275 réponses à ce sujet

[Zhijn]

Lumikki wrote...

mm.. but speed was never even my issue, it was the japanese anime style. You know character with over size weapon spinning, hopping and rolling in combat.

^Yes!.
Nothing says "blargh" more then a super over-sized weapon with the weight of a feather.

[nightcobra]

blargh being the sound of the victim's spinal cord being smooshed

[Phaelducan]

In all fairness it was exceptionally rare for even a "2-handed" sword to weigh more than 5 lbs. Most standard longswords were around 3lbs. The speed of 2h warrior attacks in Origins was absurd. You could swing a sledgehammer faster than that.

Again... less then 5 lbs... for a greatsword.... IRL.

Edit: For that matter, the entire premise of slow, prolonged melee combat is invalid. I don't care who you are, if you got hit by a blade swung at full force by a 200lb man (or woman, or darkspawn, or whatever) you...are...dead. Same goes for Hawke/Warden swinging 5-6 times on some mob.

Realism and Video Games typically don't meet very often. You think Charles Martel and company "tanked" the Turks at the Battle of Tours? No, that's ridiculous. If you got hit, you either died or were incapacitated. History and reality have nothing to do with the combat in an RPG.

Modifié par Phaelducan, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:56 .

[nightcobra]

and actually saying that DA2 looks like a japanese anime, these people should look at more anime to realize that this is not really the case. if nothing else it's a mix of the two (east and west) in that it resembles an anime that is based on a western style like how berserk's style comes mostly from medieval europe's settings.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 04 octobre 2010 - 12:41 .

[Shepard Lives]

Hell yeah. Marian twirling a tree-sized sword like a baton was the one thing I absolutely couldn't stand in that video.

[Ulathar]

This is very good news, imo. Good find, ViSeirA and thanks for posting it :-)

[silentassassin264]

I hope they didn't lower it too much. I couldn't stand how horribly slow it was in origins.

[nightcobra]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I hope they didn't lower it too much. I couldn't stand how horribly slow it was in origins.

seconded, as i said before this is my opinion on the change:

"i'm all for making the 2h movement looking like it has some heft, but i hope the change isn't significant enough to gimp the warrior as opposed to the rogue or mage"

[Akka le Vil]

Phaelducan wrote...

Edit: For that matter, the entire premise of slow, prolonged melee combat is invalid. I don't care who you are, if you got hit by a blade swung at full force by a 200lb man (or woman, or darkspawn, or whatever) you...are...dead. Same goes for Hawke/Warden swinging 5-6 times on some mob.

Realism and Video Games typically don't meet very often. You think Charles Martel and company "tanked" the Turks at the Battle of Tours? No, that's ridiculous. If you got hit, you either died or were incapacitated. History and reality have nothing to do with the combat in an RPG.

What you say is true for unarmoured fighting. But armour were VERY efficient (even the "lowly" chain mail is incredibly resilient) and could keep a fighter going for a long time. It's completely doable to make a quite realistic fighting system, you just have to think a bit about how it will works. Unrealistic fighting system just lack imagination, realism isn't in any way opposed to fun.

(and Charles Martel was at the battle of Poitiers ^^)

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

YESSSSSSSSS

REALISM

YESSS

WOOO


One thing I am happy about!

Sarcasm detected.

I thnk...

[Nerevar-as]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I hope they didn't lower it too much. I couldn't stand how horribly slow it was in origins.

seconded, as i said before this is my opinion on the change:

"i'm all for making the 2h movement looking like it has some heft, but i hope the change isn't significant enough to gimp the warrior as opposed to the rogue or mage"

If 2H was like that on the demo, how was 1H+S? And Rogue?

I agree 2H in Origins swinged too slow. There´s showing the fighter is putting more strenght in an attack, but it seemed the enemy could have gotten 3 attacks at least in the time it took  that swing. But having a 2H feel as a wooden stick is not the answer.

