184 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

SirShreK wrote...

Dude. Before making oh so bold claims.. read the lore!!!

Yeah, I read the post about points from Lore after I posted.  What bold claims did I make that the lore shoots down?

Sure, so the Black City was Golden at one point.  Like I already pointed out, this doesn't actually back up the Chantry's story.  All it means is that The Chantry can interpret history however they want.

Even the fact that The Maker predates The Chantry doesn't particularly matter -- it's like a Christian arguing that God must exist because Jews believed in God, and Jews predated Christians.

[tool_bot]

SirShreK wrote...
Just to put my views on table with the hope that nobody will jump me ():

I think God will never appear. Otherwise bye bye Free Will.

Enough with the westernized gibberish please.

Tiamat was slain by her sons and from her entrails the universe was forged.

[saMoorai]

The Maker Is Neil Patrick Harris

[tool_bot]

SirShreK wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I was wondering when someone would be all like 'Qunatum Jumping!'

Can't go five minutes into a religious discussion without someone butchering physics.

Excuse me? I work with Quantum physics every day. I am a Physicist!

Then you really should be ashamed.

[Rogue Unit]

The Maker is Tinu Eugor.



See what I did there?

[tool_bot]

SirShreK wrote...

Listen I am already tired of this discussion. But I will make a last Ditch attempt.

The point I was making there was:

You cannot question a Physical Law . It is a static principle of nature... (like the universal constants whose values are almost never explainable). 

Do you realize what the difference between a deity and what you just described is?

I think Morrigan touches on it briefly even though she wasn't directly asnwering your current point.

[Tanagaar]

my opinion on this is, that the maker would look like a smoke cloud, or nothing visible at all, just an all mighty entity, pure energy, that can interact with it's environment and take whatever shape it wants. Nothing human, or dwarf or elf...just...something

[tool_bot]

Tanagaar wrote...

my opinion on this is, that the maker would look like a smoke cloud, or nothing visible at all, just an all mighty entity, pure energy, that can interact with it's environment and take whatever shape it wants. Nothing human, or dwarf or elf...just...something

Another worshiper of the great Tiamat?

[Pauravi]

SirShreK wrote...

The point I was making there was:

You cannot question a Physical Law . It is a static principle of nature... (like the universal constants whose values are almost never explainable).

But universal constants are not referred to as physical laws.  I said that you're using Uncertainty Principle in an inappropriate way because you are.  You're comparing three very un-alike things.

Natural Law: Uncertainty Principle.  A theoretical explanation for the behavior of the natural world, whose predictions are backed up by empirical testing.

Universal Constant: Charge of an electron = 1.602*10^-19 Coulombs.  Not explained and, more importantly, not an explanation for anything.  Simply a physical value arrived at and confirmed by repeated experiment.

Unfounded Assertion: God didn't need to be created.  A statement that is not backed up by anything, and whose veracity cannot be measured by any experiment.  The only purpose of such an assertion is to provide a base from which to make arguments that are exempt from the rigors of logic or proof.

Modifié par Pauravi, 05 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .

[GodWood]

The one true god.

[tool_bot]

GodWood wrote...

*snip*

Nay, I say! Do not deny she from which you all came!

[Blacklash93]

SirShreK wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

David Gaider thinks otherwise.

No, he's never confirmed or denied that the Maker exists, and I doubt he ever will.

In your link he's just saying what the Chantry says, which according to several people in DAO is rarely the truth.

Reading comprehension failure?

I said that Maker was not an asspull from the chantry. Even the  AND Old God praying tevinter Imperium believed that the Golden city was built by the maker.

I think you are ignorant of the fact (or did not read the linked post correctly) that the tevinter imprium precedes the Chantry.

Just because the Maker concept existed before the Chantry did doesn't mean it's true. It just wasn't turned into a formal religion yet.

All these individual myths and legends are only a fraction of the whole story. What people believe to be the maker probably exists, though their story and vision of him may not be true. The elven and old gods are the most interesting to me at this point, as they're the ones we know the least about.

My biggest question question, though, is...

Why is this called Dragon Age? What about the story merits that title? I know the Old Gods are Dragons, but they're just... not that impressive if Urthemiel is any indication.

Dude, where in that discussion with D.Cain did I say that the Maker exists (though whatever I may believe)? One reading comprehension failure deserves another I guess.

