45 réponses à ce sujet

[Dasher10]

Both are only useful against unshielded targets and quite honestly, I feel taht cryo ammo is useless since it has a percent chance of freezing targets that's quite low on ARs and SMGs, enemies often seem to be mostly dead by the time they start freezing and the damage effect won't kick in until the target is frozen whereas shredder ammo works in the same situations but has a damage multiplier in effect for each shot fired, regardless of whether or not a status effect has taken place.

[sinosleep]

Because one provides free CC while the other provides a damage boost without the utility AP, Warp, and inferno ammo provide.

[AntiChri5]

Never underestimate free cc.

[Pacifien]

On Veteran and below, I'm actually fine with Shredder. Kills enemies just that much faster. But for higher difficulties, Cryo gives you the crowd control aspect. Odds are that I'm working on one foe while my squadmates are working on everyone else. Only everyone else is aiming for me. Freezing them helps me out. Plus, then I get to shatter them. What a way for someone to go, man.

[Dasher10]

Still, I've only seen one video if shredder on insanity and that was a squad power. Anybody feel like using HSA on insanity. I don't think that anybody even bothered with using it in the first place and wrote it off before giving it a shot.

[brfritos]

Don't forget that the moment they start freezing, they stop shooting.

[Ares Caesar]

brfritos wrote...

Don't forget that the moment they start freezing, they stop shooting.

Thats a large part of the reason why its also preferable. Couple other issues;

1) Cryo ammo is a regular power, not a bonus power. Saves you from having to waste a bonus power on it, and if you were going to use a bonus ammo power, warp ammo, or AP ammo would be better choices. Not to mention I'd rather max out all 3 of Thanes other skills than waste anything on Shredder.

2) Its awesome to put on squadmates that do less damage than you do, because THEY benefit from the crowd control that it provides just as much as you do. Squadmates dont tend to focus as well on removing enemy by enemy, so its better to have a power that simply removes the enemy from combat more quickly than actually killing them (its like a free pull/neural shock). Not to mention YOU can typically use another power while they use the cryo ammo.

I think thats why people tend to favor Cryo or other ammo powers over Shredder Ammo.... I mean its got its situational value, and like Pacifien mentioned, on veteran or below where protections are much fewer and farther between, you'd get much more value out of it, but on hardcore-insanity it just doesnt pack the same "punch."

*shrugs* just my opinion anyway.

Modifié par Ares Caesar, 03 octobre 2010 - 06:32 .

[Dasher10]

Ares Caesar wrote...

brfritos wrote...

Don't forget that the moment they start freezing, they stop shooting.

Thats a large part of the reason why its also preferable. Couple other issues;

1) Cryo ammo is a regular power, not a bonus power. Saves you from having to waste a bonus power on it, and if you were going to use a bonus ammo power, warp ammo, or AP ammo would be better choices. Not to mention I'd rather max out all 3 of Thanes other skills than waste anything on Shredder.

2) Its awesome to put on squadmates that do less damage than you do, because THEY benefit from the crowd control that it provides just as much as you do. Squadmates dont tend to focus as well on removing enemy by enemy, so its better to have a power that simply removes the enemy from combat more quickly than actually killing them (its like a free pull/neural shock). Not to mention YOU can typically use another power while they use the cryo ammo.

I think thats why people tend to favor Cryo or other ammo powers over Shredder Ammo.... I mean its got its situational value, and like Pacifien mentioned, on veteran or below where protections are much fewer and farther between, you'd get much more value out of it, but on hardcore-insanity it just doesnt pack the same "punch."

*shrugs* just my opinion anyway.

You couldn't max out his first three before LotSB

[Ares Caesar]

Dasher10 wrote...

You couldn't max out his first three before LotSB

And? I'd rather have weaker throw+full warp+full passive(+50% weapon damage) than waste anymore than the 1 point necessary for the full effect of Shredder (which basically means something else isnt getting maxed)

Throw is pretty much useless to me on Thane due to long cooldowns and NO passive effect to cooldowns either. So I'd never max it out anyway, but you HAVE to put 3 points into it anyway to get warp, and warp is a MUST have.

Of course with LotSB I do max out Throw and it comes in handy now, but before I never did and just suffered with him having weaker throw and that worthless point in Shredder ammo.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Simple put it turns squaddies into perma casting cyro blast machines which is a lot better then the trash damage they do (incisor rifle is exception)
Also shep can oneshot freeze with a shotgun even when they still have defenses due to the 8 pellets hitting separately^_^

[SmokeyNinjas]

Ammo power damage only works off the weapons base damage where as i think ragdoll/frozen damage is a 2x multiplyer like resistance bonuses are so the bonus damage would be a lot more then just 20% higher then Heavy Shredder Ammo when you have your weapon upgrades sorted.

