120 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

Everyone, or almost everyone, begun complaining about how easy it was for everyone to survive the suicide mission and how Bioware took the easy way out/ catered to the imbecils and cretins in our midsts.
Now...what if Bioware is simply helping us? What if they are just allowing us to shape our team for ME3 more easily?

Maybe others have postulated this in the past on the boards but I am hoping it is a sign of the fact that bioware might have the quads to actually tell people "hey,you killed everyone in ME2? Well....deal with much less content in ME3 and a much smaller squad...after all we did give you all the possible aid and user friendliness in ME2 to save anyone you wanted." And thus we will not have to deal with a whole new squad scenario for ME3

Here's to hope....the last goddess.

[Elyvern]

That depends....on whether there are such examples in other games out in the market, I think.... Otherwise, such behavior from a game developer sound pretty novel to me.

[Bruno Helms]

I R stoopid. MA hole skwad dyde in soowyside mission.

[Saibh]

Surviving the suicide mission didn't seem so easy. Yes, once you knew what you had to do, you could perfectly plan it out, but who among us with no prior knowledge always upgraded their ship, always chose the right specialist (especially with Miranda telling you that anyone would do), knew exactly who to make fire team leader, who to take with them when, and waited until the very end of the game to go on the Derelict Reaper and immediately pursued the Omega-4 Relay?



With no prior knowledge, that seems pretty difficult.

[smudboy]

crimzontearz wrote...

Everyone, or almost everyone, begun complaining about how easy it was for everyone to survive the suicide mission and how Bioware took the easy way out/ catered to the imbecils and cretins in our midsts.
Now...what if Bioware is simply helping us? What if they are just allowing us to shape our team for ME3 more easily?

Maybe others have postulated this in the past on the boards but I am hoping it is a sign of the fact that bioware might have the quads to actually tell people "hey,you killed everyone in ME2? Well....deal with much less content in ME3 and a much smaller squad...after all we did give you all the possible aid and user friendliness in ME2 to save anyone you wanted." And thus we will not have to deal with a whole new squad scenario for ME3

Here's to hope....the last goddess.

They're not, because they can all 1) die, 2) not be loyal, 3) (almost all) not be recruited, 4) not even be imported.

ME3 must deal with all variations per variable.

ME3 will have a brand new squad, with potential missions a la LOTSB for temporary cameo squad members.

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

Surviving the suicide mission didn't seem so easy. Yes, once you knew what you had to do, you could perfectly plan it out, but who among us with no prior knowledge always upgraded their ship, always chose the right specialist (especially with Miranda telling you that anyone would do), knew exactly who to make fire team leader, who to take with them when, and waited until the very end of the game to go on the Derelict Reaper and immediately pursued the Omega-4 Relay?

With no prior knowledge, that seems pretty difficult.

This.

/thread

[crimzontearz]

Uh...people told you that you needed all the upgrades and the descriptions for the specialists screamed "pick me" fr the right job. I and many others saved the entire crew and squad at the first try or simply reloaded if they made a mistake. Seriously it was not that hard.

[Blackbelt749]

My first playthrough, 3 people died. On my second, 1 person died(I mistakenly thought Mordin would work in the vents. Guess I should realize biology isn't the same as electronics) After that, every playthrough everyone survived(this is without spoilers. Only time I used the spoilers was to see the Shepard Dies ending). Not too bad a learning curve, and it made it a lot of fun to play through again. I think the SM was designed very well, and I hope that if you don't have the squadmates survive in SM, then you don't get them in ME3. Big decisions carrying over...

[crimzontearz]

smudboy wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Everyone, or almost everyone, begun complaining about how easy it was for everyone to survive the suicide mission and how Bioware took the easy way out/ catered to the imbecils and cretins in our midsts.
Now...what if Bioware is simply helping us? What if they are just allowing us to shape our team for ME3 more easily?

Maybe others have postulated this in the past on the boards but I am hoping it is a sign of the fact that bioware might have the quads to actually tell people "hey,you killed everyone in ME2? Well....deal with much less content in ME3 and a much smaller squad...after all we did give you all the possible aid and user friendliness in ME2 to save anyone you wanted." And thus we will not have to deal with a whole new squad scenario for ME3

Here's to hope....the last goddess.

