76 réponses à ce sujet

[KendallX23]

jlb524 wrote...

I think there's a big difference between a more Ruthless or Renegade Liara, and an Evil!Liara I kill small kittens for fun. The latter is ridiculous.

          a renegade Liara would be interesting...made for a change of char that honestly already started when SHep met her in ME2....
          the evil Liara kills kitten makes me laugh...but no...that i would not want to see

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

KendallX23 wrote...

          a renegade Liara would be interesting...made for a change of char that honestly already started when SHep met her in ME2....
          the evil Liara kills kitten makes me laugh...but no...that i would not want to see

Ultimativly this.

Being able to make Liara more renegade could be interesting, but it would have to be made carefully or else it would just seem contrived.

But a totally Evil!Liara? Only in a KOTOR meets ME game.

[jlb524]

The problem is that most that bring up the 'Evil!Liara' stuff don't clarify what they mean by 'evil' and just basically do it to troll.

I personally don't like the idea of the PC player having that much influence on a squad mate. In Jade Empire, I romanced Dawn Star once and turned her Closed Fist and I hated it. Same could be said with the Viconia romance in the Baldur's Gate series, except you're going the opposite way 'bad -> good'. Hated that too.

So, yeah, I wouldn't take the option to Renegade-up Liara if present. But if others want it, fine. I have two Shepards that romance her, one is a Paragade but the other is definitely quite Renegade, and even she wouldn't want to see 'Renegade/Ruthless Liara' occur.

Modifié par jlb524, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:45 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Didn't players have the option to turn Ashley/Kaidan more paragon/renegade if they were the players LI?



It was possible, but in the end it was optional.

[KendallX23]

jlb524 wrote...

The problem is that most that bring up the 'Evil!Liara' stuff don't clarify what they mean by 'evil' and just basically do it to troll.

I personally don't like the idea of the PC player having that much influence on a squad mate. In Jade Empire, I romanced Dawn Star once and turned her Closed Fist and I hated it. Same could be said with the Viconia romance in the Baldur's Gate series, except you're going the opposite way 'bad -> good'. Hated that too.

So, yeah, I wouldn't take the option to Renegade-up Liara if present. But if others want it, fine. I have two Shepards that romance her, one is a Paragade but the other is definitely quite Renegade, and even she wouldn't want to see 'Renegade/Ruthless Liara' occur.

         hey Viconia is the best romance in Baldur's gate....and u are not really changing her...her alignment change is litlle
         i have 2 chars with Liara as a LI...both are paragon...male and female SHepard...i doubt any of them would want that Liara turn renegade...but for story purpose would be interesting...the timing would be bad too..with the reapers coming...

[jlb524]

The timing wouldn't necessarily be bad...it all depends on what kind of change we are talking about. If Liara goes mad crazy evil and begins starting random wars for the lulz, then, yeah, the timing would be real bad. If she just adopts more ruthless methods in order to assist Shepard in the war, then no.





Again, there are differences between crazy dangerous evil and just the ruthlessness most Renegades possess.

[ratzerman]

kraidy1117 wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

i like the idea of Liara evil...why ?because it makes sense...power corrupts...and Liara already showed she has a darker side....
plus it would be more interesting this way...a redemption at the end of the game or something like that..

[kraidy1117]

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't players have the option to turn Ashley/Kaidan more paragon/renegade if they were the players LI?

It was possible, but in the end it was optional.

And it made no diffrence. They act the same way in ME2, just like Garrus. Liara is a strong woman and should not be a person who can be forced to change her views on things because of Shepard and his/her silver tongue.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:56 .

[KendallX23]

ok...enough with the star trek facepalm...they make me want to add them to my collection

but a ruthless Liara would make my Shep not trust her..even if she is doing it for Shepard...so...for my SHep story..it would make the relationship between them tense and more interesting with the coming war...Shepard could consider her tactics evil...so..here is the change

[fortunesque]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't players have the option to turn Ashley/Kaidan more paragon/renegade if they were the players LI?

It was possible, but in the end it was optional.

ANd it made no diffrence. They act the same way in ME2, just like Garrus. Liara is a strong woman and should not be a person who can be forced to change her views on things because of Shepard and his silver tongue.

And Ashley and Kaidan aren't strong people? They had a debate and thought about it and eventually agreed with Shepard. This isn't conning someone into anything; it's reaching an agreement.

