37 réponses à ce sujet

[k9medusa]

 Next play, I am thinking about playing (ME1 / ME2) a Renegade, but how is the problem.  How can I be evil, but don't kill NPCs that will appear in ME2?

A related question, How can I be "evil" but not a jerk?

[swk3000]

My biggest issue with the Renegade playthrough is that you have to save before every conversation, as the maximum Renegade scores are often gotten by initially taking Paragon options. Mordin's Recruitment Mission is a perfect example: you come across Looters, and you either ignore them, or tell them you don't like Looters. Ignoring them would technically be the Renegade choice, but you get no Renegade points for it. However, if you tell them you don't like looters, you're then given a Renegade option to intimidate them into stopping.



Frankly, I don't want to have to reload every conversation 12 times to find out how to get the best Renegade points, but if I don't, I miss out on all the Renegade conversation options. That's why I don't do Renegade characters for Mass Effect.

[sinosleep]

Just work under the assumption that unless it's red you won't get points for it and you shouldn't have to do any reloading. Bottom right or top right are usually quick ways to end a conversation, while the options on the left hand side regularly extend said conversation. Just extend every conversation you are in until you get either a renegade interrupt prompt, or a red intimidate option.

[swk3000]

I tried that in the first game with Conrad Verner. There were no options on the left, so I took the bottom right option. Shepard slammed him into a wall and told him to get lost, and I had no Renegade options pop up, as the quest was considered complete.

[JaegerBane]

swk3000 wrote...

My biggest issue with the Renegade playthrough is that you have to save before every conversation, as the maximum Renegade scores are often gotten by initially taking Paragon options. Mordin's Recruitment Mission is a perfect example: you come across Looters, and you either ignore them, or tell them you don't like Looters. Ignoring them would technically be the Renegade choice, but you get no Renegade points for it. However, if you tell them you don't like looters, you're then given a Renegade option to intimidate them into stopping.

Frankly, I don't want to have to reload every conversation 12 times to find out how to get the best Renegade points, but if I don't, I miss out on all the Renegade conversation options. That's why I don't do Renegade characters for Mass Effect.

Bioware games tend to fall into this trap quite often - the whole Black Hole of Conversation Doom where one wrong choice can require you to reload (and often the fastest way of getting out of the conversation is to just alt-tab and restart).

The best way I found of being a renegade is to essentially look for a way to enter conflict, whether doing so would have normally been considered a Paragon option (the above option is a good example). Once you've got the hang of it, things become reasonably straightforward.

A far greater problem I had with playing a Renegade is that you kept having to select the absolute uber-d1ck option (like letting loads of innocent people burn to death etc). There wasn't really a way of being a Jack Bauer type, you often had to go the near-psychopathic route.

[sinosleep]

You'd be surprised at just how many paragade options there are in both ME and ME 2. For practically every paragon solution in the game there is a renegade path to getting there. The looters situation is one of them, Shiala's request another, the mook you can toss out the window is a third, it goes on and on and on. Yeah, the flat out renegade solutions are pretty extreme, but you can often arrive at a far more reasonable paragon solution via renegade dialogue choice.

Modifié par sinosleep, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:17 .

[k9medusa]

Thanks for the tips, does any else feels being a Renegadeis hard? My type "evil char" I like to play is being "nice" or don't know any better type person, but doing some evil action on the other hand. For example, thinking eating gnomes (NWN 1) is "normal" and don't know why other players don't do that. Another example, My char says that you have a "boo-boo" and need a hug, but when my char hugs you (she has very high str) then you hear your ribs crack when she hugs you. It is hard to be that type of evil most games unless you are on an online server. I am try to make my next play in ME like that.. Does any one any ideas in how?

[Kreid]

My main Shepard is completely scarred and his Renegade bar is full, but I've never killed any single important person, I've also saved the workers on Zaeed's loyalty mission, re-programmed the Heretics, destroyed the base etc...
IMHO being renegade is more of a behavioral philosophy than anything since when it comes down to actual choices, purely Renegade ones are often stupid and counter-productive.
I like being generally Renegade, though, because I find it much more satisfying when talking to others.
In the beginning I though Shepard would simply be a jerk putting people off and I was reluctant to try it but it doesn't work like that, he/she just approaches things much more directly than i the Paragon way, for example, I like much more the way a Renegade Shepard romances Miranda than a Paragon one, when you seem to be waiting for her to take the approach every turn.

Modifié par Creid-X, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:15 .