They're not, because they can all 1) die, 2) not be loyal, 3) (almost all) not be recruited, 4) not even be imported.

ME3 must deal with all variations per variable.

ME3 will have a brand new squad, with potential missions a la LOTSB for temporary cameo squad members.

Or Bioware might have the quads to actually make people deal with the consequences of their actions. Call me optimistic.
Oh and smud, if you can, stay out of my threads. Your responses end up causing flamewars that get threads locked I'd rather keep mine open

[brfritos]

Saibh wrote...

Surviving the suicide mission didn't seem so easy. Yes, once you knew what you had to do, you could perfectly plan it out, but who among us with no prior knowledge always upgraded their ship, always chose the right specialist (especially with Miranda telling you that anyone would do), knew exactly who to make fire team leader, who to take with them when, and waited until the very end of the game to go on the Derelict Reaper and immediately pursued the Omega-4 Relay?

With no prior knowledge, that seems pretty difficult.

I didn't loose anyone in my first playthrough, is fairly easy if you pay attention in the characters descriptions and think a little.

For example, many choose to pick Garrus for going in the tubes based on what he was in ME1, but the game says that he's a master with weapons, not tech.
Tali is regarded as one of the best techs and Legion is a geth, so he can hack almost anything.

In the Long Walk section I never choosed Miranda, was always Jack or Samara, for example.
Again, you just have to read the characters description and choose accordling, not based in the personallity, but their usefulness.
Jack is described as one of the most powerful human biotics alive, who's better to lead the biotic bubble, her or Miranda (remember this is your first playthrough, so you don't know anything about them)?

Only after some playthroughs I tried to choose the order and then I started to loose people.
The suicide mission is not difficult.

Modifié par brfritos, 04 octobre 2010 - 01:57 .

[Saibh]

crimzontearz wrote...

Uh...people told you that you needed all the upgrades and the descriptions for the specialists screamed "pick me" fr the right job. I and many others saved the entire crew and squad at the first try or simply reloaded if they made a mistake. Seriously it was not that hard.

Anyone who wanted everyone to survive reloaded. I think you need to turn back the clock to release date and look at all of the "OMG this person died!" "Aaaah Mordin, stop dying on me!" (x100). People had a lot of difficulty with it before we all figure out what to do.

Also, I need to point out that I think there's a pretty good chance we could get some of our squad back--after all, there's no need to worry about continuity anymore. The only reason the VS didn't return for ME2 was because they said they wanted them available for ME3. And in that situation, one of them is definitely dead.

[Saibh]

brfritos wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Surviving the suicide mission didn't seem so easy. Yes, once you knew what you had to do, you could perfectly plan it out, but who among us with no prior knowledge always upgraded their ship, always chose the right specialist (especially with Miranda telling you that anyone would do), knew exactly who to make fire team leader, who to take with them when, and waited until the very end of the game to go on the Derelict Reaper and immediately pursued the Omega-4 Relay?

With no prior knowledge, that seems pretty difficult.

I didn't loose anyone in my first playthrough, is fairly easy if you pay attention in the characters description and think a little.

For example, many choose to pick Garrus for going in the tubes based on what he was in ME1, but the game says that he's a master with weapons, not tech.
Tali is regarded as one of the best techs and Legion is a geth, so he can hack almost anything.

The suicide mission is not difficult.

There's a difference between carefully planning out what was given to you, and being able to strategically ensure your squad's survival and having the SM give you a bunch of random variables that makes survival next to impossible. I'm saying that it's not a mere matter of saving Wrex through Persuasion, as in ME1. There's a lot that goes on, and it's not a clear and simple path.

[XavierHollywood]

all of my team and crew survived my first time as well. Each of the character descriptions tell you who to pick...It isnt Rocket Science. They say they need someone tech savy for the vents...Ok, we kno Tali is a tech savant and in Legions description it says hes perfect for it. So check for that, not much thought needed.



The first (and second) fire team , it just screams Garrus, or Miri. Hell, Miranda's class specific skill is either Cerberus Leader (ding ding ding) or Cerberus Tactician (ding ding ding x2)



The biotic field, why would you pick anyone other then Samara or Jack when it is continually stressed whenever you are around them how powerful their biotics are.



