118 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

HFN Origin: Eleanor's decision in the end

I am very moved by it. But a friend of mine completely disagreed. Citing that Eleanor's duties as a mother should matter more. That living for her children should have been her choice. I am torn. What do you guys think?

[Zjarcal]

I would've done the same in her position. Hell, if I had the option, my HNF would've also stayed. Sure, it would've been the shortest run of DA:O ever but to hell with it, that is what I wanted to do!



If the Cousland kids were still children it would've been a different case, but as it is, they were both adults and could take care of themselves.



Besides, I'm a bit of a romantic for this sort of thing. Staying with your loved one till the very end is something I support 100%.

[Sabariel]

Eleanor held up Howe's soldiers while her child and Duncan fled. She gave them a chance to escape they wouldn't have had otherwise. If that's not going above and beyond your "duties" as mother then I don't know what is.

[Bratinov]

Eleanor's decision was retarded IMHO and the HN character was also retarded for allowing it, but its not really his fault since the game designers limit your decisions so much, we MUST have a pure revenge story after all.

There are many other instances where your choices are limited for no reason but lets not get off-topic.



It may be romantic but it doesn't work in the real world and there's no reason for it.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Duty be damned. People don't always do what they *should* do, and it's easy to cast judgement when you're not in their position.

Whatever the better decision for her to take was, can you blame her for wanting to defend her husband to the death?

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 04 octobre 2010 - 10:02 .

[sylvanaerie]

She was probably close to panic mode anyway. The order of her life had been snatched away and chaos had ensued. She was finally making her own choice instead of having circumstances make it for her in the situation. I find Eleanor was written in a believable and creditable manner. She wasn't a completely helpless, pampered noblewoman, she was a capable battle maiden. Put a bow in her hands and Eleanor totally KICKED BUTT!!

She was protecting her child by slowing Howe's men down enough to give him/her time to escape with Duncan. And she couldn't just abandon her husband, who couldn't leave.

Hell, given a choice my PC would have stayed with them but then that wouldn't have been a very long game now, would it?

[Elhanan]

If her children had been younger, she might have chosen another course. But her children were all adults, and quite capable on their own.

I just wished she had been able to give Howe a scar or something before she was killed.

Modifié par Elhanan, 04 octobre 2010 - 10:58 .

[Reika]

I asked my mother about this situation since she's around Eleanor's age (though sadly I'm older than the HN ) and thought I'd get her perspective on the scenario.



Were the HN not an adult, she would've fled to raise her child.



Since the HN is an adult she would've stayed with her dying husband not mainly to be with him to the end, though that would be part of it, it would have been mainly to buy time for her child to get the heck out of the place.

[Wulfram]

Another witness against Howe would have been useful, but it's her decision to make.

[nos_astra]

I thought her choice was a bit melodramatic and rather pointless. How much time could she possibly buy them against Howe's army? A minute? Two minutes?

It's a nice sentiment to stay with your husband when he's dying but at that cost? You leave your children to deal with Howe's treachery alone? What about her duty as a Teyrna to the Teyrnir? Um, not a smart choice. It felt like an arbitrary choice to get rid of the character rather than something the character would actually do.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 octobre 2010 - 10:43 .

[Reika]

Wulfram wrote...

Another witness against Howe would have been useful, but it's her decision to make.

Oddly enough that's the last thing on my mind as a player.

[Wulfram]

Reika wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Another witness against Howe would have been useful, but it's her decision to make.

Oddly enough that's the last thing on my mind as a player.

Vengeance is very much on my mind, and if the PC is stuck being a grey warden then the Teyrna is better placed to pursue it.

[Sabariel]

klarabella wrote...

I thought her choice was a bit melodramatic and rather pointless. How much time could she possibly buy them against Howe's army? A minute? Two minutes?

Depends how long it takes the soldiers to find her plus how smart she is about keeping them at bay.

[Elhanan]

klarabella wrote...

I thought her choice was a bit melodramatic and rather pointless. How much time could she possibly buy them against Howe's army? A minute? Two minutes?

It's a nice sentiment to stay with your husband when he's dying but at that cost? You leave your children to deal with Howe's treachery alone? What about her duty as a Teyrna to the Teyrnir? Um, not a smart choice. It felt like an arbitrary choice to get rid of the character rather than something the character would actually do.

I dunno. In most playthroughs, she does far better in battle than her child *cough*, especially if that child was not a trained warrior.

