37 réponses à ce sujet

[Kreid]

sinosleep wrote...

I'd have to see the post cause I'm telling you everything I've seen in game runs counter to that. I tend to choose my missions based entirely around upgrades. Since I rarely use heavy weapons they are very low priority and I often don't do Zaeed's mission until it's literally the very last mission available. I have NEVER failed it when doing it late, not even on renegade characters (I also go the paragon resolution route due to the heavy weapon ammo upgrade that's needed to get the 200% boost for 2 shots out of the cain on the reaper) where I've had only around half the paragon points available but I HAVE failed it early (repeatedly in fact) before I realized you had to have a least a few points in your passive (I tend to level class skill, then passive) to pass the check.

I'd like to show it to you, but I came across the link while searching around the Mass effect wiki and I don't remember the article anymore also it's a little too late  to search for it in my browser's history.

I have another example for you though, with my Paragon Shepard I did both lair of the Shadow Broker and Zaeed's loyalty mission after the suicide mission and wasn't able to either convince Zaeed or Tela Vasir with a full Paragon bar (I had my Spectre status) yet in my Renegade playthrough, I did LotSB right after Horizon and i was able to intimidate Vasir with around three and half renegade bars which means that either:

A) it is MUCH easier to intimidate than charm Vasir

In fact the charm/intimidate had become much more difficult since I had completed every other mission on the game

Modifié par Creid-X, 05 octobre 2010 - 12:06 .

[sinosleep]

Creid-X wrote...

I'd like to show it to you, but I came across the link while searching around the Mass effect wiki and I don't remember the article anymore also it's a little too late  to search for it in my browser's history.

I have another example for you though, with my Paragon Shepard I did both lair of the Shadow Broker and Zaeed's loyalty mission after the suicide mission and wasn't able to either convince Zaeed or Tela Vasir with a full Paragon bar (I had my Spectre status) yet in my Renegade playthrough, I did LotSB right after Horizon and i was able to intimidate Vasir with around three and half renegade bars which means that either:

A) it is MUCH easier to intimidate than charm Vasir

In fact the charm/intimidate had become much more difficult since I had completed every other mission on the game

Maybe it's a post suicide mission issue. I've never had to do any paragon/renegade checks post sucide mission since I've always cleared all content before going for it.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Huh, I always do Zaeed's mission right after Garrus and Mordin on NG+, and I've always succeeded in persuading in that mission. I also completed all non-mission quests the moment I arrive at any hubs, so I've probably racked up all possible morality points at every single point, not to mention money.

In any case, when I first downloaded LotSB, I played it on my post-Collector base characters. None of them were able to charm/intimidate Tela. So I think any high difficulty persuade checks after the Collector base are screwed.

[sinosleep]

Yeah it looks it Tony Gunslinger. I just ran my max paragon post collector base infiltrator through LotSB and she was unable to charm Tela. First and only time I've ever ran across this issue.

Modifié par sinosleep, 05 octobre 2010 - 01:11 .

[Aimi]

I dunno, I've always been able to charm Vasir post-Collector Base. None of the files I did that on were NG+, though; all of them had max imported Paragon points from ME1.

[Kreid]

Well, there's another thing about Paragon/renegade points, based on your passive skill.

Even if you have the second passive skill i.e. Shock Trooper in Soldier (Paragon/Renegade+100%) you still accumulate points after you have a full bar (retrain powers and choose Commando and you see you'll probably won't have your bar maxed out) so maybe if you do have your bar completed using the first passive ability choice you can charm/intimidate in those last most hard choices.

[Gibb_Shepard]

LOL, you want to be evil but not be a jerk and kill anyone. Good luck with that.



My canon playthrough is mainly a paragon, but isn't all that merciful on criminals.



With my renegade that i'm doing at the moment, i just made his personality that of a man who doesn't want to take any risks, and wants to get the job done without anything stopping him. He's by no mean evil.