[kraidy1117]

fortunesque wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't players have the option to turn Ashley/Kaidan more paragon/renegade if they were the players LI?

It was possible, but in the end it was optional.

ANd it made no diffrence. They act the same way in ME2, just like Garrus. Liara is a strong woman and should not be a person who can be forced to change her views on things because of Shepard and his silver tongue.

And Ashley and Kaidan aren't strong people? They had a debate and thought about it and eventually agreed with Shepard. This isn't conning someone into anything; it's reaching an agreement.

Ash and Kai where always conflicted. It also took a long time for them to fully agree with Shepard. This however means nothing because they act the same no matter what you did. I can't see them doing that with Liara in ME3 when nothing has even showen that Liara could be swayed to change her opinions on things, if she did we would have been able to do it already.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

The only way I that I can see Liara being "evil" in Mass Effect 3 if she is captured and brain washed by the Reapers.

[KendallX23]

Shavon wrote...

Discussions- do they even happen anymore? Between the I am only right, and the pic-only posts,

Right, well, unfortunately (I guess), Liara does have it in her to sway somewhat to a more ruthless person, with all the power and information at her fingertips. That is not a bad thing. At the same time, Paragon Shepards can sway her to a totally benevolent person of power, which isn't always the most effective, and I am not sure she'll be able to remain SB, without getting her hands firty from time to time . . .

My point is, Liara is very capable of seeing a goal through to the end, indicating she may end up a bit more ruthless and neutral than her sweet, ultra-paragon self in ME1

That doesn't mean she would be suffering a complete personality change

           and here is where my main SHepard would have something against....the end does not justify the means for him...so if Liara would do something like killing to get information..he would have a problem

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Didn't players have the option to turn Ashley/Kaidan more paragon/renegade if they were the players LI?

It was possible, but in the end it was optional.

ANd it made no diffrence. They act the same way in ME2, just like Garrus. Liara is a strong woman and should not be a person who can be forced to change her views on things because of Shepard and his silver tongue.

I disliked how you could turn the VS viewpoints on things, but that was more due to how random and out-of-nowhere it felt, and the fact that such a change with these characters shouldn't happen in the first part of a trilogy.

But as much as I like to joke aboit Evil!Liara, I will stand by this statement.

Having Liara adopt a slightly more pragmatic/ruthless aproach in order to assist Shepard COULD be interesting. But it would have to be written extremely carefull, or else it will just seem stupid and contrived. And it would have to be optional, not something that just happens because your renegade meter was higher than your paragon.

Disclaimer: When I mean pragmatic/ruthless, I DON'T mean "evil saturday morning cartoon villain who plots world-domination".

[fortunesque]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Ash and Kai where always conflicted. It also took a long time for them to fully agree with Shepard. This however means nothing because they act the same no matter what you did. I can't see them doing that with Liara in ME3 when nothing has even showen that Liara could be swayed to change her opinions on things, if she did we would have been able to do it already.

No, they weren't conflicted. They were set in their ways until Shepard showed them a different point of view. It means nothing because the devs were completely lazy in carrying over renegade and paragon decisions about squadmates. 

This isn't a matter of someone being a 'strong person' or an 'individual'. People end up changing their world views a few times in their lives. Things change; people get more information, experience more things and have people that they trust and care about give them a different perspective. People change all the time.

Again, why does it ****** some people off so much that others want the option to change Liara's mind? It's absolutely ridiculous and childish. It's like they see the character one way and would absolutely die if someone dared to think of wanting the option to mix things up.

[ratzerman]

Shavon wrote...

Discussions- do they even happen anymore? Between the I am only right, and the pic-only posts,

Sorry... I saw a DS9 facepalm, and had to counter with my own! You understand, right?

Anyway... I don't see the harm in being able to sway Liara one way or the other. I doubt it will actually happen in ME3, though. The way she accepted the role of SB, not being able to talk her out of it, makes me think the devs have a very specific role for her in mind for the third game.

Modifié par ratzerman, 04 octobre 2010 - 06:13 .

[KendallX23]

renegade Liara is "evil" Liara..depending on your Shepard morality and view on things

[Tugga_gott]

I agree that "good or evil" maybe isn't the best, but english isn't my primary language (you maybe can tell) so sometimes I doesn't finds right words...