[nightcobra]

Nerevar-as wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I hope they didn't lower it too much. I couldn't stand how horribly slow it was in origins.

seconded, as i said before this is my opinion on the change:

"i'm all for making the 2h movement looking like it has some heft, but i hope the change isn't significant enough to gimp the warrior as opposed to the rogue or mage"

If 2H was like that on the demo, how was 1H+S? And Rogue?

I agree 2H in Origins swinged too slow. There´s showing the fighter is putting more strenght in an attack, but it seemed the enemy could have gotten 3 attacks at least in the time it took  that swing. But having a 2H feel as a wooden stick is not the answer.

here's a full review of what apollo starfire played:

Okay I'll belatedly leave my thoughts on the demo here. I went on the Friday, but have been moving house this weekend so have only just gotten a chance to type this up! Played the demo twice, and had a lot of fun with it. Note: I havn't read through the thread as it's quite late, so sorry for any repetition here. Note2: All this was on the 360 version as that was the only version available, this would seem to be partly due to what I speculate was a last minute inclusion of DA2 to Eurogamer (it wasn't even listed in the booklet or on the map like everything else and was tucked away).

The Mage class was selectable however unbelievably both times I went I ended up on the one machine which didn't have the class unlocked. Very annoying! 

Opinion on Mages from using Bethany: Very positive. I've recently finished a Mage playthrough on Origins and so the differences (and improvements) were easy to notice. To me the Mage felt like it benefited most from the combat upgrades (from what I have tried so far) with even standard ranged attacks being a lot of fun, as the mage runs through a series of animations launching projectiles at the Darkspawn. The skills were responsive and great fun to unleash, although Mind Blast seemed a little unweildy. The best bit? Using melee attacks. The animations even at this early stage look great, and I can already see why they chose a Mage Hawke for the video (the mage will again run through a series of animations ending in the flame burst attack seen in the trailer), it felt very satisfying, and more importantly: not overpowered! I mainly used it on archers after closing and stunning them. Ninja edit: The mage finisher I saw (twice) was awesome, crushing an Ogre into a ball just never gets old.

I played first as a two handed warrior (a popular choice from what I could see, although that just means people were picking the Warrior class, s+s wasn't available to Hawke) and then a rogue. While one playthrough with each is hardly enough to form a definite opinion I greatly preferred my time with the rogue.

2-handed Warrior impressions: Wasn't a huge fan to be honest, but maybe it's just my playstyle. The animations do feel a bit too fast and not weighty enough, despite the rogue being faster I actually felt a bit more 'button mashy' with this class. This would be something that would reduce with time though, and the demo isn't really designed for tactical fights beyond to some extent the Ogre fight (they are obviously showcasing other things at this time).

Sword and shield impressions: Only got to try this briefly with Aveline but I liked what I saw. The switch to a stance feels more substantial and the animations were satisfying. Can't say much more than that.

Warrior talents: I noticed there the 'Battlemaster' tree, hadn't seen that mentioned around here before? Probably just missed it, but thought I'd mention anyway. It gave me an ability which stuns enemies.

Rogue impressions: Great fun. It is fast, faster than Origins by some way. However it isn't all about jumping and combo's, it is undeniably still Origins gameplay under the hood, just... let loose. People guessed correctly when they speculated the reported 'teleport' move was a re-imagined Flicker. It's just that, and works well. The rogue had more abilties on offer than the warrior, much like often seemed to be the case in DAO. The bombs worked just like any DAO bomb, and the animations for the others were all impression, although the ability that seemed to be the DA2 version of below the belt seemed to get lost in the confusion of battle when I used it and I never really noticed the effect it had (again, this probably was due to the conditions more than anything). Lastly the jumping ability (which lets you backflip away from/over enemies was great fun, I wasn't hopping around like a demented wallaby, rather it fit in nicely with the rogue style of retreating when in over your head or getting in behind enemies to stick a knife in their back.

