76 réponses à ce sujet

[Mora1970]

Evil Liara...nooooooo! Maybe a little corrupted by power as being the Shadow Broker but evil, no way, no day. I might be a little childish but I like happy endings. If I want unhappy endings there are the news in TV for that.

[Gibb_Shepard]

who the hell would wanna see evil liara? She's too good to be evil...

[GodWood]

I'd love a moustache twirling Liara.

[jlb524]

TBH, Liara's already a bit more ruthless than she was before. Of course, she's still no where near Zaeed or Renegade Shepard on the 'Ruthless Scale'. I can see the player possibly being able to influence her to be even a bit more ruthless/renegade, but full on evil/mad with power/corrupted/wanting to take over the galaxy? Nah.

Modifié par jlb524, 05 octobre 2010 - 02:26 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Hmm, I'd hoped for a moment that the OP typoed "Evel" and was advocating Liara at some point jump through a dozen flaming rings on a speeding motorbike whilst pryotechnic desplays went off all around her in ME3.

That would be something to see.

[brfritos]

mashavasilec wrote...

well then, why are we often arguing over how much Shepard's magic genitalia change ME2 squadmates ('tis Jack i'm talking about, yes)?

if in ME3 Liara can be influenced by Shepard i am starting a crusade to eliminate all those who doubted Jack's romance path. get your hands off magic penis

Good point, I always have a big trouble being able to date Jack as a male but not a female, when she clearly indicates being bisexual.
And Renegade/Paragon never had to do with bad/good, evil/saint or whatever, Bioware fail hard on this in ME2.

I've always wanted to influence people behaviour since the first game, we as society always copy or are influenced by the behavior or opinions of another person or group.
And besides being able to do with Garrus doesn't made ANY difference in the game, wich is lame.

So in ME2 it doesen't made any difference, but in ME3 will?
Well, another coherence by the window.

[theelementslayer]

Ill stand by Liara no matter what she does, the poor girls been through enough so Ill stand by here even if she is evil

[KendallX23]

theelementslayer wrote...

Ill stand by Liara no matter what she does, the poor girls been through enough so Ill stand by here even if she is evil

       besides Shepard...what exactly has she been through ?i mean compared to characters like Kaidan,Jack,Samara or even Miranda
       she only had it bad when she lost Shepard...she got over her mothers death quite fast...and the Feron thing was weird...asari must make bonds really quick...
      i always tought Liara was mom's litlle girl..just a bit nicer

[DarthCaine]

In ME1 she was a boring nerd

In ME2 she was an obsessed b!tch

In LOTSB she was just right IMO

[Clover Rider]

DarthCaine wrote...

In ME1 she was a boring nerd
In ME2 she was an obsessed b!tch
In LOTSB she was just right IMO

This.

[jlb524]

theelementslayer wrote...

Ill stand by Liara no matter what she does, the poor girls been through enough so Ill stand by here even if she is evil

Bravo!  Well, said, but I don't think you'll have to worry about her going 'evil'.  Just more Renegade.

[only1sgop]

Some Geth wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

In ME1 she was a boring nerd
In ME2 she was an obsessed b!tch
In LOTSB she was just right IMO

This.

I'm gonna put a bullet into her if she don't act right in ME3.

[jlb524]

WUT?

[KendallX23]

jlb524 wrote...

WUT?

  don't mind them...they are very tired

[GodWood]

Thats even more funny if he's a Liaramancer.

[Matterialize]

She was clearly tempted by the new power at her command, but.. she already HAS power. She's basically already conquered the civilized galaxy, what reason could she have to turn bad? She got her revenge, she's in one of the biggest seats of power there is, and her only ambition is to help Shepard stop the reapers.



I just don't see her being evil or even renegade, it doesn't make sense to me. I think it would really clash with her character and be an unnecessary attempt by Bioware to make her "interesting" to naysayers.

[Snowship]

Don't get hung up by the Evil terminology, you'll use it as a red herring and avoid the real issue.

