143 réponses à ce sujet

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Is there any word on whether or not there will be a respec options integrated into the DA2 from the beginning?

[AnimaTempli101]

Eh? You mean like in Awakening? I hope not. That seemed too....easy.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

[Doyle41]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

I would have to agree. I would personally like to see this option in the game.

[AnimaTempli101]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

Essentially in Awakening you could buy these things called Manuals of Focus. They re-set your character, giving you all your attribute, talent and skill points back, which you could then re-assign. As I said, it was too easy. If something didn't work you could just buy one and eventually end up with a god character. 

[Wulfram]

I like it as a cheat code, I'm not fond of it as a normal part of the game

[Doyle41]

Wulfram wrote...

I like it as a cheat code, I'm not fond of it as a normal part of the game

You've got to also take into account that some people play the game on easy level. Playing the game for the story and interaction first. Maybe if you play on hard or nightmare levels, the manuals couldn't be purchased as an option. Or, you could just not respec your own character.

[Bobad]

I'd support this, especially if companions are auto levelled before they join you.

[Ayanko]

...what

[Ulicus]

Bobad wrote...

I'd support this, especially if companions are auto levelled before they join you.

Me too... though I'd much rather companions weren't auto levelled.

Zevran: I'm awesome at picking locks!
Warden: Sweet!
*Zevran joins party*
Warden: You lied.
Zevran: "Awesome" is contextual, no?



I shouldn't have to pay to spec. my companions the first time.

Modifié par Ulicus, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:22 .

[ViSeiRa]

Yes, though at my first playthroughs I never made a particularly bad build I still wanted to adjust a few things and couldn't, that was a time when there was no mods yet, also if companions are as Origins, then picking people like Oghren at the very end of the playthrough didn't leave much room for re-spec because I already had Sten as a two hander, Alistair as a sword and shield, maybe I'd have made Oghren a duel wielder but he was already like level 17 or something.....



Bottom line, I'd like to see a respec option in game, but not so easy as to buy something, maybe a magical rirtual that uses a lot of lyrium thus costs much money, or even a little side-quest..... if not then we can always hope for a toolset release.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Respec tomes in Awakening made sense. By the time you complete the Origins, chances are you gained more skill/talent points than you knew what to do with and invested your spare points in skills and talents of relatively little consequence. Awakening, however, introduced useful new skills and talents which you'd like to trade your less useful ones for. I didn't feel bad taking back the points I put in Survival earlier and spending them on Vitality or Clarity.

In the case of DA2, on the other hand, manual leveling whenever we recruit a new companion would be nicer instead of respec tomes. KoTOR style.

[marshalleck]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

Essentially in Awakening you could buy these things called Manuals of Focus. They re-set your character, giving you all your attribute, talent and skill points back, which you could then re-assign. As I said, it was too easy. If something didn't work you could just buy one and eventually end up with a god character. 

God forbid players should have a character they aren't completely frustrated with to the point of wanting to start the game over from the beginning. This is 2010, there's no reason to have to be locked into a character you've discovered is crap because some skill is broken or the tooltip descriptions of talents are unclear. 

If you think the tomes cheapen the game, don't use them. Simple as that. It's not like some min-maxed Hawke is going to come into your single-player game and beat up your gimp Hawke. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 04 octobre 2010 - 05:41 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I oppose any respec option that lacks an in-game justification that suits the setting's lore.

The coherence of the setting trumps everything.

[svendigo]

Respec should come with a greater drawback than a few gold and a few minutes cooldown. It is necessary, but it can't be too easy. Leave insta-respecs for games like WoW, where the mentality of players can be summed up in 'now, now, NOW.'

[JrayM16]

I fully support partial respecs, as in you can undo some of your more recent decisions.

[DMC12]

marshalleck wrote...

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

Essentially in Awakening you could buy these things called Manuals of Focus. They re-set your character, giving you all your attribute, talent and skill points back, which you could then re-assign. As I said, it was too easy. If something didn't work you could just buy one and eventually end up with a god character. 

God forbid players should have a character they aren't completely frustrated with to the point of wanting to start the game over from the beginning. This is 2010, there's no reason to have to be locked into a character you've discovered is crap because some skill is broken or the tooltip descriptions of talents are unclear. 

If you think the tomes cheapen the game, don't use them. Simple as that. It's not like some min-maxed Hawke is going to come into your single-player game and beat up your gimp Hawke. 

^ This. Without tomes, I wouldn't have had the levels needed to fill up my character's tertiary class, and would have had to had deal with some useless talents/skills in a tree that I didn't use when I played through Awakening.