Rogue talent trees: I noticed subterfuge, debilitation and dual weilding with others locked. Rather self explanatory really.

A note on talent trees and the attributes screen: I like the new trees screen, however whether it was the fact I was rushed or the menu system it felt a bit fiddly selecting the skill I wanted to look at. The attributes screen is only noteworthy in that it now seems to list your attack and damage ratings, I think it updates any changes as you add points but can't fully remember. In general the level up screen (or 'character' as it's now known as) was much better presented than in Origins though (360).

The plot: Nothing really new, although some dialogue cleared up why they go to Gwaren, the Horde has blocked off the road north and so they go through the Wilds. There is a fair bit you can ask Flemeth, and it suggested to me that she was aware the Warden would come to confront her (something about an expected meeting or something) she also mentioned the Dalish Keeper's name (Marathari) and after confirming with the Wiki this is indeed the same Keeper as the Dalish Warden's clan, so looks like we'll be seeing them again (I expect this has already been noticed but what the hay!)  Oh and it does sound like Hawke and Carver could have been at Ostagar (RE: "We've been running since Ostagar!") however I couldn't quite tell, and it could easily just mean the family has been running since then, although that wouldn't seem to jive with the timeline as Lothering burnt sometime after Ostagar *shrugs*

Hawke's VA: *Note: Sorry Calla!* I am pretty much convinced it's Nicholas Boulton, he who voiced Bann Vaughan in DAO. There are some lines (particularly nice options) where it did make me unsure, so this is sadly not 100%, however I had the volume up quite high and a large number of the lines sounded far too much like Boulton for me to think otherwise. I even played through picking only nasty options the second time as that's the voice we are most familiar with heh.

Varric's VA:...Has already been found out by the Varric thread (namely Namedforthemoon) however I shall add my opinion of Varric here: Not much to add beyond what others have already said but the Varric and 
Cassandra scene is the stand out moment of the demo for me heh. Their 
banter is just perfect, I found myself grinning stupidly when she 
interupts his first telling of the story, and Bloom matches Varric's 
already awesome animations with a great voice, right down to the little 
sigh of amusment he gives after winding Cassandra up. Equally his 
narration of the animated sequence (I'm guessing there could be more of 
them than just at the start this time? There are two in the demo) is 
great to listen to, he really does come across as an expert storyteller 
spinning a wild tale of adventure.

Plus, seen up close Varric 
looks far from ugly (as many of us expected), he looks quite dashing to 
me, and while his hair seems blonde the rest is very much in keeping 
with the concept art. Chest hair included. 
Anything else: Cassandra seems a great character as well for her part, look forward to finding out more about her, curious as to how common Nevarran's are in the higher echelons of the Chantry considering they don't seem to get along with Orlais very well. Bethany seems fun, I liked what banter there was between her and Hawke, think that she could be a lot of fun to bring along just for the dialogue. Oh and Kate Mulgrew is better than ever as Flemeth, hope she doesn't spend too much of the game behind the scenes. Oh and the Hurlocks and Hurlocks are Hurlocks, they catch on fire or get cut to pieces just like in the last game, and have about the same level of intimidation to me, don't see what all the fuss is about. I do think the armor could do with looking less uniform though, even just making it look more worn and old would help with that.

Lastly! The difficulty was actually harder than I expected. The demo has Hawke set to invincible but his/her health still goes down. If I wasn't invincible I would have died fighting the Ogre one time and I saw a few others in the same boat, it's not a walk in the park (well... The exaggerated bit is, but it's suppsosed to be!). That said I couldn't see any health potions available and such which meant a mistake killed you quick. It just underlined the importance the Tank still has in the game, I found keeping Aveline alive and agro'ing the thing made it much easier (yay tactics).
[/list]
Anyway, word assault over. You may continue. 

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I kinda liked what I saw. 