Namely that she cannot have her fingers in the universes biggest pie of corruption and not get stained.. no if's but's or maybes.

a: all the operations the old SB had going will stain her, either inadvertantly or not
(operative finishes his/her mission WITHOUT getting liara's "drop me a report" command [maybe their deep undercover], said missions outcomes like it or not will be under "her command", no-one knows about the change of command, so that politician that was killed/imtimidated whatever etc will be HER doing as far as anyone knows)

b: Having power over groups/politicians etc will have an effect, if she doesn't want something to happen (and maybe it should) then her commands will have consequences, then fixing up after stuff ups will have consequences too.

c: If she drastically changes the way her operatives work, it'll be a nice neon sign that there has been a change in SB. Some operatives might not like where she takes them (if against what they did before and liked).
So then she has to look out for people gunning for her position. "well then kill them off" <- that's not exactly a good point of view

d: "we'll be around to keep her on the straight and narrow"
LOL, Shepards only seen Liara at most 5 times in 2 years (2 x recruit plots and 2 x liara specific missions, + LotSB
Who says in the intervening time between ME2 & 3, plus during ME3 you'll be seeing her even/any more?
You may not BE there to keep her on the straight and narrow*

e: She may have been a information broker on Illium, but that's a big difference from the SB operations. Plus as noted in the very 1st cut-scene for her, she's not above threats and intimidation already (which is a far cry from how she was in ME). So she's already taking her 1st steps down the path to corruption

f: "Power Corrputs & Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" & "The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions" are sayings for a reason; they're almost always true. #


To me having her in charge of the SB operations and not having it effect her is unnatural and bad writing.
There is supposed to be consequences of actions and for her to run such an organisation and not be influenced by it, is quite frankly BS and wishful thinking.

Remember though, her being corrupt doesn't mean she can't be redeemed. (if your shepard so chooses)




*obviously this depends upon how the Bioware writers make the plot
# "oh but she's a special case"... pffft that's demeaning to her, allow her to walk on her own two feet and make mistakes, that's what beings do... Mistakes are what make a person! [rather than a cardboard cut-out]

Note: I'm in no way against/hate/whatever Liara, but I like that she has the potential to do bad things and make mistakes, it makes her MORE of a well/writen / rounded character
I'd hate to see her just a goody goody all the time becoming a teflon person where no mud sticks

Modifié par Snowship, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:32 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Snowship wrote...

Don't get hung up by the Evil terminology, you'll use it as a red herring and avoid the real issue.

Namely that she cannot have her fingers in the universes biggest pie of corruption and not get stained.. no if's but's or maybes.

a: all the operations the old SB had going will stain her, either inadvertantly or not
(operative finishes his/her mission WITHOUT getting liara's "drop me a report" command [maybe their deep undercover], said missions outcomes like it or not will be under "her command", no-one knows about the change of command, so that politician that was killed/imtimidated whatever etc will be HER doing as far as anyone knows)

b: Having power over groups/politicians etc will have an effect, if she doesn't want something to happen (and maybe it should) then her commands will have consequences, then fixing up after stuff ups will have consequences too.

c: If she drastically changes the way her operatives work, it'll be a nice neon sign that there has been a change in SB. Some operatives might not like where she takes them (if against what they did before and liked).
So then she has to look out for people gunning for her position. "well then kill them off" <- that's not exactly a good point of view

d: "we'll be around to keep her on the straight and narrow"
LOL, Shepards only seen Liara at most 5 times in 2 years (2 x recruit plots and 2 x liara specific missions, + LotSB
Who says in the intervening time between ME2 & 3, plus during ME3 you'll be seeing her even/any more?
You may not BE there to keep her on the straight and narrow*

e: She may have been a information broker on Illium, but that's a big difference from the SB operations. Plus as noted in the very 1st cut-scene for her, she's not above threats and intimidation already (which is a far cry from how she was in ME). So she's already taking her 1st steps down the path to corruption

f: "Power Corrputs & Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" & "The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions" are sayings for a reason; they're almost always true. #


To me having her in charge of the SB operations and not having it effect her is unnatural and bad writing.
There is supposed to be consequences of actions and for her to run such an organisation and not be influenced by it, is quite frankly BS and wishful thinking.

Remember though, her being corrupt doesn't mean she can't be redeemed. (if your shepard so chooses)




*obviously this depends upon how the Bioware writers make the plot
# "oh but she's a special case"... pffft that's demeaning to her, allow her to walk on her own two feet and make mistakes, that's what beings do... Mistakes are what make a person! [rather than a cardboard cut-out]

Note: I'm in no way against/hate/whatever Liara, but I like that she has the potential to do bad things and make mistakes, it makes her MORE of a well/writen / rounded character
I'd hate to see her just a goody goody all the time becoming a teflon person where no mud sticks

I'm cool with that, even though i think it would be out of character for her. BUT!!!!! A massive BUT, she has to be able to be redeemed. If shepard chooses, there needs to be an option that allows you to persuade her back to her old ways, maybe even destroy the SB base.

It would be bad writing if she inevitably becomes evil, and goes down that path canonically. 

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 05 octobre 2010 - 06:41 .

[Snowship]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I'm cool with that, even though i think it would be out of character for her. BUT!!!!! A massive BUT, she has to be able to be redeemed. If shepard chooses, there needs to be an option that allows you to persuade her back to her old ways, maybe even destroy the SB base.

