194 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

If the King called the Couslands to join the forces at Ostagar, and Howe eliminated a potion of them to join including their commander, I would say he betrayed the King. But their is no doubt that Howe is vermin, and guilty of mutiple crimes: he is voiced by Tim Curry after all.... *Dead things float*

Modifié par Elhanan, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:51 .

[ashwind]

As a human noble, there can be no sparing Howe he dies. The only hard decision to make is, how painful should his death be.

[Sarah1281]

All of the Highever forces that were going to Ostagar had already left. The ones left in the castle were the skeleton crew. Killing one man that was going to be at Ostagar does not hurt the Ostagar effort and isn't betraying Cailan. Frankly, between the slaving, torturing, massacring, ect. I think we have enough to legitimately blame Howe for without needing to stretch things so he's somehow betraying Cailan as well.

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BAH. Neutrality has nothing to do with allowing helpless women to be abducted, raped and possibly killed.

Killing nobles to save elvish damsels in distress is a good way to get the wardens kicked out of the country, unfortunately

Who said anything about killing? He interfered at the Tower. He interfered at Orzammar. He could have interfered in the Alienage but chose not to.

[Elhanan]

The Teryn was not going to travel alone, so those forces were also lost. Doubt if their families would call them unimportant losses. heh! Based on mod downloads, I guess many folks consider Ser Gilmore a major loss to the game.

Reminds me; need to take Dog on the rescue trip once again just to see him Overwhelm Howe just once....

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

Who said anything about killing? He interfered at the Tower. He interfered at Orzammar. He could have interfered in the Alienage but chose not to.

I don't really see what he could have done

[Elhanan]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't really see what he could have done

Actually, looking back on it, I wish he would have run to the Batcave (ie; Warden's vault), gotten more arms and Joining stuff and created an Alienage full of potential Wardens.

[Bratinov]

Sure, and if he survives I'll hand him over to Avernus to be experimented on.

[Sarah1281]

Elhanan wrote...

The Teryn was not going to travel alone, so those forces were also lost. Doubt if their families would call them unimportant losses. heh! Based on mod downloads, I guess many folks consider Ser Gilmore a major loss to the game.
Reminds me; need to take Dog on the rescue trip once again just to see him Overwhelm Howe just once....

Gilmore wouldn't be going to Ostagar and the grief of all the families of the soldiers who were never going to Ostagar? Still not in any way betraying Cailan. And Bryce wasn't supposed to travel alone. He was going to travel with Howe's forces.

Actually, looking back on it, I wish he would have run to the Batcave (ie; Warden's vault), gotten more arms and Joining stuff and created an Alienage full of potential Wardens.

Except that you were the only one with any sort of training or skill which means that you were the only one he was interested in. Everyone else would be a burden to the Wardens instead of an asset and he didn't need to make anyone a Warden on the spot as he could take them to Ostagar to do that.

[AnimaTempli101]

No. He dies. Simple as that.

[jpdipity]

Howe dies for his crimes including the murder of a Teryn, kidnapping and the torture of nobles - to name a few crimes.



Loghain dies to suppress a potential civil war and/or murder of my PC's choice to rule Fereldan. His motives during the game are unclear and suspicious, to say the least, but cannot be proven to be criminal by my PC.



Riordan suggests that there "may be compelling" reasons to make Loghain a Warden, but fails to make any real appeal to my PC to do so nor does he offer a swaying argument or even a single reason to make Loghain a Warden. Furthermore, he makes no objection when I disagree prior to lopping off Loghain's head. As a Senior Warden, he could have stepped in, but chose not to do so. So, unless Riordan wants to put forth more effort, my PC really is not swayed by his seemingly baseless statement.

[Sarah1281]

As a Senior Warden, he could have stepped in, but chose not to do so.

Could he have? He made his suggestion but you or Alistair (and if it's Alistair Riordan doesn't even get to interject) are the ones duel Loghain. If you or your champion win then you are the one left deciding Loghain's fate. How can Riordan tell you that the fact that the terms of the duel mean that Loghain's fate is in your hands is nonvalid because he was a Warden for longer? Seriously, think about how well that would go over.

[tool_bot]

Bratinov wrote...

Sure, and if he survives I'll hand him over to Avernus to be experimented on.

Why does everything think inhumane punishment is alright so long as the victim is 'bad?'

Sarah1281 wrote...

How can Riordan tell you that the fact that the terms of the duel mean that Loghain's fate is in your hands is nonvalid because he was a Warden for longer? Seriously, think about how well that would go over.

Off topic but, this is also why my Wardens never take up Riordan's offer. Sure he has more experience then any of them but this also isn't his operation.

