143 réponses à ce sujet

[JrayM16]

JrayM16 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Then perhaps a compromise.  Limited amounts of respecs.  Thus, the respec could not be used to twink a character, but instead would be used to get rid of a bad talent that turned out to be lame for one's character build.

We already have that.

It's called Reload.

Now that's just mean. 

And anyway by your logic reloads would have the same effect on game design. 

[marshalleck]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Choice is good.

Then you agree we should have the choice to respec. Aren't you always going on and on about how options are good? Why, yes! Yes, you are.

[JrayM16]

marshalleck wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Choice is good.

Then you agree we should have the choice to respec. Aren't you always going on and on about how options are good? Why, yes! Yes, you are.

Allow me to take that even further.  Sylvius, you aren't so much concerned with choice as you are with your choice. 

[AlanC9]

Without presuming to speak for Sylvius, there's a difference between adding more options for a player and adding more options for the player's character.

[aznsoisauce]

I'm for respeccing in such a way where you can only reassign points for attacks and abilities, but not for attributes. To me, that would at least make sense. As in Hawke decides that s/he doesn't like dual-wielding weapons as much as attacking from afar with a ranged weapon. However, the player shouldn't be able to reassign points that they had put into an attribute like wisdom into...I dunno, strength or something. That's just broken. 

"Hey, Hawke. Didn't you used to be...smarter?"
"Uh, use it or lose it?"

Edit: Ellipses will be the death of me.

Modifié par aznsoisauce, 04 octobre 2010 - 10:56 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

JrayM16 wrote...

And anyway by your logic reloads would have the same effect on game design. 

Needing to replay large swaths of the game to take advantage of the reload is a sufficiently large barrier to limit exploitation.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maverick827 wrote...

If you have too many talents that are "required" because they are simply better than others (Mana Clash, Crushing Prison, Blood Wound, etc.) then there is no reason to take others. Hence, no real choice.

So then they should make the talent trees long enough that you can't have all of those spells at the same time.

[JrayM16]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

And anyway by your logic reloads would have the same effect on game design. 

Needing to replay large swaths of the game to take advantage of the reload is a sufficiently large barrier to limit exploitation.

Then why would you be opposed to respecs if similar barriers were put up to limit their exploitation?(which is what I was sugesting.)

[Sylvius the Mad]

JrayM16 wrote...

Then why would you be opposed to respecs if similar barriers were put up to limit their exploitation?(which is what I was sugesting.)

Then my only objection would be one of lore.  But in a world of magic that should be a fairly easy problem to fix.

[JrayM16]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Then why would you be opposed to respecs if similar barriers were put up to limit their exploitation?(which is what I was sugesting.)

Then my only objection would be one of lore.  But in a world of magic that should be a fairly easy problem to fix.

So, if my theory of respecs were to be the case, are we in agreement?

[Meltemph]

No, I don't think respecs should be in. It takes away from the point of specs in the 1st place, and with multiple characters at your disposal, you should be able to be set-up for any situation, and encourages you to use multiple characters). It adds replay value to the game, to me, and gives you a reason to play the same class, but in a different way. If you can respec on the fly even though I can ignore it(which I would) it would still take away from the point, imo. Very limited respecs would be an acceptable compromise, but I would prefer not to have it.

Modifié par Meltemph, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:26 .

[aznsoisauce]

Additionally, without a respec of abilities, the player is sometimes forced to bring companions it would be foolish not to take into battle rather than companions the player actually wanted to bring.

[Meltemph]

the player is sometimes forced to bring companions it would be foolish not to take

So are you saying that a lack of a respec is a good thing or bad thing?

Modifié par Meltemph, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:40 .

[ErichHartmann]

I personally don't use respec. I live with the choices I make and run with it. You should have a balanced party anyway to pick up slack.

[Maverick827]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Additionally, without a respec of abilities, the player is sometimes forced to bring companions it would be foolish not to take into battle rather than companions the player actually wanted to bring.