But it does bring me pain to read of possible dialogue that Howe can use to taunt the Warden, though I have yet to see it IG. I simply wish he had some scar, lost finger, or something to show that Mother left a lasting impression.

[CalJones]

Eleanor made the emotional choice rather than the logical one. I fully believe she could have survived had she gone with Duncan and Cousland Jr. Howe would have been exposed immediately and would never have been able to claim Highever or anything else for that matter.

However (hmm...is However what Howe would have renamed Highever?) I certainly don't blame her for making the decision she did. I am a romantic at heart and would have done the same thing.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

She was in a store-room, with barrels and crates to block the door with from the inside. If she was thinking clearly she could have held them at bay for quite a while even without fighting (larder doors can be quite solid), something Bryce couldn't have done while wounded.



Unless the door opens the other way, I guess



Yes, in the end I agree it was a way to get rid of the PC's parents, but I also think the Alistair/Loghain ultimatum was partially fuelled by not having enough party slots. I still like the story behind both excuses though.

[CalJones]

I don't buy that as the reason behind the Alistair/Loghain choice - modders have managed to add additional characters, after all.

[Persephone]

CalJones wrote...

I don't buy that as the reason behind the Alistair/Loghain choice - modders have managed to add additional characters, after all.

This. I think they rushed it and went for a rather blah way out. I'd have preferred a Virmire impact like decision there, if we MUST choose between Loghain and Alistair. I.E. Loghain lives = Alistair gets executed without a cheap way out And Loghain is executed = Darker Alistair, bittersweet ending

[tool_bot]

That's cool and all, but she didn't need to stay. They had plenty of time for them all to escape. If you have time to stand around and argue about who's staying and who's leaving, then you have enough time for everyone to escape.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...
This. I think they rushed it and went for a rather blah way out. I'd have preferred a Virmire impact like decision there, if we MUST choose between Loghain and Alistair. I.E. Loghain lives = Alistair gets executed without a cheap way out And Loghain is executed = Darker Alistair, bittersweet ending

Anora wanting to execute Alistair is stupid enough as it is.  Forcing the player to allow it would be silly.

edit: I think the main problem with that choice is that they wanted to make sure there wasn't an easy, happy way out.  Letting the player have both would have been too nice.  Adding even more negative consequences to either side would make it more artificial and worse.

Modifié par Wulfram, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:33 .

[Persephone]

Wulfram wrote...

Persephone wrote...
This. I think they rushed it and went for a rather blah way out. I'd have preferred a Virmire impact like decision there, if we MUST choose between Loghain and Alistair. I.E. Loghain lives = Alistair gets executed without a cheap way out And Loghain is executed = Darker Alistair, bittersweet ending

Anora wanting to execute Alistair is stupid enough as it is.  Forcing the player to allow it would be silly.

It's the most logical decision on her part. The choice any smart monarch would make. Besides being a rival, Alistair wants her father dead. Monarchs have to execute pretenders, possible rivals to the throne. If she doesn't, the Epilogue will tell of an uprising in his name. No smart monarch wants that. Whether said rival WANTS the throne is sadly irrelevant, his presence must be dealt with.

[Wulfram]

Persephone wrote...

It's the most logical decision on her part. The choice any smart monarch would make. Besides being a rival, Alistair wants her father dead. Monarchs have to execute pretenders, possible rivals to the throne. If she doesn't, the Epilogue will tell of an uprising in his name. No smart monarch wants that. Whether said rival WANTS the throne is sadly irrelevant, his presence must be dealt with.

Openly murdering the son of Maric for no real reason is stupid, and will create far more difficulties than it solves.  Her claim to the throne is weak, and acting in such an arbitrary manner would unite the realm against her.

edit: if she were to quietly arrange for his death, that would be sensible

Modifié par Wulfram, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:38 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Persephone wrote...

CalJones wrote...

I don't buy that as the reason behind the Alistair/Loghain choice - modders have managed to add additional characters, after all.

This. I think they rushed it and went for a rather blah way out. I'd have preferred a Virmire impact like decision there, if we MUST choose between Loghain and Alistair. I.E. Loghain lives = Alistair gets executed without a cheap way out And Loghain is executed = Darker Alistair, bittersweet ending

Modders have managed to do heaps of things. Considering Shale was added later as an extra character I will concede I'm probably wrong in my assumption, but that's how it has always felt to me.

As for the Couslands, I suppose Eleanor could have followed the PC and died at Ostagar. Now that might have been an interesting RP point for some.