I enjoyed the game immensely, would have loved a longer suicide mission (nit picking here), and i can understand how you can lose your crew. I was lucky my first time having already finished everything else. How you can lose your squad mates though I find baffling to be honest (except the whole 'hold the line' part with Mordin...that was unpredictable).

[XavierHollywood]

all of my team and crew survived my first time as well. Each of the character descriptions tell you who to pick...It isnt Rocket Science. They say they need someone tech savy for the vents...Ok, we kno Tali is a tech savant and in Legions description it says hes perfect for it. So check for that, not much thought needed.

The first (and second) fire team , it just screams Garrus, or Miri. Hell, Miranda's class specific skill is either Cerberus Leader (ding ding ding) or Cerberus Tactician (ding ding ding x2)

The biotic field, why would you pick anyone other then Samara or Jack when it is continually stressed whenever you are around them how powerful their biotics are.  Why chance it with people that are already established to be inferior in biotics?

I enjoyed the game immensely, would have loved a longer suicide mission (nit picking here), and i can understand how you can lose your crew. I was lucky my first time having already finished everything else before doing the IFF. How you can lose your squad mates though I find baffling to be honest (except the whole 'hold the line' part with Mordin...that was unpredictable).

Modifié par XavierHollywood, 04 octobre 2010 - 01:55 .

[crimzontearz]

Survival near impossible.....what? Are you kidding? It takes just a modicum of common sense....oh and yeah the ability to read

[Saibh]

crimzontearz wrote...

Survival near impossible.....what? Are you kidding? It takes just a modicum of common sense....oh and yeah the ability to read

I wasn't clear, then.

I said there's a difference between carefully planning out your squads survival with the information given to you and the SM throwing in a bunch of random variables to make survival next to impossible. I used one too many "and"s.

Modifié par Saibh, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:06 .

[brfritos]

Saibh wrote...

There's a difference between carefully planning out what was given to you, and being able to strategically ensure your squad's survival and having the SM give you a bunch of random variables that makes survival next to impossible. I'm saying that it's not a mere matter of saving Wrex through Persuasion, as in ME1. There's a lot that goes on, and it's not a clear and simple path.

Yes, there's a lot of variables, but they aren't difficult.

Of course I'm a very conservative player, I did everything before going to the Omega-4 relay.
Did every loyalty mission, side-quest and researched every ship upgrade.

The game puts a lot of fear on you before going for the relay.

Of course this was my first time ever, so my pistol, shields, shotgun and snipers didn't have all the upgrades, for example.
This is funny, BTW, my two inicial palythoughs are preserved without editing or replaying, with all the faults preserved and sometimes I look at them and think "how the hell you didn't see that?" LOL

[Daerog]

If people wanted a good ending and make it all dramatic by having people die, the game is letting you do that. You can have people die. You could also have everyone alive and have a perfect mission if you want. I don't see the problem. Should BioWare have forced certain characters to die? Why? To force people to watch favorite characters to die? You can still do that, or not if you don't want to.
I don't consider the suicide mission lazy at all. There are many outcomes that you can create.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:11 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

It wasn't that easy to keep EVERYONE alive. The suicide mission could have been more complex, but it definitely isn't created for idiots, there are lots of unforeseen ways your crew mates can died.

[Exile Isan]

Saibh wrote...
There's a difference between carefully planning out what was given to you, and being able to strategically ensure your squad's survival and having the SM give you a bunch of random variables that makes survival next to impossible. I'm saying that it's not a mere matter of saving Wrex through Persuasion, as in ME1. There's a lot that goes on, and it's not a clear and simple path.

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but my first time through the SM everyone survived with no reloads. I chose Tali for the vents, because you recruited in the first place because she a master tech specialist. Garrus' team on Omega sought him out because he got things done, he's a good leader. So he lead both fire teams. Samara has been using biotics for hundreds of years more than humans have been in space so she was the biotic. I sent Jacob back the crew. And I took Samara and Miranda with me to fight the baby Reaper.