[Nooneyouknow13]

Try not to look at paragon as good and renegade as evil. You're playing a "good" character either way. Paragon is simply nice and polite, while renegade is being direct and often rude. And sadly occasionally stupid. There's no real reason to go out of your way to one extreme or the other, simply decide as the moment warrants. Fully paragon makes you seem way to naive at some points, and fully renegade just makes you look like a jerkass idiot. As has been mentioned, you can rack up an amazingly high amount of renegade points (completely fill the bar in fact) just by being highly sarcastic and taking every chance you can to play the deadpan snarker.

[All-a-Mort]

How much does taking a sort of balanced approach (the paragade or renegon i suppose, or a more realistic approach to decision making) cause problems with keeping NPCs alive and not ruining plot points by missing out on persuades? I've found myself having to be a sort of archetypal renegade or paragon in order to be prepared for the places where a high value in one or other is needed (such as Zaeed's loyalty mission and solving the Jack vs Miranda and Tali vs Legion disputes) so as to not end up losing characters' loyalty and lives or missing out on potential allies (or just plot sidelines) in the next game. Is it a case of trying to max both bars in order to be balanced, or is that only possible by making daftly contradictory decisions as the game progresses?

[Ares Caesar]

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Morality_Guide_%28Mass_Effect_2%29

*****WARNING CONTAINS MASSIVE SPOILERS***** 

There is a list of pretty much every conversation option and the paragon/renegade points assigned for doing so.

Again it contains massive spoilers and if you dont want to "know whats coming" I dont suggest using it, but if you want to make sure you got the renegade points, it works well for that. Typically, I'd advise going through a conversation, and if you got NOTHING points wise, then perhaps check the guide to make sure.

[Chugster]

i dont think of my renegades as evil...they dont just do stuff because its bad, its more a 'do what has to be done' situation rahter than 'kill everyone'...so dont just assume you need to do all the red options to be renegade

[All-a-Mort]

Ares Caesar wrote...

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Morality_Guide_%28Mass_Effect_2%29

*****WARNING CONTAINS MASSIVE SPOILERS***** 

There is a list of pretty much every conversation option and the paragon/renegade points assigned for doing so.

Again it contains massive spoilers and if you dont want to "know whats coming" I dont suggest using it, but if you want to make sure you got the renegade points, it works well for that. Typically, I'd advise going through a conversation, and if you got NOTHING points wise, then perhaps check the guide to make sure.

Cheers dude. S'not gonna be any spoilers for me having completed it several times already, but I was thinking more about carrying different Shepard's through to the finale of the series and what choices I wanted to see represented and what impact they might make instead of the default ones the developers make for new players of the game (eg. what NPCs I want alive from ME and ME2, what choices about small but potentially significant plots points like the Krogan question, Rachni, Geth, Quarians etc). Having played my main playthrough (my default first time Shepard carried over) I wanted to try and cherry pick things for slightly different experiences and see what different types of Shep in terms of personality might experience if I wasn't total badass or white knight but just being natural, pragmatic or muddling through as best as a Shep can. I've always hated how RPGs tend to try and make a player an archetypal figure rather than allowing for as rich an experience when played as you might really behave were you in that circumstance.

[Kreid]

All-a-Mort wrote...

How much does taking a sort of balanced approach (the paragade or renegon i suppose, or a more realistic approach to decision making) cause problems with keeping NPCs alive and not ruining plot points by missing out on persuades? I've found myself having to be a sort of archetypal renegade or paragon in order to be prepared for the places where a high value in one or other is needed (such as Zaeed's loyalty mission and solving the Jack vs Miranda and Tali vs Legion disputes) so as to not end up losing characters' loyalty and lives or missing out on potential allies (or just plot sidelines) in the next game. Is it a case of trying to max both bars in order to be balanced, or is that only possible by making daftly contradictory decisions as the game progresses?

With an imported character, it's relatively easy to get enough of both Paragon and Renegade points to cover charm/intimidate in all situations.
The are only two situations that can become really hard after a certain point in the game and only one is really important.

the Paragon one is convincing Zaeed in his loyalty mission after saving the workers, to ensure it (with an imported character with a 100+ starting Paragon bonus) just make his loyalty mission as soon as possible (either the very first one or after any of the four starting dossiers, but the sooner the better) since the game piles points "against" your convincing skills after each mission you complete thus making charm or intimidate more difficult as you progress.
If you make this after Hozrizon with a full Paragon you might still get the option, but as you near the end (Reaper IFF etc...) you might not be able to convince Zaeed EVEN with a full Paragon bar.

