Old Gods are Dragons, but they're just... not that impressive if Urthemiel is any indication.

Dude, where in that discussion with D.Cain did I say that the Maker exists (though whatever I may believe)? One reading comprehension failure deserves another I guess.

Modifié par SirShreK, 05 octobre 2010 - 12:26 .

[joriandrake]

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

[SirShreK]

Pauravi wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

All right, let's say he isn't real...what about the Golden City then?

What about it?
Spirits could easily have made it.  They can forge a blade out of pure thought, I don't see why they couldn't dream a building into existence.  Hell, the Sloth Demon made a whole pocket realm to imprison you in.

.....

ggggaahhhh! people! read the lore!

[tool_bot]

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

[joriandrake]

tool_bot wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

[SirShreK]

For the benefit of the general public here are some facts:

1) Golden city WAS indeed Golden.
2) Golden city existed since before the Tevinter Imperium
3) Spirits DO NOT go to the Golden city
4) Golden City, unlike things made by spirits, IS NOT EVANESCENT.
5) In the Dragon age Comics there is a clear afterlife, as in a place where people go after they die.
6) The Urn of Sacred Ashes was known to have been powerful as a healing relic BEFORE being taken to the temple as per known records.
7) Elven Gods DID NOT create the world. They were born of it.
8) The Concept of the Maker preceded the Chantry by a LONG time. The Tevinter Imperium which was extremely practical, believed in Old Gods, also believed in the Maker, but decided that He had abandoned mankind.

Modifié par SirShreK, 05 octobre 2010 - 12:33 .

[GodWood]

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

Then who made the thing that made the wheel?

[tool_bot]

joriandrake wrote...

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

rofl

The watchmaker argument? Please, I got enough of that gibberish growing up.

I will however agree, that there likely is a Maker in DA for no other reason then fantasy writers seem to love creating their own deities. (or copying existing ones)

[SirShreK]

GodWood wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

Then who made the thing that made the wheel?

One of the popular requirements for being a god is that He is the Prime creator and exists by himself without the need of being created.

[tool_bot]

SirShreK wrote...

5) In the Dragon age Comics there is a clear afterlife, as in a place where people go after they die.

Is that the one written by Orson Scott Card?

[joriandrake]

SirShreK wrote...

For the benefit of the general public here are some facts:

1) Golden city WAS indeed Golden.
2) Golden city existed since before the Tevinter Imperium
3) Spirits DO NOT go to the Golden city
4) Golden City, unlike things made by spirits, IS NOT EVANESCENT.
5) In the Dragon age Comics there is a clear afterlife, as in a place where people go after they die.
6) The Urn of Sacred Ashes was known to have been powerful as a healing relic BEFORE being taken to the temple as per known records.
7) Elven Gods DID NOT create the world. They were born of it.
8) The Concept of the Maker preceded the Chantry by a LONG time. The Tevinter Imperium which was extremely practical, believed in Old Gods, also believed in the Maker, but decided that He had abandoned mankind.

this


the whole argument seems to forget that this is a question a bout a fantasy God of a fantasy world, it doesn't matter if one is in RL atheist or if not what religion he/she belongs to, and yes we do have facts from lore that make it looks as if the Maker exists, but that doesn't exclude possibilities like that it is a Dragon or a girl or just a superstrong entity from the future that just travelled back in time and created everything + life to make a nice paradoxon

[tool_bot]

SirShreK wrote...
One of the popular requirements for being a god is that He is the Prime creator and exists by himself without the need of being created.

And this isn't arbitrary why?

[tool_bot]

Isabelle Mortello wrote...

Isabelle Mortello wrote...

He looks like Jesus only see through.

I'm serious about this people....listen to me!

must resist making hung jesus joke....

[SirShreK]

tool_bot wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
One of the popular requirements for being a god is that He is the Prime creator and exists by himself without the need of being created.

And this isn't arbitrary why?

Same reason as there is an Uncertainty principle.

[joriandrake]

SirShreK wrote...

GodWood wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

Then who made the thing that made the wheel?

One of the popular requirements for being a god is that He is the Prime creator and exists by himself without the need of being created.

with this I disagree, most gods in most religions were not always "there", they were born in some form, what you speak of is quite specific to a few religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islamism, and these have many connections throughout their time of emerging, some hidden some not

[GodWood]

SirShreK wrote...

GodWood wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...
You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

Then who made the thing that made the wheel?

One of the popular requirements for being a god is that He is the Prime creator and exists by himself without the need of being created.

Then why can't an after life exist without the need of ever being created?

[SirShreK]

joriandrake wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

GodWood wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Siradix wrote...

If the Maker doesn't exist then explain to me, why your spirit returns to the Fade and the Black City exits?

You can always tell who was raised in a Westernized religion by how they assume any kind of afterlife validates a deity.

the presence of afterlife already makes it clear that someone had to make it and get it to work

Oh? How so?

We could now argue about buddhist/shinto and christian and a lot other beliefs and life cycles without any result at all, but for the argument lets just say even a wheel has to be made so it can turn

Then who made the thing that made the wheel?

One of the popular requirements for being a god is that He is the Prime creator and exists by himself without the need of being created.

with this I disagree, most gods in most religions were not always "there", they were born in some form, what you speak of is quite specific to a few religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islamism, and these have many connections throughout their time of emerging, some hidden some not

Yup. That's why I said popular. Some scattered Origins Myths have Gods being born of the world/universe/chaos as weel...

[Burritos]