Also, you reminded me of Demon's Souls, where you can be doing your thing in the main story, when all of a sudden some D-bag with PvP armor/weapons/skills invades your game and tries to own your character. That was some bull**** that made me play the game offline. That game also did not have a respec system, so you were screwed in online mode if you were just casually playing.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I oppose any respec option that lacks an in-game justification that suits the setting's lore.
The coherence of the setting trumps everything.

Your post reminds me of a buddy of mine when I used to blaze (I quit a long time ago). He would always want us all to have his high, when we really didn't find it that awesome. Play it your way, but let the rest of us have our fun in our own way too. Hopefully Bioware will implement the respec option from Awakening, like what they did with stamina potions (I remember them apparently being in DA2 from one preview).

[Sylvius the Mad]

DMC12 wrote...

Your post reminds me of a buddy of mine when I used to blaze (I quit a long time ago). He would always want us all to have his high, when we really didn't find it that awesome. Play it your way, but let the rest of us have our fun in our own way too. Hopefully Bioware will implement the respec option from Awakening, like what they did with stamina potions (I remember them apparently being in DA2 from one preview).

No design decision is made in isolation.

If the respec option is available, then the game's design needs to take it into account.

Look at DAO.  There were some talents that weren't very useful, but they were prereqs for talents that were.  A respec option allows you to take a different, actually useful talent, and then once you have the extra point you can respec to undo that last talent and add the prereq plus the top-notch talent.

That would make the game easier at low levels (you could maximise your build for each talent point total), and thus change the balance.

[PsyrenY]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

If something didn't work you could just buy one and eventually end up with a god character. 

The people who want "god characters" will find a way to do it. They will archive saves at each level up just to try various combinations. They will watch dps comparisons on youtube, and debate the results on forums. They will edit the .ini files to read multipliers, or download mods to respec anyway. They will play through half the game with a pile of talent points uninvested just so they can do it later and do it "right."

Disabling respec does not hurt these people. It hurts the ones who don't have time to live on Gamefaqs or dig through wikis in search of the simple answer "is X better than Y?" You end up punishing those people for not knowing the mechanics inside out by forcing them to stick with subpar choices till their character's dying day. That, or restart the whole game, which they likely don't have time to do either.

In short, no u.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 04 octobre 2010 - 08:00 .

[AnimaTempli101]

marshalleck wrote...

AnimaTempli101 wrote...

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

Essentially in Awakening you could buy these things called Manuals of Focus. They re-set your character, giving you all your attribute, talent and skill points back, which you could then re-assign. As I said, it was too easy. If something didn't work you could just buy one and eventually end up with a god character. 

God forbid players should have a character they aren't completely frustrated with to the point of wanting to start the game over from the beginning. This is 2010, there's no reason to have to be locked into a character you've discovered is crap because some skill is broken or the tooltip descriptions of talents are unclear. 

If you think the tomes cheapen the game, don't use them. Simple as that. It's not like some min-maxed Hawke is going to come into your single-player game and beat up your gimp Hawke. 

Hey just because I don't like using them as to me it's too easy doesn't give you the right to harangue me. I just gave my opinion, you could have said "I don't agree with that, it's 2010 we should have a way to change our characters." But no, you had to go on the offensive. 

[SteveGarbage]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I haven't played Awakening. But in a level-based game with talent trees, it can be frustrating to find that choices that weren't obvious 12 levels ago are now hamstringing your character.

We all make mistakes. Part of the fun of playing a game is *not* getting everything right the first time around. Live and learn. My first play through I didn't have a mage with Mana Clash so mages continually ripped me up. Then when I learned how awesome that spell is it made future playthroughs easier. Same thing goes for discovering how underpowered archery is in Origins.

[Sylvius the Mad]

SteveGarbage wrote...

We all make mistakes. Part of the fun of playing a game is *not* getting everything right the first time around. Live and learn.

I would argue that the fun is in the learning.  If DAO had a problem it was that it was so poorly documented that you could make these mistakes.

[PsyrenY]

SteveGarbage wrote...

We all make mistakes. Part of the fun of playing a game is *not* getting everything right the first time around.

Part of your fun, you mean. Many of the rest of us regretted that wasted point in Earthquake, or Stinging Swarm.

And if Bioware disagreed that respeccing was fun, they wouldn't have made it part of ME2 and DA:A. Oh, they might withhold it until an expansion or DLC, but that is still an endorsement of its value.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm not claiming it's not fun.

I'm claiming it's stupid.

[LadyJaneGrey]

OP: I have not heard anything one way or another.

There are good reasons both to include or to exclude a respec ability. Personally, having a respec option would make my life easier.  I'm reasonably competent at decoding what different abilities/attributes will do and make fairly good choices, but my spouse is clueless.  I either have to give him advice about what to do for each character and the party (every level) or watch him restart the game for the sixth time.  I love him dearly...but that gets old fast.