The Renegade option comes in Thane's loyalty mission and is convincing Kelham you're an Spectre (if you do you get 5 extra Paragon points you don't if you just hit him) you actually need a high Renegade bar for this one (mid three bars or so i believe) but again the sooner you do the easier, so recruit thane first after Horizon and do his loyalty mission asap.

In the Miranda/Jack case it is easier to deal with them the Renegade way so it's relatively easy to keep their loyalty as long as you have a more or less high renegade bar, in the Tali/Legion case it's easier to convince them the Paragon way (I was able to convince them both ways with a full renegade bar and three Paragon bar sections) so as long as you don't focus yourself too much into renegade action it should be okay.

And that's really it, any other charm/intimidate option in the game is really easy to pull off.

Modifié par Creid-X, 04 octobre 2010 - 09:29 .

[RGFrog]

paragon = nice jerk

renegade = less nice jerk

No good vs. evil, just less or more jerky. Shep justifies his/her actions either way.

The only real good/evil choices are typically at the end of a mission (like overlord or the suicide mission). However, even then both choices are morally gray and never actually black and white. They take on one characteristic or another based on the morals you bring with you to the game.

With blue interrupts, you're more likely to have a full cast in me3. With red interrupts, Samara is probably going to kill you outright, or not.

[Kronner]

I'd strongly disagree with
"paragon = nice jerk
renegade = less nice jerk"

that may be true for small (and not really important) stuff, the big decisons (Racchni, geth etc., definitely NOT Overlord and similar minor crap) you have to make have always 2 totally different outcomes. Not just "nice guy" and "not so nice guy".

Modifié par Kronner, 04 octobre 2010 - 09:42 .

[sinosleep]

Creid-X wrote...

With an imported character, it's relatively easy to get enough of both Paragon and Renegade points to cover charm/intimidate in all situations.
The are only two situations that can become really hard after a certain point in the game and only one is really important.

the Paragon one is convincing Zaeed in his loyalty mission after saving the workers, to ensure it (with an imported character with a 100+ starting Paragon bonus) just make his loyalty mission as soon as possible (either the very first one or after any of the four starting dossiers, but the sooner the better) since the game piles points "against" your convincing skills after each mission you complete thus making charm or intimidate more difficult as you progress.
If you make this after Hozrizon with a full Paragon you might still get the option, but as you near the end (Reaper IFF etc...) you might not be able to convince Zaeed EVEN with a full Paragon bar.

The Renegade option comes in Thane's loyalty mission and is convincing Kelham you're an Spectre (if you do you get 5 extra Paragon points you don't if you just hit him) you actually need a high Renegade bar for this one (mid three bars or so i believe) but again the sooner you do the easier, so recruit thane first after Horizon and do his loyalty mission asap.

In the Miranda/Jack case it is easier to deal with them the Renegade way so it's relatively easy to keep their loyalty as long as you have a more or less high renegade bar, in the Tali/Legion case it's easier to convince them the Paragon way (I was able to convince them both ways with a full renegade bar and three Paragon bar sections) so as long as you don't focus yourself too much into renegade action it should be okay.

And that's really it, any other charm/intimidate option in the game is really easy to pull off.

Um, are you sure about that? Cause my experience in the game tells me you've got that backwards. The ONLY times I have EVER failed Zaeed's loyalty mission paragon check is when doing it to early. Same thing goes for the "I'm a spectre check". You can't get the required paragon/renegade points for either check by doing them immediately.

Modifié par sinosleep, 04 octobre 2010 - 09:53 .

[Kreid]

sinosleep wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

With an imported character, it's relatively easy to get enough of both Paragon and Renegade points to cover charm/intimidate in all situations.
The are only two situations that can become really hard after a certain point in the game and only one is really important.

the Paragon one is convincing Zaeed in his loyalty mission after saving the workers, to ensure it (with an imported character with a 100+ starting Paragon bonus) just make his loyalty mission as soon as possible (either the very first one or after any of the four starting dossiers, but the sooner the better) since the game piles points "against" your convincing skills after each mission you complete thus making charm or intimidate more difficult as you progress.
If you make this after Hozrizon with a full Paragon you might still get the option, but as you near the end (Reaper IFF etc...) you might not be able to convince Zaeed EVEN with a full Paragon bar.

The Renegade option comes in Thane's loyalty mission and is convincing Kelham you're an Spectre (if you do you get 5 extra Paragon points you don't if you just hit him) you actually need a high Renegade bar for this one (mid three bars or so i believe) but again the sooner you do the easier, so recruit thane first after Horizon and do his loyalty mission asap.

