141 réponses à ce sujet

[livonia01]

I've played BG, did not play KOTOR. 
I really like BG companions. Their dialogues and reactions matched very well their character and background. 

I was quite disappointed with companions in DA. I personally find that only 2 companions conversations and reactions matched their personality and background. It was Sten and Zevran. Actually, only Sten really based his opinion on Warden's ability to gather an army and fight the Archedemon.  
I personally found it's very annoying that the so-called "good" companions changed their opinion about the Warden based on very small side-quests. And most of all, that in some cases the changes were quite significant.  
After playing DA a couple of times, the last one was solo, I felt that I was surrounded by the  bunch of whiny high-maintenance freeloaders (Sten and Zevran excluded). 
 
I hope that in DA 2 companions reactions will be better matched to the importance of the quests ( I do not mean personal quests) and that I will not get the impression that I'm dealing with people who suffer from split-personality disorder. 

I apologize profoundly if you find this message offensive. It's just my humble opinion.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Oh boy. Who would have thought that talking about Carth's whining would ruffle so many feathers? I hereby apologize for causing a stir by whining over whiny companions...correction: companions who I humbly thought were whiny. I will endeavor not to offend anyone by ever pointing out such sensitive matters in the future.

*sigh*

[Ayanko]

Hmm, maybe companions that react to friendly fire?

Hawke: -Uses Explosion everyone in range gets hit-

Bethany:- WHAT AM I TARGET PRACTICE?

[Fishy]

I did not like Allistair whining because of the approbation system.You just could not tell him to shush it without having a huge negative hit.But with the new bioware approbation meter in DA2 .. I might like whiney character.


Allistair remind me of that friend of your girlfriend.The annoying,stinky and not enough shy chick that steal your beer and fart on your couch and complain and complain and curse everey 3 word.The big melodrama queen.

Hell the first time we met she did not say ..
-Hello i'm ...

No it's was

-WHAT UP MAN!!!!!!!!!!!! SO IT'S YOU WHO *CENSORED* MY FRIEND EH ? **** MAN!!!! I wanted to seeh YEH!DO YOU HAVE BEER? i need to complain HELL YEAH!!!

Modifié par Suprez30, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:27 .

[RobotNixon]

Ayanko wrote...

Hmm, maybe companions that react to friendly fire?
Hawke: -Uses Explosion everyone in range gets hit-
Bethany:- WHAT AM I TARGET PRACTICE?

"SHEPARD! STOP SHOOTING ME YOU IDIOT!"

Modifié par RobotNixon, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:36 .

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I liked Carth.

I did too. I thought he came off as a good friend of the male PC, which also typically wasn't something people thought.

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...

I don't quite get the whole "whiny" companion complaint- sure sometimes they might moan about their problems, but maybe the solution is to let the PC whine right back? Sort of how if Alistair is moaning about Duncan, if you're a Cousland you can basically shut him up by saying how your whole family was murdered.

I'd just like it if in the future the companions occasionally reacted more to how the PC was doing rather than constantly needing the PC to play therapist. Origins did this better than most, with little things like in Witch Hunt where Ariane reacts to the Warden if he has Morrigan's ring was absolutely awesome, IMO.

The issue, fundamentally, is that there is a presumption in RPG building that the game cannot make assumptions about your PC. So having other NPCs play therapist essentially means that you're characterizing your mental state through dialogue, and Bioware tries very hard to avoid this. It's why in ME you have Shepard being critized as an incredibly bland character (because he can either be neutral, unhinged or nice). It's why you have no flavour options in DA:O except for things like the Cousland choice which happen to you in game (and notice how you only have one flavour with those, i.e. the death of my family was traumatic).

I agree with Avellone as to how an RPG should work, but then in general his attitude to writing characters has always been much more restrictive than the RPG mainstream.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Oh boy. Who would have thought that talking about Carth's whining would ruffle so many feathers? I hereby apologize for causing a stir by whining over whiny companions...correction: companions who I humbly thought were whiny. I will endeavor not to offend anyone by ever pointing out such sensitive matters in the future.
*sigh*

*snerk*  Hey, Carth has a lot of fans.  Personally, I found Carth and Anomen insufferable, Alistair and Garrus adorable, and wanted to stab-kill Aerie on sight.   To each their own, right? 

I don't have a problem with characters with issues.  Issues are fine.  They make characters interesting.  What I personally find annoying is characters who try to out-angst the PC by continually bringing up some issue of theirs and expecting sympathy.  Generally speaking, the PC's life will always suck the most.  The PC will be the one who was killed, resurrected, soul-eaten, mind-wiped, child of a dead god, survived a brutal attack, etc.  And then you've got some NPC moping about their dead ex, or daddy issues, or god knows what--a little perspective is nice 

The dead ex/estranged child thing is the worst.  I am immune to that trope now thanks to BioWare--it elicits rage-quits rather than sympathy.  Zev got off light--I still like him despite his dead ex trope.  Thane...got deaded.  Oops.

[In Exile]

I think we need an lampshaded therapist line in DA2. Like how Shepard can complain that whenever he asks someone for help, there's always some kind of catch; no one ever says "Sure, I'd love to help, let's go right now." (Mordin's recruitment mission).

[Sable Rhapsody]

In Exile wrote...

I think we need an lampshaded therapist line in DA2. Like how Shepard can complain that whenever he asks someone for help, there's always some kind of catch; no one ever says "Sure, I'd love to help, let's go right now." (Mordin's recruitment mission).

It might be meta, but I kind of adore lampshading.  Like the PC's potential rant in BG.  Or the line from the captain in Denerim about people voluntarily attacking you.  Or that line during Mordin's mission--it made me love Mordin forever.  But it's hard not to love Mordin.  In general, I like people who lampshade.

