194 réponses à ce sujet

[RavenousBear]

As Sten would say, "NO."

I have no reason to ever trust this sadistic bastard based on his previous actions, which includes: backstabbing the Couslands at Highever, hiring assassins to kill the Warden, purging the Alienage which had his soldiers kill children in the orphanage for "Fun!"(I wish I could round up all the soldiers involved and give them a trial where their "bravery" will be exposed and they never see the sunlight ever again), and torturing nobles and other citizens with his little toys of torture.

I am almost entirely against the death penalty in RL. In this game however, if you do not kill certain npcs (Caladrius, Vaughan, Howe, etc.) they will continue their cycle of actions until they are stopped, so I cannot let these people walk free. I will not tolerate such behavior from these people and if that means execution (since life in prison does not exist in this game), then it must be done. No torture like they do, just give them a quick death and move on. The last thing I want to do is mimic their behavior.

[Elhanan]

As I mentioned elsewhere, I would make both of them Wardens, then execute the one that survives the meeting with Archie.

[Riona45]

I can't think of a good reason to spare Howe, and my character is a mage. I would simply kill him.

[AlainNagel]

After having played Awakenings with all its emphasis on your party members joining the Grey Wardens, it struck me as odd that Riordan only wanted Loghain to join and not the ones I actually trusted. I understand that that was needed for the story but having more Wardens when there is an actual Archdemon around and a high possibility of the last three Grey Wardens dying in a large battle makes more sense to me.

Loghain possibly dying during the joining isn't a big deal with me. But that would be a though choice with Morrigan (who might consider it for the extra power) or Leliana.

[Sarah1281]

Elhanan wrote...

As I mentioned elsewhere, I would make both of them Wardens, then execute the one that survives the meeting with Archie.

Being a GW makes you pretty much immune from your past crimes so I don't think you'd be able to execute them so much as ensure that they have a little accident.

I have no reason to ever trust this sadistic bastard based on his previous actions, which includes: backstabbing the Couslands at Highever, hiring assassins to kill the Warden, purging the Alienage which had his soldiers kill children in the orphanage for "Fun!"(I wish I could round up all the soldiers involved and give them a trial where their "bravery" will be exposed and they never see the sunlight ever again), and torturing nobles and other citizens with his little toys of torture. 

I wouldn't recruit Howe either but it actually wouldn't be because of these things. It's the fact that, through all of this, he never gives the impression that he sees anything wrong with his actions or wouldn't just be biding his time and waiting for another chance to get to the top. Loghain managed to sincerely convince me that he, should he live, would do what was best for Ferelden and as a GW that would be fighting the Archdemon. Howe was a good fighter and I could see him jumping at the chance to do the ritual the minute someone said the words 'you wouldn't have to die' but I can't see him being worth the trouble and probably betrayal afterwards.

[Sarah1281]

AlainNagel wrote...

After having played Awakenings with all its emphasis on your party members joining the Grey Wardens, it struck me as odd that Riordan only wanted Loghain to join and not the ones I actually trusted. I understand that that was needed for the story but having more Wardens when there is an actual Archdemon around and a high possibility of the last three Grey Wardens dying in a large battle makes more sense to me.

Loghain possibly dying during the joining isn't a big deal with me. But that would be a though choice with Morrigan (who might consider it for the extra power) or Leliana.

 I don't think Morrigan would ever agree to being a Warden. You don't really gain any power beyond sensing darkspawn and being able to kill an Archdemon (but she couldn't have that OGB and doesn't want to die anyway) and you have to give up a lot of freedom. Even if you completely disappear, there's no escaping being a Warden and I think she'd resent that.

With your party, any or all of them could die in the Joining. Loghain's Joining is in lieu of his execution, really, and so that's one thing but you risk losing all of your party members and, logically, only a few (like Oghren) would make it out so you'd really be hurting your cause by weakening your group rather than strengthening it.

[Sarethus]

Interesting responsess everyone, I myself as a Mage character would turn Howe over to the Landsmeet for trial (with proof of his crimes) while my HN characters would be a bit more dicey. If Howe acted meek and did not make any threatening moves (including speaking/insulting my family) he might live but if he even appears to do either he will get sliced in half.