[Kaylord]

Creid, I can second your experience. When I played LotSB with my chars who already finished I was never able to use paragon or renegade options on Vasir (paragon full bar, renegade half bar). I now played a new sentinel and did LotSB in Illium after the normal quests there (paragon half bar, renegade 1/3 bar). Suddenly, I could use the paragon option. Even more peculiar; when I reloaded that part for trying out different dialogue options, suddenly also the renegade option was available.

I would really like to know about that mechanism. Right now I am doing a new soldier and I gave him via Gibbets editor 600 paragon and 800 renegade for the sake of being able to explore all dialogue options. I hope it works this way.

I hate it when your persuasion skills are linked to certain dialogue options... -.-

[thq95]

I always play as a mix of paragon and renegade, you won't get all the persuasion options (in ME2) but I find it to be funner to choose decisions that I want make and not what some morality bar wants me to make.

[Tokion]

thq95 wrote...

I always play as a mix of paragon and renegade, you won't get all the persuasion options (in ME2) but I find it to be funner to choose decisions that I want make and not what some morality bar wants me to make.

Actually if you metagame enough you can get all the persuasion unlocked in game, that is why Paragade is so fun.

This list will show how you can maximise your score, also it allows you to pick the "neutral dialogue" on the 3 o'clock  because the general concensus is that you will net no points by going neutral, but some of them reward para/renegade points too.

Modifié par Tokion, 05 octobre 2010 - 10:05 .

[Kreid]

Finally found it, here Kim Stolz  explains how the system works.

http://social.biowar...97668/3#1429364

There are potential paragon and renegade points throughout the game. When the user arrives in an area (ie: Omega) the game registers every single paragon or renegade decision that can be made and increases the difficulty of the persuade system based on these potential points. If the user collects all of these points (either paragon OR renegade) they break even they can almost never get ahead of the system, you can only keep apace. If the user misses these oppotunities to collect all of the points the game still keeps these points you missed so the player will actually fall behind. If the player falls behind it is very difficult and almost impossible to catch back up because everywhere you go more potential points are being mounted against you and making the persuasions more difficult. So when you arrive at the most difficult persuasions in the game where you are already at a disadvantage due to the difficulty of the persuade and these potential points that you missed stack up to make it even more difficult and then you try to paragon persuade jack and miranda which makes it even more difficult(it's easier to renegade persuade those two and paragon persuade legion and tali) you are going to fail it; not because it's a bug but because the system was made that way.

Modifié par Creid-X, 05 octobre 2010 - 11:02 .

[JockBuster]

k9medusa wrote...
 Next play, I am thinking about playing (ME1 / ME2) a Renegade, but how is the problem.  How can I be evil, but don't kill NPCs that will appear in ME2?
A related question, How can I be "evil" but not a jerk?

I do that all the time, just don't be stupid about it, but it takes a NG+ to accomplish it easily. I NEVER kill the Queen, Conrad, Wrex or some of the others even on my first play thru of ME1 (first play thru Lvl 1-57, NG+ 58-60 then import). In my FIRST play thru I kill EVERYONE possible just to get the Renegade bar full (with OUT cheating), I (usually) buy 4 Intimidate talent points = 8 total (1 for Spectre, 3 for filling the bar + the 4 I bought). I end the first ME1 game with 3 Charm & 8 Intimidate, that gives you most of the Renegade choices; then in game 2 it is easy to fill the bar for 3 more Intimidate + 1 Spectre = 12 max, then you get ALL the Renegade dialogue choices and 6 charm (NOT even close for those choices). I have done a couple of ME1 NG, NG+, NG++ without buying ANY Charm/Intimidate points just to get to the 12 Intimidate dialogue choices and 9 Charm.
In ME2 some of the BETTER (MORE Renegade) choices are NOT to do the RED choice but to do the lower RIGHT one; example, Jack's Loyalty when shooting Aresh.

[k9medusa]

Thanks for the tips. I try to keep them in mind. It seems the game was design for the player to max one or the other bars. It seems to be next to impossible to max put both bars in play around. Are people finish the game and re-import the same char into the game to gain more skills / points? Also, what does "NG+" means?