But choice is a bad thing, except when naysayers want it to be a good thing.

[aznsoisauce]

Meltemph wrote...

the player is sometimes forced to bring companions it would be foolish not to take

So are you saying that a lack of a respec is a good thing or bad thing?

From a roleplaying standpoint, lack of respeccing abilities (but not attributes) is a bad thing. As far as gameplay is concerned? Then the option to respec is an unnecessary luxury.

[Meltemph]

From a roleplaying standpoint, lack of respeccing abilities (but not attributes) is a bad thing. As far as gameplay is concerned? Then the option to respec is an unnecessary luxury.

As for a role-playing standpoint, I think it is very preference based, but as for a game-play aspect, I think it hurts it. I guess that is another opinion based solely on perspective.

Modifié par Meltemph, 04 octobre 2010 - 11:51 .

[Xewaka]

I'd rather be able to configure the NPCs at the start. If I mess up the spec, it's my fault and I'll deal with it. If they come pre-messed, then the error is forced on me and thus annoying.

[JeCy108]

this isnt an MMO,,  the game can be finished with skipping dialoge in basically a single day..  

no need for respec..  Start a new game..

[Meltemph]

I do understand the desire for a respec however. To some, the ability to experiment with builds mid-game is fun for some people and also with what Xewaka said, but to me, the cons outweigh the pros in this respect. Like I said though, I would be fine with a compromise, but I would want it to be a strict system.

[PsyrenY]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I can't believe you still don't get it.

Each encounter is designed to produce a specific level of challenge of the player.  If the player is expected to have an optimised build at all times, the encounter's design will need to be less forgiving in order to achieve that challenge level.  If the player is not expected to have an optimised build at all times, the encounter will need to be more forgiving to produce that challenge level.

Do you honestly not understand?

So Mass Effect 2 and Awakening were also "less forgiving" because of their respec options, right?

Do you have anything backing up your point of view besides wild claims?

[aznsoisauce]

Replayability is one thing, but having to replay because you were unsatisfied with your initial choices in abilities just does not sound like a "pro" to me.

But I guess I'm visualizing the option as something you come across, like a companion or an npc asking you if you'd rather learn to dual wield weapons than keep using a shield-weapon combo. That's probably why I don't see it as a big deal.

[Meltemph]

Replayability is one thing, but having to replay because you were unsatisfied with your initial choices in abilities just does not sound like a "pro" to me.

I'm not saying it is pro, I just think that if you have the ability to reset the choices you made in the game(be it mechanical, ability, or otherwise) it takes away the point of those choices; to the point of hurting replay-ability. Now I understand if you "screw your character up" it can ruin your experience, which is why I said, I am fine with a compromise(very limited respecs, honestly I wouldn't be angry if they allowed respecs whenever, either, just disappointed).



I just think it gives more "reason" to replay the game as the same class from start to finish, but with a different take.

But I guess I'm visualizing the option as something you come across, like a companion or an npc asking you if you'd rather learn to dual wield weapons than keep using a shield-weapon combo. That's probably why I don't see it as a big deal.

Ya, I understand that pov, but I just look at it as if I committed to a certain way of training, unless there is a major flaw in it, I would not about to be willing to change everything I've worked for my whole life, so to speak.



It is not a game changer at all to me though, so I'm not adversely against it, I just prefer not to even have it(waste time working on it).

[andar91]

I would like an option for this, but only if the companions are auto-leveled when you get them like in Origins. I still say an ideal system (for me, obviously) is where they come a couple levels below you and you take them all the way up to you manually (if you want to). I realize it doesn't make much sense as far as Dragon Age lore goes, but I think it's extremely nice as a gameplay device. And ultimately, I'd rather have it in than out.

[Ryuukishi]

 Respec should definitely be in.
All you guys saying it's not realistic or justified by the game's lore probably never use the pause function, right? Right?