It would be bad writing if she inevitably becomes evil, and goes down that path canonically. 

I agree there should be the option for redeeming her... if you descide to do it and if it works are another thing, but the choice should be there.

Personally I don't like the term EVIL, people don't use it with proper
meaning, they tend to water it down [like ppl use the word HATE, hate is
a very powerful emotion, and not for using "I HATE cabbage"... etc]
Thus I'm not saying she's evil or will become evil (imo corruption isn't evil, evil is what you can do with it)

[KendallX23]

she has a common goal now..to help Shepard stop the Reapers...what happens after that ?when there is no more final goal u tend to get involve in other business....she won't quit beeiing a SB..why would she when she believes she holds the whole world in her hands...and SHep who did not romance her won't be there for her all the time...i say unless something huge happens in ME3..Liara will surely go on a darker path....(this would only apply for non romanced Liara)

[Foolsfolly]

Why does she have to be redeemed? Her father is half krogan and violent. Her mother became a sociopath and a pawn for unspeakable horror.



In ME2 and LotSB she's a focused, driven, and nigh unstoppable force. And now that force is aimed directly at the Reapers.



She went from being boring, innocent, and way too love sick with Shepard into the most interesting character in the series. LotSB left her in an interesting place at a cost; and most interesting of all it's a cost and choice that Shepard didn't make. Shepard finally isn't this omnipotent being single-handedly sculpting the universe. Liara complained about being rescued and dependent on Shepard and now she's stepped out of Shepard's shadow. It hast to be her choice and not Shepard's otherwise she has no character growth. She's just that same little girl stuck in a bubble waiting for Shepard to fight and choose what's good for her.

[Matterialize]

KendallX23 wrote...
..Liara will surely go on a darker path....

But why?

Most evil characters have some sort of goal they want to achieve, right? It's usually something like power, wealth, or revenge. Liara already got her revenge, has access to all of the Broker's resources and is now one of the most powerful people in the galaxy. She's already at the top, there's nothing more for her to gain, no motivation for her to even do unscrupulous deeds in the first place. The only thing left for her to do is use her power to help stop the Reapers.

Even the previous Broker was just a neutral party, doing what was necessary to keep its network secure. (though Yahg are kind of an unfair comparison)

[KendallX23]

Matterialize wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...
..Liara will surely go on a darker path....

But why?

Most evil characters have some sort of goal they want to achieve, right? It's usually something like power, wealth, or revenge. Liara already got her revenge, has access to all of the Broker's resources and is now one of the most powerful people in the galaxy. She's already at the top, there's nothing more for her to gain, no motivation for her to even do unscrupulous deeds in the first place. The only thing left for her to do is use her power to help stop the Reapers.

Even the previous Broker was just a neutral party, doing what was necessary to keep its network secure. (though Yahg are kind of an unfair comparison)

            as i said what happens after the Reapers are defeated..Liara will hav enothing to do...don't tell me she will quit beeing a SB ?she is at the top in information...but there is always more...who knows what she can think of....previous SB were neutral...but i don't see Liara beeing one...

[Matterialize]

She did say she was going to turn the SB organization around. I think it's more likely that she'll eventually dissolve it and just do something else.



Still got her whole life ahead of her, after all.

[Nhani]

I might've skimmed a little too much and might've missed it.. but my standing impression is that this thread seem to touch a fair bit on the various presentations of Liara.. but not really the why of them?

Sure, people throw out the old adage "power corrupts" quite happily, but I don't see it - Liara isn't a case of power corrupts, far more a case of "purpose corrupts". It wasn't the information trade that took her down a path so much as what her goal was, and what her feelings were.

She was led around by guilt, loss and vengeance - of course she took a darker turn - those are some pretty dark emotions to be led around by. I can't really see Liara being a case of alignment choice so much as a case of what situations she ends up in. She does have (and always had) a pragmatic streak to her, but at the same time she's generally good-natured unless prompted otherwise.

I don't really see it as a good/evil or paragon/renegade thing - for me it's entirely what situations she ends up in; given the time and space to turn around the Shadow Broker organization for the better, she definitely will. Of course, at the same time she'd likely also sacrifice entire planets to protect those precious to her, if necessary - and that's really your dark side, right there.

To sum up, I don't see it as a kind of choice or twist or any of that - for me it's entirely to the situation and how she reacts by her character. If you put her in a situation where she has to kick a puppy across the street to protect those she loves, she will - she won't enjoy it, and will likely privately agonize over it, but she'll do it in a heartbeat. At the same time, she's not going to take that turn unless she's put in a situation where she has to.