Just to take this thread a bit further (and touching a point KnightofPhoenix made) how would you justify your action in front of the Landsmeet where this is taking place? Why spare one and not the other? Why chop Howe in half in front of them? Conversely could you justify letting Howe become a grey warden when some of the nobles have had relatives harmed by him?

[Sarah1281]

Just to take this thread a bit further (and touching a point KnightofPhoenix made) how would you justify your action in front of the Landsmeet where this is taking place? Why spare one and not the other? Why chop Howe in half in front of them? Conversely could you justify letting Howe become a grey warden when some of the nobles have had relatives harmed by him?

I would justify it by pointing to Loghain who clearly regretted his actions and at the end is talking about how he thought he was the only one who could protect Ferelden but now he realizes that that was you and then looking to Howe who would be muttering something about deserving more and how much he's been deprived of and I think that the Landsmeet could see that only of these people has any inclination to try and redeem themselves if given the opportunity.

[Ayanko]

Playing as Human nobles most of the the time. My response is "HELL NO" He killed my family, including my 5 year old nephew, inoccent. He took my families title, which my noble knew was his. He then paraded his power around. NPC's then go on to talk about how this rat is living in my castle. And even when thats all over, when you confront him he rubs salt in the wound. He deserves to die. But I wont kill his son, I liked him...we became friends. Idk why im speaking in first person here. Meh.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarethus wrote...
 Conversely could you justify letting Howe become a grey warden when some of the nobles have had relatives harmed by him?

If I am a Cousland, I think I have the best argument, I have more reason to want Howe dead than any other noble. And yet I chose otherwise. So at that point, they should really shut up and comply.

As a non-Cousland, it might be a bit tricky, but Loghain has aso harmed nobles. So not sure how you can jsutify killing one and not the other legally speaking. You can of course think that Loghain is a better man than Howe and I would agree, but am not sure how others woudl react to this.  

[Wulfram]

Loghain doesn't seem particularly regretful at the landsmeet. Sad at the necessity of some of the things, but nothing to indicate he wouldn't choose the same again - except of course that he'd take the PC more seriously.
He is only regretful in later dialogue, particularly on the roof of Fort Drakon.
On the other hand, I'm sure Howe would come up with plenty of regrets if he thought it would save his life.

Modifié par Wulfram, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:44 .

[Addai]

According to Duncan's philosophy, which is based on the approach taken in his own recruitment, Howe should be recruited (conscripted) if he could be brought to surrender. A few of my PCs would do so. Not sure if my Cousland would be among them- she was not a happy Warden herself, so may see it as a fitting punishment, but more likely she would provoke Howe into a confrontation so she could cut his head off.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:46 .

[Elhanan]

Personally, I occasionally wonder if Howe had been possessed by a demon. When he mutters deserving more, this is pretty much what was offered by the Sloth Demon in the Circle Tower. At least this would help explain a sudden turning of the man that had been trusted by the Couslands.

[Briiel]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarethus wrote...
 Conversely could you justify letting Howe become a grey warden when some of the nobles have had relatives harmed by him?

If I am a Cousland, I think I have the best argument, I have more reason to want Howe dead than any other noble. And yet I chose otherwise. So at that point, they should really shut up and comply.

As a non-Cousland, it might be a bit tricky, but Loghain has aso harmed nobles. So not sure how you can jsutify killing one and not the other legally speaking. You can of course think that Loghain is a better man than Howe and I would agree, but am not sure how others woudl react to this.  

For me I have not done a full play thru on a non noble... So for that I will leave it as uncertain. I do know that my mage feels betrayed alot . First Jowan ,then Ostagar .

While my human noble went thru Hell at the hands of Howe, She had to leave behind her family and everything she loved. She wanted Justice. She goes to Ostagar and yet another Noble Friend (I am gonna assume here that The Older Nobles were of sorts friends having been in battle together) betray her. This is how I see it tho. :unsure:Not say other views are not Just. I just know that my noble was seeking justice in the end. When Howe made remarks on her family in his dungeon my noble saw red and killed him. Lohgain faired no better.

[Russalka]

Would you let the person who personally humiliated and executed your mother and father, ordered his men to kill your nephew and brother's wife and the people you knew and who lived in your home, to live, to be free and gain glory as a Grey Warden?