[Phaelducan]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Edit: For that matter, the entire premise of slow, prolonged melee combat is invalid. I don't care who you are, if you got hit by a blade swung at full force by a 200lb man (or woman, or darkspawn, or whatever) you...are...dead. Same goes for Hawke/Warden swinging 5-6 times on some mob.

Realism and Video Games typically don't meet very often. You think Charles Martel and company "tanked" the Turks at the Battle of Tours? No, that's ridiculous. If you got hit, you either died or were incapacitated. History and reality have nothing to do with the combat in an RPG.

What you say is true for unarmoured fighting. But armour were VERY efficient (even the "lowly" chain mail is incredibly resilient) and could keep a fighter going for a long time. It's completely doable to make a quite realistic fighting system, you just have to think a bit about how it will works. Unrealistic fighting system just lack imagination, realism isn't in any way opposed to fun.

(and Charles Martel was at the battle of Poitiers ^^)

Really? You are going to be that guy?

The Battle of Poitiers is commonly also referred to as the Battle of Tours. 732, Charles Martel... Battle of Tours.

Don't.... be.... that.... guy.

[Ayanko]

Oh for the love of the maker, I spent Half of DA:O trying to speed up my warden when they handled the 2h weapons, now I hear that they've slowed it down? WHO COMPLAINED THAT IT WAS TO FAST? Without speeding up the actions on 2H I would have probably died of old age fighting the archdemon.

[Shad0wOGRE]

Properly fitted plate armor shouldn't hinder someone's movement all that much because the weight is distributed over the entire body. I saw a demonstration where a guy did cartwheels. Also two-handers can move pretty fast if you are strong enough (which a warrior would be) because they are (or should be) balanced by the pommel.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Phaelducan wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Edit: For that matter, the entire premise of slow, prolonged melee combat is invalid. I don't care who you are, if you got hit by a blade swung at full force by a 200lb man (or woman, or darkspawn, or whatever) you...are...dead. Same goes for Hawke/Warden swinging 5-6 times on some mob.

Realism and Video Games typically don't meet very often. You think Charles Martel and company "tanked" the Turks at the Battle of Tours? No, that's ridiculous. If you got hit, you either died or were incapacitated. History and reality have nothing to do with the combat in an RPG.

What you say is true for unarmoured fighting. But armour were VERY efficient (even the "lowly" chain mail is incredibly resilient) and could keep a fighter going for a long time. It's completely doable to make a quite realistic fighting system, you just have to think a bit about how it will works. Unrealistic fighting system just lack imagination, realism isn't in any way opposed to fun.

(and Charles Martel was at the battle of Poitiers ^^)

Really? You are going to be that guy?

The Battle of Poitiers is commonly also referred to as the Battle of Tours. 732, Charles Martel... Battle of Tours.

Don't.... be.... that.... guy.

That was Arabs, not Turks.

[Ayanko]

Oh well there will most likely be a mod created to allow 2h warriors to backflip and dash around. Wont that be a sight to see.

[nightcobra]

i hope it's a least a bit faster than the origins 2h warrior with haste.

[ErichHartmann]

Two handed weapons were painfully slow in Origins. I would like to use them in DA2. But not if I can kill faster with a shield/sword.

[Phaelducan]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Edit: For that matter, the entire premise of slow, prolonged melee combat is invalid. I don't care who you are, if you got hit by a blade swung at full force by a 200lb man (or woman, or darkspawn, or whatever) you...are...dead. Same goes for Hawke/Warden swinging 5-6 times on some mob.

Realism and Video Games typically don't meet very often. You think Charles Martel and company "tanked" the Turks at the Battle of Tours? No, that's ridiculous. If you got hit, you either died or were incapacitated. History and reality have nothing to do with the combat in an RPG.

What you say is true for unarmoured fighting. But armour were VERY efficient (even the "lowly" chain mail is incredibly resilient) and could keep a fighter going for a long time. It's completely doable to make a quite realistic fighting system, you just have to think a bit about how it will works. Unrealistic fighting system just lack imagination, realism isn't in any way opposed to fun.