Edit.
Note ammo power damage gets no bonus from ragdoll/frozen enemies

Modifié par SmokeyNinjas, 03 octobre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Cryo Ammo is best level 1 ammo power and the best level 10 ammo power (squad) - at least that's what the Devs think; all classes have access to all ammo types except Cryo.

[swn32]

Shredder ammo is worthless. Even the heavy version does just 20% more damage than inferno ammo against health and doesn't have the panic effect.

[lazuli]

brfritos wrote...

Don't forget that the moment they start freezing, they stop shooting.

...and become immune to Biotics, for some reason.  When fully frozen, you can usually toss them around.  It's just that transition phase that prevents Biotics.  Let's hope animations no longer have the ability to negate Biotics like Pull in ME3.

[swk3000]

Because Ammo Powers are useless from a damage perspective. Sure, they're great early game, but they become less and less effective the farther along you get. All ammo powers base their damage bonus on the base damage of the weapon; upgrades don't factor into the equation. So what starts off as a great damage bonus actually become weaker the more upgrades you get.

Keeping a weapon upgraded, and using the right weapon for the right defense, gives you far better results than an Ammo Power does. The only exception to this rule are the Soldier's suite of Ammo Powers: Disruptor, Incendiary, and Cryo. All have CC components that retain their usefulness at all points in the game. Bonus Ammo Powers (Armor Piercing, Warp, and Shredder) are all damage-based, and have diminishing returns.

Of the three CC ammo powers, Cryo Ammo generally wins out for two reasons. First, it lasts longer. Fully evolved, Cryo's CC effect lasts either nearly twice as long (Squad), or over twice as long (improved) as the CC from both Disruptor and Incendiary Ammo. Second, Cryo Ammo actually works against both Organic and Synthetic targets, so you don't have to switch which one you're using based on the mission. This makes Cryo Ammo far simpler to use.

EDIT: I had issues with my cat on my laptop, so I didn't realize that I'd already posted.

Modifié par swk3000, 03 octobre 2010 - 05:48 .

[TheBestClass]

lazuli wrote...

brfritos wrote...

Don't forget that the moment they start freezing, they stop shooting.

...and become immune to Biotics, for some reason.  When fully frozen, you can usually toss them around.  It's just that transition phase that prevents Biotics.  Let's hope animations no longer have the ability to negate Biotics like Pull in ME3.

This is starting to get really annoying actually. Especially when you need that warp explosion.

[cruc1al]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Also shep can oneshot freeze with a shotgun even when they still have defenses due to the 8 pellets hitting separately^_^

This. Cryo is tailored for shotguns and heavy pistols, because both freeze the enemy with almost every shot, and in the case of shotguns, that happens often even on shielded enemies. Particularly useful with vanguards, as you charge+neuralise enemies as quickly with cryo as with incendiary, but the effect of incendiary wears off quickly so you're forced to finish enemies one at a time.

Modifié par cruc1al, 03 octobre 2010 - 09:50 .

[Jubal Harshaw]

I have found Shredder ammo useful on one type of character: a caster sentinel. So much of time you are using powers to strip defenses and you usually get the defense down in one go, so it makes sense for your damage bluff to be used against undefended enemies.



now granted I don't recommend any caster character take an ammo power, but still Shredder ammo is not completely useless..

[Tony Gunslinger]

We're not ripping the shredder ammo... we're... shredding it.

Seriously, I have thought about using it on a caster build as well.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Well, given that in ME2 one of your biggest hurdles as a "caster" is the universal cooldown, adding one more activated power can be one too many. The ammo is passive, which can be nice.



One of the nicest things about Cryo ammo is the effect it has on a mob of charging husks if you start spraying it into the mob. At least with the Mattock, they tend to freeze after one hit.

[Jubal Harshaw]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Well, given that in ME2 one of your biggest hurdles as a "caster" is the universal cooldown, adding one more activated power can be one too many. The ammo is passive, which can be nice.

One of the nicest things about Cryo ammo is the effect it has on a mob of charging husks if you start spraying it into the mob. At least with the Mattock, they tend to freeze after one hit.

I don't recommend putting an ammo power on a caster class because 6 of your squad mates have ammo powers that you can use passively (or 4 if you want to forgo Thane/Grunt which I think makes a lot of sense) freeing up points to spend on core abilities. If you are not going to sink at least 6 points into a ammo, it's not really noticable anyway.  I always take an active power that is really useful at skill rank one, like stasis/energy drain/neuroshock depending on the class/build.

the caster classes are already streached to the breaking point with the number of skills that need points.

.

Modifié par Jubal Harshaw, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:56 .