Modifié par Russalka, 04 octobre 2010 - 03:04 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Russalka wrote...

Would you let the person who personally humiliated and executed your mother and father, ordered his men to kill your nephew and brother's wife and the people you knew and lived in your home, to live, to be free and gain glory as a Grey Warden?

I'd let him live to serve under the man who will save Ferelden, as he is forgotten and hated by everyone, stripped of all his power and wealth, exiled out of the country when this is all over so he can die alone in the deep roads.

For someone like Howe, this is worse than death.

[Viva la France]

I'd make howe the Couslabd ****.

[Elhanan]

Russalka wrote...

Would you let the person who personally humiliated and executed your mother and father, ordered his men to kill your nephew and brother's wife and the people you knew and lived in your home, to live, to be free and gain glory as a Grey Warden?

Well, if Riordin is considered too old for the DR (which I personally doubt would really stop Morrigan, but I wander....), Howe would only live long enough to slay Archie. He may gain some glory, but he ain't there to savor it, and he at no time would be free to enjoy his life as a Warden. I could live with that, especially knowing that the Arl is much different than the remaining Howe's.

[spell trigger]

I wouldn't spare him, regardless of the Origin.

HN would never be able to forgive his betrayal. Other characters wouldn't recruit him either because Howe has no exceptional skills to offer.

Loghain is a master tactician and a legendary hero of Ferelden, so most of my characters will recruit him. They believe that Loghain's experience and knowledge will be very useful while fighting the Blight or while rebuilding the order.

On the other hand, Howe's reputation is nowhere near Loghain's level, so I doubt that Riordan would even suggest to conscript him in the first place.

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

Personally, I occasionally wonder if Howe had been possessed by a demon. When he mutters deserving more, this is pretty much what was offered by the Sloth Demon in the Circle Tower. At least this would help explain a sudden turning of the man that had been trusted by the Couslands.

That is an interesting thought, though he could simply be your everday sociopath with sadistic tendencies that, once he gets some power, he can be more open about.

[Russalka]

His family is still around, he would no doubt find ways for new evil plots.

[Costin_Razvan]

As any other Origin then HN, yes I would make him a Grey Warden without a doubt. The only reason I ever had to kill him was that "He is in my way". I really don't care for those in the Dungeons.



And "facepalm" at those who call Howe a sociopath. Seriously? Then all those leaders in our history who wanted power and did far worse/ or equally worse things as Howe are sociopaths. Really?



As for a HN....I first want to know what the hell really happened in the Rebellion before I make any calls.

[tool_bot]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
And "facepalm" at those who call Howe a sociopath. Seriously? Then all those leaders in our history who wanted power and did far worse/ or equally worse things as Howe are sociopaths. Really?

If the shoe fits. Buy a pair.

[Bethann]

NO. I would not make Howe a greywarden as a crusland I would have to excute him for what he did to my mother and farther. plus lets not forget that your mother gave your noble P.C. the key to the family volt and told you to yake the family blade and seaver his trecherous head. and thats what I do in every game I've played. I take the family soward and Excute him with it. Also I agree that my female P.C. is not happy about being a GreyWarden at all.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

As any other Origin then HN, yes I would make him a Grey Warden without a doubt. The only reason I ever had to kill him was that "He is in my way". I really don't care for those in the Dungeons.

And "facepalm" at those who call Howe a sociopath. Seriously? Then all those leaders in our history who wanted power and did far worse/ or equally worse things as Howe are sociopaths. Really?

As for a HN....I first want to know what the hell really happened in the Rebellion before I make any calls.

Uh, yes really.  You might be confusing sociopath with psychopath.  Of course, Howe is in the running for the latter, but sociopaths are high functioning, sometimes very successful people.  The point being that they have no conscience or sense of identification with others and are only out for themselves.  I would say that Howe fits quite well, and runs to the sadistic end of the spectrum.  There is banter suggesting that he got off on torture, for instance, and more than one person refers to his "sick mind."

Edit:  Oh, and *facepalm* at the idea that just because you are a "leader in history", that means you're somehow immune from being called a sociopath or worse.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 octobre 2010 - 03:41 .