[thesuperdarkone]

tool_bot wrote...

Bratinov wrote...

Sure, and if he survives I'll hand him over to Avernus to be experimented on.

Why does everything think inhumane punishment is alright so long as the victim is 'bad?'

I wouldn't call it torture. I'd call it him benefiting the wardens with new research. He gets punished, and the Wardens end up benefiting in some way. I say that seems a bit just, considering what he did. I'd chose jury, imprisonment, and when my Cousland is hero of Ferelden, I would rub it in his face, and let him wallow in his hatred for a few days, and then execute him.

[Melca36]

He killed a child. That alone is enough for me to kill him.

[ObserverStatus]

Nah, Howe is too much of a butthorn.

[Sarah1281]

Melca36 wrote...

He killed a child. That alone is enough for me to kill him.

So do many Wardens. I think context is really needed before we go off lynching everyone who sacrifced Connor.

[thesuperdarkone]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

He killed a child. That alone is enough for me to kill him.

So do many Wardens. I think context is really needed before we go off lynching everyone who sacrifced Connor.

 

I think they mean that Howe killed an innocent child who didn't do anything, which is bad, unlike Connor, who is an abomination that nearly or did destroy Redcliffe, so I say that the Warden has one up on Howe.

[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

He killed a child. That alone is enough for me to kill him.

So do many Wardens. I think context is really needed before we go off lynching everyone who sacrifced Connor.

That is different though, there is justification behind killing Conner, he is possessed.
Howe though, no not really for anything he does.

[tool_bot]

thesuperdarkone wrote...
I wouldn't call it torture. I'd call it him benefiting the wardens with new research. He gets punished, and the Wardens end up benefiting in some way. I say that seems a bit just, considering what he did. I'd chose jury, imprisonment, and when my Cousland is hero of Ferelden, I would rub it in his face, and let him wallow in his hatred for a few days, and then execute him.

Yes but how does he did wrong suddenly come out to any kind of torture (I don't really think you could call Avernus' research anything else) is perfectly justifiable?

I understand what Howe did and how it could affect a Cousland (or any npc that does a little digging) and wouldn't spare him short of it being the deciding factor of stopping the Blight. I just don't see why we should go all Punisher on him.

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

He killed a child. That alone is enough for me to kill him.

So do many Wardens. I think context is really needed before we go off lynching everyone who sacrifced Connor.

That is different though, there is justification behind killing Conner, he is possessed.
Howe though, no not really for anything he does.

Which is why the context of 'Oh, Oren was an innocent who died because he was a Cousland' instead of a blank 'Anyone who kills a child deserves death' which is what they said.

[Dean_the_Young]

No context! None!





I'd save Howe, but only so I can squirm in disgust and loathing as he delivers the killing blow to the ArchDemon, spitefully stealing eternal glory putting himself beyond all condemnation in history as he will be remembered as a Grey Warden, another of a band including all from Kings to kin-slayers, and his name will live in heroic legends centuries after everyone forgets the crimes against the Couslands and everyone else.

[tool_bot]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'd save Howe, but only so I can squirm in disgust and loathing as he delivers the killing blow to the ArchDemon, spitefully stealing eternal glory putting himself beyond all condemnation in history as he will be remembered as a Grey Warden, another of a band including all from Kings to kin-slayers, and his name will live in heroic legends centuries after everyone forgets the crimes against the Couslands and everyone else.

Also why Loghain doesn't get a free ride.

Modifié par tool_bot, 04 octobre 2010 - 09:48 .

[blothulfur]

I think it's a mistake to bring our enlightened morality to our characters, it's a different age and they are operating under pressures we hopefully will never endure, I always played my cousland as I thought he would react as this is roleplaying and has nothing to do with what I think. My dwarves grew up with worse **** and in enduring became strong but even they did not act rationally all the time. And would they be men if they did or machines.

[tool_bot]

blothulfur wrote...

I think it's a mistake to bring our enlightened morality to our characters, it's a different age and they are operating under pressures we hopefully will never endure, I always played my cousland as I thought he would react as this is roleplaying and has nothing to do with what I think. My dwarves grew up with worse **** and in enduring became strong but even they did not act rationally all the time. And would they be men if they did or machines.

It depends on what kind of character you're roleplaying. Such ideals and ideas aren't necessarily unheard of. We already know you're character is unique (surviving his Origin, the Joining, ect) so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine their morals are unique to. This is especially true of either a Human Noble (from what  I understand ofthe Origin) and Mage who can be played as having never dealt with the more sordid parts of life and have access to works of philosophy from all around Thedas and a much higher education.

Just my two cents anyway.