...except Kaidan, I guess.  He had a line lampshading whining.  But I was mostly disturbed by how he thought my Shep wanted in his pants despite barely being polite to him, so I Virmired him instead   I'm a mean, mean gamer.

[Sylvius the Mad]

My reaction to the companions is vastly different every time I play the game. Morrigan has been someone I find pathetic, someone I respect, someone I fear, someone I pity - all depending on who my PC was and how Morrigan reacted to him or her.

[Ulicus]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Oh boy. Who would have thought that talking about Carth's whining would ruffle so many feathers?

... did you have to mention feathers? 

Modifié par Ulicus, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

Ulicus wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Oh boy. Who would have thought that talking about Carth's whining would ruffle so many feathers?

... did you have to mention feathers? 

I admit I had that one coming.

[Ulicus]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Oh boy. Who would have thought that talking about Carth's whining would ruffle so many feathers?

... did you have to mention feathers? 

I admit I had that one coming.

Hee!

As for Carth... like I said, I dunno. I usually agreed with him. I thought his suspicions were totally justified. When he pulled his whole "You're a neophyte padawan whose been handed the responsibility of looking for
these Star Maps!? That's not normal! Don't they need to, you know, train you more?" thing... my overwhelming response was: "Yeah, it's messed up. I don't understand it at all... there's something strange going on."

But all Revan could say was "Go away and shut up!" or "You don't want me here?"... and I can't really blame Carth for responding the way he did to that kind of thing. *Shrug*

Still, different strokes and all that.

Modifié par Ulicus, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:18 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

I wouldnt want the characters to lose their depth. But on the other hand, it might be interesting to have a secure, straight laced confident companion. Our heroes always have scars of their own, maybe we could have a hero to our hero?

[Sable Rhapsody]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

I wouldnt want the characters to lose their depth. But on the other hand, it might be interesting to have a secure, straight laced confident companion. Our heroes always have scars of their own, maybe we could have a hero to our hero?

So...what Casavir was supposed to be, then   He came off to me as a tremendous CREEPTASTIC CREEPER, but that's because the default PC age is around 18-20, and he's trying to romance you.  Yecch.

But back on topic, I'd love a more competent, badass, less neurotic party member.  Someone like Canderous.  Though to be 100% honest, functional people tend to appear boring given the strange menagerie of people who follow you about in most BioWare games.  Just look at poor Jacob in ME2.  Relegated to being "that sane dude."  

[dielveio]

I really like The Warlock from NWN2. We should have a companion or two like him.

[upsettingshorts]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

I wouldnt want the characters to lose their depth. But on the other hand, it might be interesting to have a secure, straight laced confident companion.

Had one, popularly dismissed as "boring"

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:32 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

Yeah i wasnt a fan of Casavir, but that may well because he wasnt a hot hot hottie. Thats very important

That could be a point. Introduce a butt ugly quase modo character with the best personality ever. See how that pans out

Failing that, I wouldnt mind another Bishop

[NamiraWilhelm]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

I wouldnt want the characters to lose their depth. But on the other hand, it might be interesting to have a secure, straight laced confident companion.

Had one, popularly dismissed as "boring"

hmmm, i suppose the only thing needy about him was his wanting something from Shepard. But there you have it people, they make a secure character, and most of us avoid him like scale itch

[upsettingshorts]

I thought Jacob would be one of the few companions in any Bioware game that would be awesome to have as a friend. Worthy of a bro-fist. Would definitely get drinks at the Citadel with him.



But that's apparently not interesting enough for other people.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I ended up quite liking Jacob. Not enough to stop mercilessly making fun of him. but still. I could go for more badass in my NPC companions. Companions like Wrex, Sten, Canderous, Mordin. They still had interesting character nuances and issues with the PC, but they didn't feel like they needed babysitting.

As opposed to the rest of my ME2 crew.  I loved my ME2 crew.  Loved them to bits.  Still, sometimes it felt like I was babysitting a bunch of kids rather than leading an elite crew.  SO MANY FAMILY ISSUES. 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:40 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Had one, popularly dismissed as "boring"

He wasn't boring.  He was a dick.

Plus he had a freakishly long torso, and no hips.  Just a weird looking dude.

[upsettingshorts]

Jacob didn't strike me as dickish. But anyway, I was stating the popular impression of him and not trying to cover all the bases.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Ulicus wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Oh boy. Who would have thought that talking about Carth's whining would ruffle so many feathers?

... did you have to mention feathers? 

I admit I had that one coming.

Hee!

As for Carth... like I said, I dunno. I usually agreed with him. I thought his suspicions were totally justified. When he pulled his whole "You're a neophyte padawan whose been handed the responsibility of looking for
these Star Maps!? That's not normal! Don't they need to, you know, train you more?" thing... my overwhelming response was: "Yeah, it's messed up. I don't understand it at all... there's something strange going on."

But all Revan could say was "Go away and shut up!" or "You don't want me here?"... and I can't really blame Carth for responding the way he did to that kind of thing. *Shrug*

Still, different strokes and all that.

Yeah, well played with the feathers thing. hehe

I'd like to point out that I "like" Carth as well, if that's the point. Which doesn't change the fact that I found him whiney, especially considering he was a battle-hardened soldier (understatement) and old enough to have a grown-up son. His disastrous life and its emotional scars weren't that difficult to sympathize with, but the manner in which he reflected his issues came off as whiny. You'd think a guy who has seen it all would develop a more sensible attitude. How he handled the conversations with other companions was great, but his exchanges with Revan were a lot different. Wonder where he got the idea that Revan was there as a shoulder to cry on.