In the Miranda/Jack case it is easier to deal with them the Renegade way so it's relatively easy to keep their loyalty as long as you have a more or less high renegade bar, in the Tali/Legion case it's easier to convince them the Paragon way (I was able to convince them both ways with a full renegade bar and three Paragon bar sections) so as long as you don't focus yourself too much into renegade action it should be okay.

And that's really it, any other charm/intimidate option in the game is really easy to pull off.

Um, are you sure about that? Cause my experience in the game tells me you've got that backwards. The ONLY times I have EVER failed Zaeed's loyalty mission paragon check is when doing it to early. Same thing goes for the "I'm a spectre check". You can't get the required paragon/renegade points for either check by doing them immediately.

When I was researching for my renegade-yet-paragon-choices Shepard I read a developer here in the forum (sorry can't point to it since it'd be a hassle to look for right now) that when you end a mission the game takes account all possible paragon and renegade points regardless you win them or not and "piles them up" against your own current charm/intimidate score, sorry it's a little bit of a sketchy explanation but it's as I remember it.
.
Basically, every charm/intimidate choice gets tougher as you complete missions, that is why you can relatively easily convince Zaeed before let's say Horizon with one, or one and half Paragon bars filled yet you might not be able to convince him after the Reaper IFF with a full bar,  that said, if you use a new non-imported Shepard without the 0-200 import Paragon bonus and you go too soon you won't be able to convince him either.
In my experience the secret is having an approximate idea of how many points do you need every time and as soon as you're able to,  doing it in order to avoid it getting harder.

[philiposophy]

If you have 2 ranks in your passive (I think it's 2, but it might be 3) and have an imported Shepard, you won't fail Zaeed's check if you do it as soon as possible.



I've done that the last few times and it's always worked.

[Hyper_gateway]

I recently finish my Female renegade Shepard from ME to ME2, my renegade are both max out and with 80% Paragon. My Shepard only play hard with others but never to the squadmates, besides the only time I have to sacrifice hostage for getting to Balak, the rest of non critical character like Fist, Helen and even Conard were "renegade" in ME and returned in ME2.



Being renegade doesn't matter you have to choose the absolute renegade way, the neutral response can do that work too. I suppose you should think of your Shepard's principle on handling situation.



At the end of ME2, my Shepard chose to blow CB in pieces because she got tired of all TIM's BS. Hope this could give you an idea on how to act as renegade Shepard.

[sinosleep]

Creid-X wrote...

When I was researching for my renegade-yet-paragon-choices Shepard I read a developer here in the forum (sorry can't point to it since it'd be a hassle to look for right now) that when you end a mission the game takes account all possible paragon and renegade points regardless you win them or not and "piles them up" against your own current charm/intimidate score, sorry it's a little bit of a sketchy explanation but it's as I remember it.
.
Basically, every charm/intimidate choice gets tougher as you complete missions, that is why you can relatively easily convince Zaeed before let's say Horizon with one, or one and half Paragon bars filled yet you might not be able to convince him after the Reaper IFF with a full bar,  that said, if you use a new non-imported Shepard without the 0-200 import Paragon bonus and you go too soon you won't be able to convince him either.
In my experience the secret is having an approximate idea of how many points do you need every time and as soon as you're able to,  doing it in order to avoid it getting harder.

I'd have to see the post cause I'm telling you everything I've seen in game runs counter to that. I tend to choose my missions based entirely around upgrades. Since I rarely use heavy weapons they are very low priority and I often don't do Zaeed's mission until it's literally the very last mission available. I have NEVER failed it when doing it late, not even on renegade characters (I also go the paragon resolution route due to the heavy weapon ammo upgrade that's needed to get the 200% boost for 2 shots out of the cain on the reaper) where I've had only around half the paragon points available but I HAVE failed it early (repeatedly in fact) before I realized you had to have a least a few points in your passive (I tend to level class skill, then passive) to pass the check.

Modifié par sinosleep, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Hyper_gateway]

With blue interrupts, you're more likely to have a full cast in me3. With red interrupts, Samara is probably going to kill you outright, or not.

Samara said it would be better not to run in each other in the future, not that she will kill you on sight though. I believe when she meet you in the future and seeing you choosing the "injust" way, then that'll be the reason she has to attack you.

It is kind of sad to hear this since I like Samara alot, well, being renegade means you will not please everyone around you.