(and Charles Martel was at the battle of Poitiers ^^)

Really? You are going to be that guy?

The Battle of Poitiers is commonly also referred to as the Battle of Tours. 732, Charles Martel... Battle of Tours.

Don't.... be.... that.... guy.

That was Arabs, not Turks.

Ah hell, yeah you are right. Umayyid's were from Mecca.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

A 2-handed warrior can do the ninja dash now. The argument for removing dual-wielding for warriors is getting weak.

[Burdokva]

Phaelducan wrote...

In all fairness it was exceptionally rare for even a "2-handed" sword to weigh more than 5 lbs. Most standard longswords were around 3lbs. The speed of 2h warrior attacks in Origins was absurd. You could swing a sledgehammer faster than that.

Again... less then 5 lbs... for a greatsword.... IRL.

Edit: For that matter, the entire premise of slow, prolonged melee combat is invalid. I don't care who you are, if you got hit by a blade swung at full force by a 200lb man (or woman, or darkspawn, or whatever) you...are...dead. Same goes for Hawke/Warden swinging 5-6 times on some mob.

Realism and Video Games typically don't meet very often. You think Charles Martel and company "tanked" the Turks at the Battle of Tours? No, that's ridiculous. If you got hit, you either died or were incapacitated. History and reality have nothing to do with the combat in an RPG.

In all honesty:

- You can swing a sword fast like a madman, but then you'll expose yourself. There's a balance between speed and precision so you can quickly pull back from a hit (or miss). Admittedly Origin's two hander was too slow (though quite realistic for a tired man at the end of a battle). 

- Charles Martel fought the Moors; the Ottoman Turks didn't invade Europe for about 600 years after, and they invaded through the Orthodox South-Eastern Europe, not the Iberian Peninsula.

- The "one hit-dead" portrayal of Medieval combat is a movie myth. Armor is hard to beat. Emperor Alexios Komnenos was repeatedly hit by the spears of charging Norman knight at the battle of Dyrrhachium in 1081 and was unhurt (the only noticeable injury he suffered was from a sword blow to the head that buckled his helmet and drew blood); some spears even stuck in his padded lamellar. And mind you, an Eastern Roman kataphracht isn't even remotely as heavily armored as the nobles in Dragon Age.

Take away the magic and flashy movements and at its core Origin's combat is not at all a bad representation of Medieval combat. 

I'm glad they toned down DAII's animation, because in the leaked video it most definitely was not.

EDIT: Eh, someone beat me to some points while I was typing the post. 

Modifié par Burdokva, 04 octobre 2010 - 02:50 .

[marshalleck]

In this thread, a bunch of people who should be off playing Mount & Blade instead of Dragon Age

[SteveGarbage]

Burdokva wrote...

- The "one hit-dead" portrayal of Medieval combat is a movie myth. Armor is hard to beat. Emperor Alexios Komnenos was repeatedly hit by the spears of charging Norman knight at the battle of Dyrrhachium in 1081 and was unhurt (the only noticeable injury he suffered was from a sword blow to the head that buckled his helmet and drew blood); some spears even stuck in his padded lamellar. And mind you, an Eastern Roman kataphracht isn't even remotely as heavily armored as the nobles in Dragon Age.

That depends on your source. I'm assuming any stories about Alexios probably come from "The Alexiad" which was written by his daughter. Medieval texts have a bad tendency to exaggerate in favor of whatever side you're representing. For example try reading the stories in the "Lay of el Cid" where his forces would defeat several thousand Moors while only loosing 5-10 men. Although there's is evidence that el Cid won some substantial battles over Muslims in Iberia, the numbers are highly suspect.

When you're the emperor of the Byzantines and your daughter is writing the text, there's a good chance she's going to portray you as a total badass.

Modifié par SteveGarbage, 04 octobre 2010 - 03:04 .