Ehh... you're right. That'll teach me not to just lightly skim over arguments before I get involved with them.

[DarthCaine]

General Malor wrote...

What about the Urn of Sacred ashes?

Bring Oghren with you. He'll explain.

In short, it's not a miracle, it's just the lyrium

joriandrake wrote...

the whole argument seems to forget that this is a question a bout a fantasy God of a fantasy world, it doesn't matter if one is in RL atheist or if not what religion he/she belongs to

This isn't D&D where gods definitely exist. This is different, nobody knows for certain or has any proof, just like real life.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:23 .

[tool_bot]

DarthCaine wrote...
This isn't D&D where gods definitely exist. This is different, nobody knows for certain or has any proof, just like real life

When dealing with fantasy it's always a safe bet the gods are real and that they did create all the lesser realms.

[DarthCaine]

tool_bot wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

This isn't D&D where gods definitely exist. This is different, nobody knows for certain or has any proof, just like real life

When dealing with fantasy it's always a safe bet the gods are real and that they did create all the lesser realms.

You assume it's a safe bet because in most they do, yet there's no proof they exist in the DA universe.
Just because God exists in Battlestar Galactica, doesn't automatically mean there are gods in other sci-fi unverses.

The thing is Thedas is just a continent, there are other people on other continents that have other religions. Even if gods do exists, I'm pretty sure the Maker is just some BS the Chantry made up.

A soul and an afterlife definitely exist in the DA universe (though I don't believe in them in real life), but that doesn't mean The Maker exists too.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:23 .

[tool_bot]

DarthCaine wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

This isn't D&D where gods definitely exist. This is different, nobody knows for certain or has any proof, just like real life

When dealing with fantasy it's always a safe bet the gods are real and that they did create all the lesser realms.

You assume it's a safe bet because in most they do, yet there's no proof they exist in the DA universe.
Just because God exists in Battlestar Galactica, doesn't automatically mean there are gods in other sci-fi unverses.

The thing is Thedas is just a continent, there are other people on other continents that have other religions. Even if gods do exists, I'm pretty sure the Maker is just some BS the Chantry made up.

A soul and an afterlife definitely exist in the DA universe (though I don't believe in them in real life), but that doesn't mean The Maker exists too.

I agree completely. I'm just saying, in fantasy you can safely assume there's going to be a god however superflous or unjustified he/she/it may be.

[steelfire_dragon]

who is this" Maker" you speak of.



I denounce your maker, and insert my own.



I urinate on your andraste and her pathetic chantry, and bow to the elven gods of old

[AudioEpics]

I like the one with the crown. Although it would be cool if he would be an elf and come judgment day, the elves are suddenly not the second-class citizens anymore

[AudioEpics]

Sigh... OK, only now do I see that this thread has derailed into a real life atheism vs. religion discussion, with arrogance and hostility galore as is usual in such discussions. Too bad, I just wanted to comment on the pictures.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Exactly why would knowing the makers "face" be equal with the proof of his existence?



Think about it. Ye old greeks and romans knew how their gods looked. We (technicly) have a good idea of how Jesus looked. Did that change anything? Not really.





EDIT:

Lyrium is a poor/flawed explanation for the ashes. Not saying that proves the Makers existence, just that the ashes lack any good explanation.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I believe you know what the Maker looks like already. If Dog chases his tail fast enough in backwards circles, he becomes God. All God wants from the people of Thedas are more Mabari crunches with extra melted cheese on top please.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

A better question would be does the maker even exist seeing as how is this mysterious figure that no one has ever seen, say like a certain other mythical figure that people worship in real life that coincidently none of us have ever seen. I think bioware want to go for the unanswered question route, so some people may believe in him but we'll never know if he actually does exist. Sort of basing it more on the concept of real religion.

[superwarrior]

You disbelievers got it all wrong. There was a Maker, and he did abandon Thedas. When he did so, the Golden City turned black because he took all the colours with him to inject into his new universe called Mass Effect. That's the punishment for infidels who already failed to appreciate a great universe and a great game and still find time to whine about 'muddy' colours.

[Mister Mida]

I'm not gonna tell Bioware how to do their jobs but I think there could be the option that the question if the Maker exists will never be answered.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

It'd be interesting if they created a religious deity parody thing in this world. Sort of like the Thedas version of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.