Maybe it's because I've been playing Bioware games for years now, and I've grown not to trust them and to understand that certain things will trigger something, good or bad, so I put off getting the Reaper IFF, until I had everything completed as I suspected the Reaper IFF would be that something.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:34 .

[pacer90]

Miranda's comment threw me off. I assumed anyone with a basic grasp of that expertise could do that task.



Ex: Grunt was combat, so he could lead the fire team. Mordin was engineer, so he could do vents. Miranda was perfect human so she could be a great biotic.



Not saying those were the choices I made, but I lost 2 people on my first play. Didn't realize how specific you had to be.

[Saibh]

Exile Isan wrote...

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but my first time through the SM everyone survived with no reloads. I chose Tali for the vents, because you recruited in the first place because she a master tech specialist. Garrus' team on Omega sought him out because he got things done, he's a good leader. So he lead both fire teams. Samara has been using biotics for hundreds of years more than humans have been in space so she was the biotic. I sent Jacob back the crew. And I took Samara and Miranda with me to fight the baby Reaper.

Maybe it's because I've been playing Bioware games for years now, but I grown not to trust them and to understand that certain things will trigger something, good or bad, so I put off getting the Reaper IFF, until I had everything completed.

I hear a horn.

It be tooting.



Nah, as I said, if you plan it out right, you've done it. Also having Kasumi and Zaeed with you helps, but I'm not sure if you did. A lot of things change your outcome that seem hard to predict. For instance, even if you do all the recruit missions, you don't need to have Grunt or Legion at that point. You're not really told that there's any sort of math to Holding the Line, so taking Grunt or Garrus with you can have detrimental effects (this was actually the only mistake I made in my first try, and Tali died). You also might not think your crew will die if you don't immediately pursue them through the relay.

I don't think it was that easy, and I appreciating being able to save my crew, instead of irrevocably losing some of them. Your survival was in your hands. If ME3 ends with your death being the only option to save the galaxy, I will be pissed. I am so damn sick of that stupid choice at the end of games. It's such a weak tool to use--a cheap way to destroy all of the hard work you've done, everything you've accomplished, for one last little twist that ultimately affects nothing because it's at the end of the game.

Modifié par Saibh, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:38 .

[Slayer299]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It wasn't that easy to keep EVERYONE alive. The suicide mission could have been more complex, but it definitely isn't created for idiots, there are lots of unforeseen ways your crew mates can died.

THe only part I agree with you there is about everyone staying alive, because with Mordin, he can die kinda easily. But the SM wasn't all that tough, even going in without being spoiled one bit. I played ME1 and then 2 and stayed off YouTube and BSN completely. I walked out with everyone alive, arguably, on my 2nd playthrough I lost Mordin on the HTL instead of sending him back to the ship with Chakwas.

As for unforseen, I don't see that. With the tube your told without an iota of confusion to send a tech expert and there are only 2 (tali, Legin) to start with. The same goes for the Biotic specialist and choosing Miranda instead of Jack/Samara and why would you do that? 

A SM is just that, you go in expecting to lose people no matter how well you're prepared because you're fighting on the enemy's home-turf and with no help if you need it. Losing someone in the SM because you choose to not follow the advice of the Normandy upgrades or a loyalty mission or you want said character dead is rediculous and proves that the SM itself isn't what it was supposed to be. I don't regret getting my crew through it alive, but it hardly felt like you had everything stacked against you.

[Exile Isan]

Saibh wrote...
I hear a horn.

It be tooting.

Also having Kasumi and Zaeed with you helps, but I'm not sure if you did.

I didn't have either of them.

You're not really told that there's any sort of math to Holding the Line, so taking Grunt or Garrus with you can have detrimental effects (this was actually the only mistake I made in my first try, and Tali died).

Ah, see I just assumed that there would be. That you would need the toughest of all your crew, which would be Grunt and Garrus, to "hold the line". Maybe I've just watched to many war movies with my dad.

If ME3 ends with your death being the only option to save the galaxy, I will be pissed. 

I hear you on that one.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:48 .

[Rockworm503]

I lost Thane and Miranda on my first playthrough.

Thane I picked for the 2nd team leader by mistake should've stuck with Garrus..

and Miranda I died because I picked Jack in their little **** fight I assume.